Romey 1878 Posted November 20, 2023 Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 London Blue and dunlopp9987 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted November 20, 2023 Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 8 hours ago, Palfy said: I think what we are going to find is any team that was relegated in one of the 3 combined years of us exceeding the combined 105 million allowed is going to look at the options of suing us for compensation. Also to add to our woes there is a distinct possibility that we will be charged with breaking FFP rules again in January, when a draft set of accounts for 22-23 have to be submitted by the end of December and will be linked to the previous 2 years and if combined they exceed 105 million allowed we will face another charge of breaching FFP rules, and all the indications are that the draft set of accounts may not be low enough to wipe out the previous 2 years of losses. Ever get the feeling that the PL and half a dozen current and ex PL teams don’t want us around anymore. From what I've read we will be fine once the first year on record rolls off as those losses were 100M+. 2021/22 was (45m), 22/23 was projected to be net zero. So we still have one big year contributing but that would still have all the adjustments allowed. I think we will be fine....going forward. Romey 1878, Matt and Newty82 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodison Glory Posted November 20, 2023 Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 26 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Did they win any of those EFL cases (genuine question) edit: disregard. I misread it. They actually represented the league. That sounds better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted November 20, 2023 Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: Looking at it from a pure numbers perspective, one incident alone could be said to have caused this situation: recruiting Gylfi Sigurdsson. Of course, we can say the same about choosing to work with Usmanov, but I think the Gylfi situation puts the whole thing into perspective. Should a club face such a punishment over the mistaken hire of one player? Not sure what you mean about the Gylfi signing. Maybe missing something, except we paid over the odds for the return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Gwlad said: Not sure what you mean about the Gylfi signing. Maybe missing something, except we paid over the odds for the return. We paid for him about the amount we're assessed to have exceeded the limit averaged over 3 years. Given the accusation made against him, his value dropped to zero - we lost the lot, plus his salary. In our submission to the league, we included this as an example of extenuating circumstances. Matt and Gwlad 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-points-deduction-fears-further-28143023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 10 hours ago, MikeO said: Serves me right for posting that late at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patto Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 Regarding the 10 points I didn’t want an appeal and I don’t want a suspension as Ian Byrne is suggesting I just want to accept it this season and get it out the way. if it moves to a future season we would probably be relegated. duncanmckenzieismagic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 https://www.goodisonnews.com/2023/11/21/eight-mps-sign-parliamentary-motion-to-suspend-grossly-unjust-everton-points-deduction-as-extraordinary-arguments-ignored/ Romey 1878, dunlopp9987, StevO and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 3 hours ago, patto said: Regarding the 10 points I didn’t want an appeal and I don’t want a suspension as Ian Byrne is suggesting I just want to accept it this season and get it out the way. if it moves to a future season we would probably be relegated. I know what you mean but we need to fight the principle of the matter rather than the 10 points, not just for our name but for the good of the sport. StevO, MikeO, Romey 1878 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RuffRob Posted November 21, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Matt said: I know what you mean but we need to fight the principle of the matter rather than the 10 points, not just for our name but for the good of the sport. I agree, given the magnitude of the punishment, I want clarity of the 'crime', clarity on why our clubs arguments are not being upheld, and clarity on how the 10 point punishment has been calculated. This biggest problem is the whole rule book, review process and system of punishment is simply too wishy washy and off the cuff. This past three or four days, been hearing this, that and the other opinions of what is right, wrong, just and injust - problem being nobody fucking knows!!!! Premier League have come up with this FFP rule book, but seem to have put no real effort in about how it will be policed etc. Simply making it up as we go along is a fucking shambles and not acceptable. The call now has to be for an independant regulator over the Premier League. They are simply not fit to police themsleves with out undue bias to certain selection of clubs. Matt, Romey 1878, StevO and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matt Posted November 21, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, RuffRob said: I agree, given the magnitude of the punishment, I want clarity of the 'crime', clarity on why our clubs arguments are not being upheld, and clarity on how the 10 point punishment has been calculated. This biggest problem is the whole rule book, review process and system of punishment is simply too wishy washy and off the cuff. This past three or four days, been hearing this, that and the other opinions of what is right, wrong, just and injust - problem being nobody fucking knows!!!! Premier League have come up with this FFP rule book, but seem to have put no real effort in about how it will be policed etc. Simply making it up as we go along is a fucking shambles and not acceptable. The call now has to be for an independant regulator over the Premier League. They are simply not fit to police themsleves with out undue bias to certain selection of clubs. I'd love to see them investigated too if I'm honest, for corruption at the very least or incompetence. If at the end of the year its clear there's a breach, just put a transfer ban in place for the next window(s). Doing things retroactively is causing mayhem. Newty82, Romey 1878, Tonsta and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggytop Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 I’m not feeling too positive that the points deduction will be reduced, and I’m hoping that Dyche is saying the same to the squad, and psychologically preparing them for the need to win the points that we need to stay up this season and put this behind us, if they do get reduced it will be great, but let’s not bank on it knowing how wishy washy the PL are. dunlopp9987 and plaidharper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 hours ago, RuffRob said: I agree, given the magnitude of the punishment, I want clarity of the 'crime', clarity on why our clubs arguments are not being upheld, and clarity on how the 10 point punishment has been calculated. I was thinking about this, and it's a key point. The Premier League made this up, completely, with no precedent, no explanation, and no obvious thought. That's no way to run a business. What's needed is a clear statement in advance about: 1) What constitutes a violation, with exceptions clearly defined. 2) What are the penalties for a violation. 3) How do penalties and 3-year averages interact so a club can't be charged twice for the same violation. For example: - The 3-year annual allowed loss is $100m - What is excluded (e.g., stadium expenses), specific allowances for surprises (e.g., COVID) - A loss exceeding $100m but less than $150m, fine of 10% of loss over $100m and deduction of 3 points - A loss exceeding $150m but less than $200m, fine of 20% for the loss over $150m and deduction of 6 points - A loss exceeding $200m, fine of 30% for the loss over $200m and a deduction of 9 points - Fines etc. are increased for repeat offenders, so the big clubs can't ride rough-shod over financial limits and treat fines as an occupational hazard: doubled for second violation in 10 years, tripled for a third violation in 10 years. - Any violation precludes involvement in Europe for the next season. - If a club violates the rules three times in a 10-year period, they are automatically relegated. - This would apply to all leagues, except that the limits and the fines would vary for each league. - The fines are not kept by the PL but distributed to other teams in the league, including those relegated. The amount given to other teams would be in inverse proportion to their final league position (with the three relegated teams receiving the most). - Clubs cannot file lawsuits against others. Personally, I'd rather the fine be a percentage of the club's annual income so the impact is the same for each club. This should be posted somewhere for all to see so there are no excuses, no dragging out proceedings by big clubs, and no making things up as we go along. Everyone is treated fairly. Everyone knows in advance the consequences of their actions. No surprises. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, Wiggytop said: I’m not feeling too positive that the points deduction will be reduced, and I’m hoping that Dyche is saying the same to the squad, and psychologically preparing them for the need to win the points that we need to stay up this season and put this behind us, if they do get reduced it will be great, but let’s not bank on it knowing how wishy washy the PL are. As always, hope for the best but plan for the worst. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/leeds-united-update-compensation-claim-28147847 Interesting article on the potential compensation claims. The independent commission's head, David Phillips KC, claimed that he was "satisfied that the applicant clubs have potential claims for compensation", but that they'd need to wait for the ruling of the appeal first. He added: "Those claims and their validity depend on whether the complaint is upheld. "They depend on factual circumstances concerning the causation of any loss and they depend on other factual issues. If the complaint is upheld, the commission may wish to award compensation to one or more of the applicant clubs. "If the complaint is upheld, the Premier League must provide a copy of the decision to the applicant clubs forthwith. Within 28 days of receipt of a copy of the decision, each applicant club must inform the commission whether it wishes to pursue a claim for . . . compensation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 Scandalous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 You could flick a coin to know whether that’s a bad thing or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patto Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, Palfy said: You could flick a coin to know whether that’s a bad thing or not. Premier league trying its best to finish us off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12776193/IAN-HERBERT-goalposts-moved-Evertons-case-thats-punishment-unfair.html Cornish Steve and London Blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 and don't the PL also appoint the people who will site on the independant commission? I have read or heard that somewhere as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinL Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67490620 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 Why are we so despised as a club, what exactly have we done to promote dislike from the clubs and PL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 6 hours ago, KinL said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67490620 Once again, this is a complete farce. Money talks. The rich and powerful get preferred treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 14 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: Once again, this is a complete farce. Money talks. The rich and powerful get preferred treatment. Our club voted no fyi - probably because we will be looking to do similar with 777 Newty82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patto Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) The premier league are a disgrace to be inviting teams to sue Everton I think we may have to borrow City’s lawyers. Edited November 22, 2023 by patto Spelling StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harv Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 I think clubs are smelling blood and want to cash in as for the PL, flexing their muscles at our expense before taking on the big boys maybe. I did wonder if allowing the likes of City and Chelsea to carry on as they have is to stop any further talk of a breakaway European super league or whatever it was called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 14 hours ago, Palfy said: You could flick a coin to know whether that’s a bad thing or not. I fail to see how having the same people that decided there was a compensation claim then hear the case for compensation (if the teams do decide to go ahead with it) could possibly be a good thing. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harv Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 Agreed, it makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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