marcopaulo Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Sure most academies are good enough for that as they are though? ..and also wouldn't benefit the players that much if they are buying top talent..A player can only become so good through training..I just see no real merit in buying success..I know we didn't win anything but coming 4th the way we did vs coming 4th after spending sugar daddies money? The feeling wouldn't be close to me On the flip side I can't see us progressing without it sadly..or at least someone to buy us a stadium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 The acadamy is investing in the future. At the minute they're buying like that but the acadamy, IF it churns out players and the odd superstar is just a cash cow to them but more importantly it gives any youngster who is lucky enough to get in there the best coaching and facilities possible to develop. Even if he doesn't make the City team , if he makes a good career for himself as a professional footballer then it's serving a purpose and hopefully also getting kids off the streets. It remains to be seen how their academy will perform, how long will it be before it's stuffed full of Spanish and Brazilian twelve year olds for example? Certainly the area's been regenerated and that's all good but the number of local kids it'll take off the streets will be microscopic; they'll still be scouting nationwide even if they don't go worldwide. Superb facility without question but the jury will be out for a while on its long term effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Wouldn't FFP dent any hopes of 'buying success'? You can still only spend so much now with FFP...which was brought in exactly because of the likes of Chelsea, City, PSG. I'm with Mike on the soul thing, it wouldn't feel right. BUT if the sole intention was to invest on infrastructure for the future, great stuff. We've shown relevant success can be achieved on the field without silly money. It's off the field we need a hand. Or a deep pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Clubs like Sevilla & Atletico.... They haven't spent millions upon millions but still seem to compete in Europe. What are they doing that we aren't? Atletico seem to get these brilliant players in for cheap, then flog them for a fortune.... Aguero, Falcao, Diego Costa..... Arguably the best strikers in the world.... All from Atletico. Porto do the same! The South American work permit issue does English clubs no favours at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Clubs like Sevilla & Atletico.... They haven't spent millions upon millions but still seem to compete in Europe. What are they doing that we aren't? Atletico seem to get these brilliant players in for cheap, then flog them for a fortune.... Aguero, Falcao, Diego Costa..... Arguably the best strikers in the world.... All from Atletico. Porto do the same! The South American work permit issue does English clubs no favours at all. If we did that the fans would be up in arms wouldn't they? "Selling club" mentality. Not saying it's a bad business model and it serves some clubs well, but none of us want Everton to be a stepping stone do we. How do we have a different work permit system from other European clubs? Surely as we're part of the EU we should have the same rules? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) If we did that the fans would be up in arms wouldn't they? "Selling club" mentality. Not saying it's a bad business model and it serves some clubs well, but none of us want Everton to be a stepping stone do we.Atletico are far from a selling club. They sell when it suits them and have a viable replacement everytime. From Aguero to Falcao to Costa in the space of 4 years. The top strikers in the world. They've won in recent times: La Liga - 2013/2014 Copa Del Rey - 2012/2013 Supercopa de Espania - 2013 Europa League - 2009/2010, 2011/2012 Uefa Supercup - 2010, 2012 Champions League - Runner up 2013/2014 They've sold their best players and continued to win things with the losses. Edited December 17, 2014 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) How do we have a different work permit system from other European clubs? Surely as we're part of the EU we should have the same rules?Not in football it's not. It's much much harder to get a work permit to play in England than it is in other country's like Spain & Portugal etc Joel Campbell signed for Arsenal but couldn't get a UK work permit.... He was loaned out to Lorient (France), then Betis (Spain) then Olympiakos (Greece). He finally got his work permit in 2013. Edited December 17, 2014 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Atletico seem to get these brilliant players in for cheap, then flog them for a fortune.... Atletico are far from a selling club. Not arguing that they've been brilliant and I've loved their success. But the fact remains that if we bought in players and sold them on for profit when they were at their peak the club would come in for huge stick; if we could then replace them and keep the level of performance the stick would subside of course. But they have only a "glass ceiling" of two to break into, European qualification year on year is much easier for them that it is for us. The work permit thing should be an even playing field, but I suppose there's little we can do about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Atletico Madrid: Far from a success story. They have huge debts and in 2011 a long running legal battle ruled that owed 171 million to the tax man (517million in total to creditors). In 1999, they were in the equivalent of administration. They are regarded as one of the worst run European clubs in history. Most of their players are owned by 3rd parties. Their revenues including TV are nothing spectacular. There recent success is thanks to Simone, but behind the scenes the club has been a mess for 30 years. Hence the reason they sell all these big name players. It's not a choice and it's not part of some ground breaking business plan. The Atletico model is not one to copy. (I only know because I had my stag do in Madrid back in March and took in an Atletico game...took a bit more interest in them when I knew!) Edited December 17, 2014 by Newty82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Clubs like Sevilla & Atletico.... They haven't spent millions upon millions but still seem to compete in Europe. What are they doing that we aren't? Atletico seem to get these brilliant players in for cheap, then flog them for a fortune.... Aguero, Falcao, Diego Costa..... Arguably the best strikers in the world.... All from Atletico. Porto do the same! The South American work permit issue does English clubs no favours at all. Have a little read of this buddy, interesting and will certainly change your mind about Atletico... http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914/champions-league/2014/04/30/4785365/why-debt-ridden-atletico-madrid-should-not-be-considered-a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Have a little read of this buddy, interesting and will certainly change your mind about Atletico... http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914/champions-league/2014/04/30/4785365/why-debt-ridden-atletico-madrid-should-not-be-considered-a That debt is from seasons prior to their success. They wiped out 90m euros in the last 2 seasons. At that rate they'll be debt free in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 If we did that the fans would be up in arms wouldn't they? "Selling club" mentality. Not saying it's a bad business model and it serves some clubs well, but none of us want Everton to be a stepping stone do we. How do we have a different work permit system from other European clubs? Surely as we're part of the EU we should have the same rules? These days though Mike there arent many clubs that arent selling clubs. Even most English clubs would fall down the pecking order if Madrid or Barca came on for them and even Bayern lost players to those clubs too. Even Dortmund lost some of their CL final players to Bayern and the same with Atletico last year. Its frustrating having to sell on players each time but as long as you have quality replacements lined up on the cheap much like Atletico have and Dortmund in the main (albeit they arent doing well domestically this season) and as long as you don't sell all your players in one go like Southampton (albeit that isnt working too badly just yet) then it can be quite successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 That debt is from seasons prior to their success. They wiped out 90m euros in the last 2 seasons. At that rate they'll be debt free in no time. That's just debt to the tax man. There's still a hell of a lot more to pay. In Spain, they reckon they'll be the next Deportivo La Coruna (now in administration). Your not telling me, if you've read that article and any of the many others available, that you like the Atletico model? Because they've won a few cups?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) The story of Atletico's success in recent times is shrewd transfers. Selling players for top end prices and replacing them with just as good if not better. They've been operating on a -net spend for the past 5 years and have won near on everything available to them. Edited December 17, 2014 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 That's just debt to the tax man. There's still a hell of a lot more to pay. In Spain, they reckon they'll be the next Deportivo La Coruna (now in administration). Your not telling me, if you've read that article and any of the many others available, that you like the Atletico model? Because they've won a few cups?! I'm telling you the last 5 years is a model for any club to follow. A minus net spend for 5 years and picked up trophy after the trophy. The debt is an accumulation of awful running of the club from the late 90's - early 2000. Some of the tax they owe is from 2001! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 The story of Atletico's success in recent times is shrewd transfers. Selling players for top end prices and replacing them with just as good if not better. They've been operating on a -net spend for the past 5 years and have won near on everything available to them. Oh dear. You didn't read the article. They don't own their players! Aguero was sold to keep the creditors at bay (in other words, if they didn't sell him they were bust). Falcao was bought with raised eyebrows...turned out 50% of that deal was financed, so they didn't 'own' him. They couldn't even pay Porto what they were due! Simone has done a cracking job though. But that club is not one to be duplicated. Not at all. And if you've read anything in that link, you'll know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm telling you the last 5 years is a model for any club to follow. A minus net spend for 5 years and picked up trophy after the trophy. The debt is an accumulation of awful running of the club from the late 90's - early 2000. Some of the tax they owe is from 2001! Yes...while still building up huge debts!!! Ah fuck it. You're blinded by silver. Doesn't matter. You like it, I don't. That's fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Oh dear. You didn't read the article. They don't own their players! Aguero was sold to keep the creditors at bay (in other words, if they didn't sell him they were bust). Falcao was bought with raised eyebrows...turned out 50% of that deal was financed, so they didn't 'own' him. They couldn't even pay Porto what they were due! Simone has done a cracking job though. But that club is not one to be duplicated. Not at all. And if you've read anything in that link, you'll know that. You really shouldn't take everything you read as gospel Newts. Even is it is correct. In the past 5 years they've got a profitable business winning trophies? A minus net spend.... Which loads of Evertonians use as an excuse for being unsuccessful and it being unfair! Edited December 17, 2014 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 You really shouldn't take everything you read as gospel Newts. Even is it is correct. Hahaha....I don't want to go into it anymore with you (waste of time tbh) but this line is gold!!! You're basically telling me not to believe everything I read even if it's true?!!! That's brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 You really shouldn't take everything you read as gospel Newts. Even is it is correct. In the past 5 years they've got a profitable business winning trophies? A minus net spend.... Which loads of Evertonians use as an excuse for being unsuccessful and it being unfair! One man used that as excuse and a lot of people believed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hahaha....I don't want to go into it anymore with you (waste of time tbh) but this line is gold!!! You're basically telling me not to believe everything I read even if it's true?!!! That's brilliant. That's just my poor grammar Newts! There should never have been a full stop and "is" should read "if". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 It just shows you can operate on a minus net spend and still win things.... And buying players cheap and selling at profit is a cracking business model. It can be done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) We need Atletico's scouts. Edited December 17, 2014 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 It just shows you can operate on a minus net spend and still win things.... And buying players cheap and selling at profit is a cracking business model. It can be done! I agree that it is a cracking business model...but Atletico haven't done that. Honestly, do a bit of homework on it (not just looking at a transfer table) and you'll understand (I think...maybe...possibly not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 That's just my poor grammar Newts! There should never have been a full stop and "is" should read "if". I did automatically replace the "is" with an "if". You're still telling me not to take everything as gospel "even IF it IS correct". Sound advice mate, thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I did automatically replace the "is" with an "if". You're still telling me not to take everything as gospel "even IF it IS correct". Sound advice mate, thanks!!! You really shouldn't take everything you read as gospel Newts. Even if it is correct, In the past 5 years they've got a profitable business winning trophies? A minus net spend.... Which loads of Evertonians use as an excuse for being unsuccessful and it being unfair! That's how it should have read Newts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Wouldn't it be great. Sadly it wont be us No. It would be terrible. I have very little respect for teams that buy their way to success. Anyone can do that. The truly great teams earn their way there - a true team and not a bunch of expensive prima donna individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 no thanks, i'd rather be a club with integrity than some plastic middle eastern sheik owned shill. honestly i don't know if i could follow the club anymore. i'm sure ole pad will have a field day with this, but i just can't support that. not honest and not right. BK is a fan and i love that. they want to buy spurs anyways. side note: how would spurs with a large jewish fan base feel about being owned by arabs? i just don't think it would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 no thanks, i'd rather be a club with integrity than some plastic middle eastern sheik owned shill. honestly i don't know if i could follow the club anymore. i'm sure ole pad will have a field day with this, but i just can't support that. not honest and not right. BK is a fan and i love that. they want to buy spurs anyways. side note: how would spurs with a large jewish fan base feel about being owned by arabs? i just don't think it would work. I actually thought about that even though Qatar is a bit more "progressive" than other middle eastern countries. I'm using the term progressive loosely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 That's how it should have read Newts. Aaaaah, I get you. I kept reading thinking 'I must be missing something here'. It's a simple difference of opinions. Your looking at a very simple 'Transfers In Vs Transfers Out' table plus some silver. The real situation is not one I'd like to see here. Keep the silverware...I'd rather have a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.