Martinez confirmed as new manager

[mcirony]

Shown some great passages of play no doubt that accounts for about 5% of our general play which is horrendous. Read the Romeys match day reports and count how many times he comments on our boring football tactics etc

I don't think you can finish in the top 6 of ANY league in the world if you only play good football 5% of the time...ridiculous statement.

 

With all due respect to Romey, I don't need to read his post match analysis to know how the team I support is playing.

[Avinalaff]

Wigan made 7m more than us - 5m profit versus 2m spend

 

 

Thanks.

 

I was a bit slow there ha ha.

[Avinalaff]

Would you have Ian Holloway ?

[mcirony]

 

Potent? I'm not sure 4-5-1 at home to relegation fodder, whilst lumping balls into channels is potent. Especially when you consider the technical talent available. I've seen the odd game where we look great, but on the whole we have circled the wagons and played predicatble one dimensional stuff, no plan B etc.

I'm sorry but with an in form Jelavic this season we would easily have been in the mix for champions league. I'm not saying our shortcomings can be blamed on one player but we missed his goals massively, if you look at the amount of absolute sitters he missed you can quickly add points on to our tally.

[Bailey]

From a Wigan Forum (Northern Soul) .....

 

Martinez has gone. (The excuse) Says he's done all he can with Wigan.

 

"Well maybe 4 seasons and 3 relegations fights ending in relegation is all too Much for Martinez. Personally, I think he's a fool, but that's just me.

 

Now we have to wait and see what Whelan will do next. Maybe Martinez didn't get the answered he needed in the meeting today which only lasted half an hour. Looks like Everton have been waiting in the wings to me, and I expect to see him going there now."

 

 

We could be getting the wrong fella in here.

 

Oh shit a Wigan fan says he is shit so therefore he must be terrible! Jesus Christ...

To those who wish to make an informed opinion then this is a great (BALANCED) read. http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/roberto-martinez-strengths-and-weaknesses/

 

If you want to believe that Martinez is a bad choice based on him toying and then eventually succumbing to relegation then you may want to ignore as it has facts and stats in there that may discredit your argument.

 

That is a very good article, I dont agree with it all but some of the points he highlights about chance creation both in attack and defence are very interesting, especially given the fact they havent had their full strength team playing for most of the season.

 

I have said it before but as a system Wigan are actually very good defensively, especially when 3 at the back. The shape they keep, the way they close down and their ability to close the angles to reduce goal scoring opportunities were good. The problem is that he has had yard dogs for defenders who have made so many individual mistakes and when you consider the two main players he has brought in to help (Alcaraz and Ramis) have been injured for large parts of the season. Consider how well a back 3 or 4 of Boyce, Caldwell, Figuroa Scharner/Stam would do under Moyes? You can get away with one or two playing alongside you best defenders but not 3 or 4. The amount of individual mistakes does come somewhat on Martinez's shoulders but at times his hands have been tied.

 

With Martinez there is more than meets the eye. He is ambitious and intelligent and he will be a successful manager. He might come here and fail, but he will be successful somewhere else because he is passionate about the game and he puts in the hard work to back it up. Its managers like him, and some of the German crop that we should be looking at and not the ones that have only achieved with relatively vast resources.

 

Wigan's best paid are on less than Anichebe, paints a picture of how hard Martinez's job was.

 

Exactly! I think I posted elsewhere that Wigan's current wage bill isnt much different to ours when Moyes took over 11 years ago. Considering the vast inflation of wages in that time it is a massive difference.

[Bailey]

I'm sorry but with an in form Jelavic this season we would easily have been in the mix for champions league. I'm not saying our shortcomings can be blamed on one player but we missed his goals massively, if you look at the amount of absolute sitters he missed you can quickly add points on to our tally.

 

 

I think we have also been pretty lucky not to concede a few more goals this season as well so it is swings and roundabouts on that one.

[Matt]

Same here. Not my first choice but will definately support him. Hopefully he'll get us a few signings with his Spanish contacts. Don't want anyone from Wigan apart from McCarthy and maybe McManaman.

both for 15m I reckon would be possible, and a very shrewd bit of business

 

 

"He has 12 months left on his contract, so whoever comes in for him must pay the remainder of his contract."

 

i'd have thought if he resigned we wouldn't have to pay either?

I thought he wouldve had to pay! 2m though, suppose its not too bad.

 

If he uses similar tactics we could see something on the lines of this. Don't know if it would work, but going forward we'll be a force, would need Felli to dip back and allow Baines/Coleman forward and Barkley to do Maloney's role, but on the opposite side.

 

------------------Howard

------Coleman Heitinga Baines

-------------Gibson Fellaini

Pienaar-----------------------Oviedo

-----Barkley Jelavic Mirallas

 

Doesn't suit Martinez's system, Heitinga is the best suited to play the ball from the back.

Pete, are you crazy?! Apart from Heits more or less opening the door to leave, why would you put wing backs in the CB position, dropping our 2 best defenders in their place?!

 

Dave Whelan is coming up on SSN if anyone's interested, voiceover says he's allowed Martinez to speak to Everton.

Louis, do you have everyone on ignore?!

 

Would you have Ian Holloway ?

Yes. but I know Im more or less alone on that one....

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

We finished 15th the season before he came, won a FA cup 6 years before that. Our team was much better than Walter Smith made it look, and Moyes job has been a lot easier than people make out. Bar one 4th place finish (even Ipswich had a one season wonder and managed that) Moyes has not done anything to be considered great, he's competent. Any manager that is not an idiot would have done just as good or just as not great as the case is, only succeeding on others faults not from his own ingenuity. Sides over spent wages and fees, if anything its the chairman who should be praised.

The club has been stagnant. Moyes has been great at keeping a chip on his shoulder giving the illusion fo doing a good job, but a better manager would have brushed it off and progressed.

As for comparing Everton to Wigan on equal footing... I can't fathom that.

 

 

Hmmmm whereas Wigan finished 11th and were in a Cup final 3 years before you mean?

 

Lol it would would appear that its not the only thing you cant fathom!

[pete0]

Pete, are you crazy?! Apart from Heits more or less opening the door to leave, why would you put wing backs in the CB position, dropping our 2 best defenders in their place?!

 

Going from his system this season. Figueroa was in the lcb position, although possibly due to injuries. Can't agree about the other 2 being better than Heits we conceded in 18 consecutive games.

[pete0]

 

 

Hmmmm whereas Wigan finished 11th and were in a Cup final 3 years before you mean?

 

Lol it would would appear that its not the only thing you cant fathom!

And compare the wage budgets since then relatively with the rest of the league.

[Jonny Z Cars]

Points to consider:

 

• Neil Lennon has an excellent win rate
• Vitor Pereira has won a title with an excellent win rate
• "We are the 6th best team in the country, we should attract more

 

• I could have an excellent win rate in Scotland
• I could have an excellent win rate in Portugal
• 6th isnt attractive to anyone who wants to manage in Europe.

Roberto Martinez I believe has the necessary skills to build and progress us as a team. He got Swansea City to play attractive, attacking football who managed to gain promotion. He installed that same priority in Wigan, but has been let down by shoddy defending, 2 goalkeepers, [so no solidity], but has unearthed stars in Mcarthur, Mcmanaman and Maloney.

 

I for one would be happy with Martinez, because I can be sure the reaction to Lennon, Stubbs or Weir would have been much much worse than the reaction to the crest.

[Gwlad]

I will be happy with Martinez and I think he probably wants to stay in the NW especially if he has kids, schooling. As I've said before he does have the Cup under his belt so let's give him a chance. If DM f***ks up at Man U he might be wanting to come back at Goodison in the not too distant future.

[Newty82]

Martinez's Premier League record:

 

Games 152

Wins 38

Draws 43

Losses 71

win % 25%

 

Whelan says he's not "equipped to manage" Wigan in the Championship.

 

Whelan confirms £2m is the compensation fee should anyone want to appoint him.

Bit of a misquote or mistype there...Martinez told Whelan he didnt feel he was equipped to get Wigan out of the championship. Whelan disagrees and feels Martinez is being too hard on hilmself and then quotes the injuries they have had. Whelan believes Martinez is the man and wants him to stay.

[Finners]

Martinez is 100% nailed. BK wants him.

 

McCarthy coming in too

[StevO]

I wanted Parreira (spelling) but I'll be happy with Martinez.

 

Need to make one point though. Everyone keeps popping up with this three at the back talk. Martinez played 433 for quite a while and reverted to three/five at the back to tighten up their defence. Really think with a back four like ours he would need to put an extra man in there?

I'd be very surprised if we didn't play 433.

[Steve_E]

Quite in-depth analysis of Wigan's tactics:

 

http://www.eplindex.com/31897/scouting-report-wigan-stats-depth-tactical-analysis.html

 

That's not to say he will play the exact same way here.

[Formby]

Looking forward to seeing a more cultivated brand of football under Martinez: was very tired of the cheap plonk Moyes habitually served up. A nice glass of cava will go down nicely.

[mcirony]

Looking forward to seeing a more cultivated brand of football under Martinez: was very tired of the cheap plonk Moyes habitually served up. A nice glass of cava will go down nicely.

Seriously...?!

[Formby]

Seriously...?!

Absolutely.

[mcirony]

Absolutely.

You sounded like Alan Partridge!

[Louis]

I'm coming around to the idea of Martinez now.

[StevO]

I'm coming around to the idea of Martinez now.

 

Care to share why the change of heart?

[Iamryanstover]

I'm coming around to the idea of Martinez now.

 

 

Care to share why the change of heart?

Best of the options available? I personally have been impressed with Martinez since the South Africa WC when he was a studio analyst for ESPN. He offered a nice opinion and seems to have a solid vision of how player can fit together.

 

After being gone for the (American) Holiday weekend I had hoped we would have settled on a new Manager. I did read that maybe The Mirror? had speculated Martinez could command an exit fee of £5M. If that is true then perhaps the club should look in another direction. Perhaps that's why things are yet to be settled.

[RuffRob]

I am with

 

I'm coming around to the idea of Martinez now.

 

I have to agree with you on this one. I am also warming to idea.

 

The was a TV programme on the other night called the 'Rise and Fall of Swansea City' and it made very interesting viewing for any club looking at Martinez becoming their manager. I also used to live in Swansea until four years ago (to my lad to his first football game at the Liberty Stadium) so remember how they played under Martinez.

 

There was a lot of good stuff on the TV programme about the man's character, drive, philosophies, ambition and integrity as both a player and a manager. So a lot of the traits I admire in Moyes. He is also a avid student of the game.

 

He became manager for Swansea after they had had got themselves in to the first division. Swansea couldn't match the financial clout of going up a league or the physical strength of the teams in this division or the transfer fees/wages to bring in player required to go toe to toe on the physicality needed. Martinez at the helm and with the support of the Chairman et al (of a fan own club) transferred the whole footballing philosophy of club for the short term and as part of a long term plan. (Swansea still now appoint managers based on the foundations laid by Martinez). The philosophy is to out football the opposition. In the first division were many of there opposition team managed around 150-200 passes per game, Swansea were regularly get to 300-400 passes and in a couple of games attained 800 passes. They won the first division championship with mainly second division player, but with a change in footballing style.

 

With DM we will see nice football. He instils the confidence for player to play rather than lump the ball.

 

Everton are constantly being described as punching above their weight , given the finances (we all know we should be at the top table in English football). It could also be said Wigan are also punch above their weigh just being in the Premier league as they really are only a championship team at best, just look at their gate and fan base, they really are the poor relations of the league. Has Martinez just managing to keep Wigan up for three seasons on pretty poor resources a commendable achievement. We should not be expecting to have see Wigan as a top half of the premiership team even with SAF or Moyes in charge!!

 

I know we haven't spent much transfer either, but we do pay significantly more wages and we do attract a significantly higher quality of player.

 

I think I would be correct that pretty much everybody's concerns would be the defending and goals conceded by Wigan. Wigan were truly shocking at the back in the last few games this season - but to be honest they where very much depilated on defensive player in the last half dozen games so this has to be taken in perspective. I think a significant proportions of goals conceded were as much down to individual error as opposed to a tactically inept system. At Everton, Martinez will have a much higher calibre of defender at his disposal.

 

There were no defending issues at Swansea, so with better resources suited to the calibre of division you are in, there is unlikely be such a defending issue.

 

Everton played some really nice attacking football this year, but our defending wasn't all that at times. Would it have been worst or would we have let more goals in if Martinez had taken the same group of players. I perhaps think not.

 

We know we have players at our club that can play, what we would have in Martinez is somebody who will actively encourage them to so.

 

I think there is much more to be optimistic about than there is to be pessimistic about if Martinez is appointed.

 

And this is posted by someone who will miss out on £500 if Pereria isn't appointed as the new manager!!!!

[Zoo]

Seeing as Bill Kenwright decides who the new manager will be why doesn't he stick 100% of Everton's money on a bet in the bookies on who will be our next manager? It's not as if he can get it wrong.

[Guest blueboy122]

I don't think you can finish in the top 6 of ANY league in the world if you only play good football 5% of the time...ridiculous statement.

 

With all due respect to Romey, I don't need to read his post match analysis to know how the team I support is playing.

 

Tell that to Stoke, West Ham, Bolton, etc and Wimbeldon of course who won the league with playing awful 100% percent of the time. So you infact made the ridiculous statement.

 

Please re read that post Matthew as you cleary havent read it where do I say good football, I said we have had some decent passages in some games.

 

I take it you are an avid fan of match of the day if you believe we play a good brand of football.

[gethinO]

Good plan Zoo but knowing Bill he's stick 60 million on Martinez on Friday night then hire Alan Stubbs Saturday morning.

"We're definitely gonna have to sell if you want to buy this year Stubbsy".

[Guest blueboy122]

I'm sorry but with an in form Jelavic this season we would easily have been in the mix for champions league. I'm not saying our shortcomings can be blamed on one player but we missed his goals massively, if you look at the amount of absolute sitters he missed you can quickly add points on to our tally.

 

You need to look at the reason as to why Jelly hasnt been scoring this season, yes partly down to him being zapped of confidence maybe he got found out. I personally think that Moyes has a large part of blame to take with Jelly due to Moyes playing Fellaini as forward, Fella was knocking and flicking the long balls on to Jelly which would mean that Jelly was having to control the ball back to goal and hold the ball up or eithier the ball was getting flicked on out into the channels and he would have to chase down etc. I do agree though that the chances he has had this season he has squanderd due to a lack of confidence from the points already mentioned.

 

If Jelly was in united teams I would bet he would have scored at least 20+, they make decent chances for thier forwards. United would not have there best finisher and centre forward working the channels for the flick ons and knock downs.

[Iamryanstover]

Seeing as Bill Kenwright decides who the new manager will be why doesn't he stick 100% of Everton's money on a bet in the bookies on who will be our next manager? It's not as if he can get it wrong.

This is actually quite thought provoking.

[Iamryanstover]

 

You need to look at the reason as to why Jelly hasnt been scoring this season, yes partly down to him being zapped of confidence maybe he got found out. I personally think that Moyes has a large part of blame to take with Jelly due to Moyes playing Fellaini as forward, Fella was knocking and flicking the long balls on to Jelly which would mean that Jelly was having to control the ball back to goal and hold the ball up or eithier the ball was getting flicked on out into the channels and he would have to chase down etc. I do agree though that the chances he has had this season he has squanderd due to a lack of confidence from the points already mentioned.

 

If Jelly was in united teams I would bet he would have scored at least 20+, they make decent chances for thier forwards. United would not have there best finisher and centre forward working the channels for the flick ons and knock downs.

I agree that more attractive football would have helped him, but as has been mentioned before he missed more than a few sitters, and lacks the speed to create his own chances.