Martinez won't last the season

[Hafnia]

To be honest I don't give half the pundits any credibility, they watch the top 4 and pretty much kiss their arse. This is just redknapp fawning over Moyes as he is the new manc manager nothing more.

 

You would think Moyes had left a manual behind "how to sit back and win" which Martinez discovered and applied for this game and wishes he had it for the previous 3.

 

Playing a high tempo wasn't because of Moyes, the tempo was set by the Chelsea players initially and we matched them. These are all intelligent human beings, they play football, they aren't reliant on constant instructions. Was it Moyes esque the way we scored our goal??? I don't think it was, a short free kick which led to the goal was received with groans by a crowd so used to seeing a direct ball into the box. Martinez has instructed the players to pass the ball and be patient, we didn't take the Moyes option and hoof it up to a target man, we played it around, switched play, went backwards when necessary.

 

I like mikeo enjoyed the last 20 minutes, we looked the more likely to score as we offered a threat going forward and not an invitation to flood our half.

[Dalziel Kane]

Got to concur that I don't have much time for the media people and pundits in general as there's too much favoritism towards the usual more recognized names, and everyone else, just goes by the wayside.

 

Say again, the thread title would appear preposterous by itself. Did anyone really think Kenwright would fire Martinez before the end of this season, when the Spaniard took over, regardless of how the league goes ?

 

Fucking hell, Kenwright tolerated Moyes for over a decade when it was blatantly obvious he could do no more and it was the essentially the same season over and over towards the end, so what chance of Martinez being told to go in his first season, even if the club does poorly.

 

Wigan Athletic were relegated this calendar year, but did they fire Martinez' ass ? No, he left of his own accord. Suppose for arguments sake this club were to be relegated this end of season - which they won't - do you think for one minute the owners would kick Martinez out after his one season because of it ? I don't think so.

 

But then again, the club won't be relegated, but it was merely a scenario for arguments sake of what to expect.

[Cornish Steve]

A good article by Jamie Redknapp of all people: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/18932/8922594/jamie-redknapp-backs-roberto-martinez-for-success-after-chelsea-scalp

 

Except that we had four England internationals playing yesterday, not three.

[MikeO]

 

Except that we had four England internationals playing yesterday, not three.

 

So a good article apart from his ability to count up to four then . I know footballers tend not to be overly gifted academically but I think even Wayne Rooney could do that!

 

(Although actually it was five )

[Cornish Steve]

 

So a good article apart from his ability to count up to four then . I know footballers tend not to be overly gifted academically but I think even Wayne Rooney could do that!

 

(Although actually it was five )

 

OK - so you have me beat. Who's the fifth?

[Matt]

 

OK - so you have me beat. Who's the fifth?

I can only think of Stones, though hes not a senior international

[MikeO]

 

OK - so you have me beat. Who's the fifth?

 

Baines, Jags, Ross, Ossie & Barry.

[Hafnia]

I think they all read off the same crypt sheet:-

 

Give undue praise to the top 4 managers.

 

Give as many plaudits as you can to England regulars

 

Anyone who plays for England outside the top 4 must be mentioned as a "you wonder how long they can hold onto him for"

 

It makes you look more intelligent if you praise Michael Carrick more than Rooney.

[Matt]

 

Baines, Jags, Ross, Ossie & Barry.

[mcirony]

See above point...

 

When we were shite there was no disputing it, no anger - just concern and a feeling of we're in this together.

 

Under Moyes over the last 6-7 years I have felt like a wife getting taken on holiday to Blackpool every year by a husband with £50k in the bank. The sad reality many fans felt that this holiday was better than getting the house repossessed so tolerated the negativity.

 

I'm not for one second saying that kenwright has supported Moyes, the boards ambition and ability is something I'm known for despising. However based on the players that Moyes frugally assembled we should have played far better football.

So in some respects Moyes was a victim of his own (albeit small) successes in assembling a good quality squad frugally?

 

What if we had continued in the "we're shit and in this together" and got ourselves relegated? Or even just continued that for 11 more years with a conveyor belt of managers.

 

It can happen, look at Notts Forest, Middlesborough etc.

 

I agree that Moyes was stale, frustrating, and bullheaded at best but whether you like it or not he stabilised this club and has given RM the perfect opportunity and base from which to employ his philosophy.

Martinez has a much easier task of bringing in a new philosophy. Moyes had to drag us out of the sewers, he might have come out covered in shit in some people's eyes but it was exactly what we needed.

 

He deserves some credit for that.

[pete0]

So in some respects Moyes was a victim of his own (albeit small) successes in assembling a good quality squad frugally?

 

What if we had continued in the "we're shit and in this together" and got ourselves relegated? Or even just continued that for 11 more years with a conveyor belt of managers.

 

It can happen, look at Notts Forest, Middlesborough etc.

 

I agree that Moyes was stale, frustrating, and bullheaded at best but whether you like it or not he stabilised this club and has given RM the perfect opportunity and base from which to employ his philosophy.

Martinez has a much easier task of bringing in a new philosophy. Moyes had to drag us out of the sewers, he might have come out covered in shit in some people's eyes but it was exactly what we needed.

 

He deserves some credit for that.

Sam Aladyce could have kept us up, we would have moaned quicker and then got the next manager to help make the next step up. Moyes pulled wool over a lot of fans eyes, 70k a week for Nil Satis Nisi Pessimism. Finished exactly where the wage structure predicts yet whinged week in week out, even though he wouldn't utilise the squad he had. Could have been a great manager, but sadly he didn't grow, same mistakes and too stubborn to learn from them. Wish we'd got rid earlier.

[mcirony]

Sam Aladyce could have kept us up, we would have moaned quicker and then got the next manager to help make the next step up. Moyes pulled wool over a lot of fans eyes, 70k a week for Nil Satis Nisi Pessimism. Finished exactly where the wage structure predicts yet whinged week in week out, even though he wouldn't utilise the squad he had. Could have been a great manager, but sadly he didn't grow, same mistakes and too stubborn to learn from them. Wish we'd got rid earlier.

But didn't he help to get those wage budgets by selling players at a big profit and improving our league standings?!

 

Scrap that. I guess we are never going to agree so there's no point in continuing this discussion. if neither sides have convinced each other by now, we never will!!

[Hafnia]

So in some respects Moyes was a victim of his own (albeit small) successes in assembling a good quality squad frugally?

 

What if we had continued in the "we're shit and in this together" and got ourselves relegated? Or even just continued that for 11 more years with a conveyor belt of managers.

 

It can happen, look at Notts Forest, Middlesborough etc.

 

I agree that Moyes was stale, frustrating, and bullheaded at best but whether you like it or not he stabilised this club and has given RM the perfect opportunity and base from which to employ his philosophy.

Martinez has a much easier task of bringing in a new philosophy. Moyes had to drag us out of the sewers, he might have come out covered in shit in some people's eyes but it was exactly what we needed.

 

He deserves some credit for that.

Moyes absolutely deserves credit for his first few years and when he operated in the market. That is not my point, you can't set up the club for the next phase/step of what should be an evolution and just fookin whinge whilst banking over a quarter of a million in wages a month.

 

He may as well have come out and said "i can't do this part..." No instead he carried on sandbagging. Give Kevin keegan credit, he held his hands up and walked when he knew he had no more answers for his lack of being able to evolve tactically.

 

Moyes could make a tremendous living in the game as a fixer... He stole 5-6 years of a contract just repeating his same failed but steady enough to get top half system. His next job after us should have been Sunderland, wolves, Newcastle. Clubs that need sorting out and steadying.

[Cornish Steve]

 

Baines, Jags, Ross, Ossie & Barry.

 

I completely overlooked Osman.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I think its really ironic that people are bleating so much about Moyes being negative

 

We have just had our best transfer window for as long as I can remember, we are unbeaten this season and have just stolen 3 points from Chelsea, a side many people are tipping to win the league. So you would think that all these people with a positive mind set would be happy, but no they cant find anything to moan about with our own club so they fill every thread in here bleating about another clubs manager

 

Bored to fuck with all this Moyse nonsense , he has gone so get over it and lets worry about Roberto Martinez and our own club

Edited September 15, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Romey 1878]

I think its really ironic that people are bleating so much about Moyes being negative

 

We have just had our best transfer window for as long as I can remember, we are unbeaten this season and have just stolen 3 points from Chelsea, a side many people are tipping to win the league. So you would think that all these people with a positive mind set would be happy, but no they cant find anything to moan about with our own club so they fill every thread in here bleating about another clubs manager

 

Bored to fuck with all this Moyse nonsense , he has gone so get over it and lets worry about Roberto Martinez and our own club

Amen!

[Sideliner]

I find it really ironic that some people are "bored to fuck" with some other people making negative Moyes comments after what he has done, but do not get the same feeling if some people carries on making constant negative Martinez comments despite his obvious achievements -

telling people to stop talking about anything looks pretty much like trying to sweep something under the carpet

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I find it really ironic that some people are "bored to fuck" with some other people making negative Moyes comments after what he has done, but do not get the same feeling if some people carries on making constant negative Martinez comments despite his obvious achievements -

telling people to stop talking about anything looks pretty much like trying to sweep something under the carpet

 

 

Point 1 ... David Moyes is not our manager

 

Point 2 . Roberto Martinez is our manager

 

Point 3. Its an Everton forum

 

 

Feel free to talk about Moyes as much as you want , but cant it be kept to the General Football topic and not be in every bastard thread ? ( refer to point 1 )

 

If people want to constantly criticise Martinez, then they are in the right place to do it( refer to points 2 & 3 ) .Personally I think he has made a very promising start to his Everton reign and so there is a lot to be positive about so don't really want to trawl through all the negativity that is appearing in virtually every thread. If you want to moan about Moyse so much join a Man Utd forum

[Quinn31]

 

 

Point 1 ... David Moyes is not our manager

 

Point 2 . Roberto Martinez is our manager

 

Point 3. Its an Everton forum

 

 

Feel free to talk about Moyes as much as you want , but cant it be kept to the General Football topic and not be in every bastard thread ? ( refer to point 1 )

 

If people want to constantly criticise Martinez, then they are in the right place to do it( refer to points 2 & 3 ) .Personally I think he has made a very promising start to his Everton reign and so there is a lot to be positive about so don't really want to trawl through all the negativity that is appearing in virtually every thread. If you want to moan about Moyse so much join a Man Utd forum

So much this.

[Sideliner]

I think its totally ridiculous to be getting on his back after just 3 games, he is trying to completely change the way in which we play and so its not going to happen overnight.

 

Under Moyse we usually played at a much higher tempo, but to say we played "hoof ball" is total bollocks IMO, and we always looked a poor side when we didn't have that zest about us. RM now has us playing at a much slower, more methodical, pace and so its going to take time to adjust. I also think Gibson is a big miss for us at the moment because I think this new style would really suit him

 

For me the main problem at the moment though is the same one its always been, we just don't have that quality striker who could get us the goals to turn draws into wins. While I never really rated Kone at Wigan and I do think we have paid over the odds for him I think he needs to be given a chance to get his fitness levels back up and to have a bit of time to bed in, then who knows he may just make a difference

 

I think we will be in for mid table mediocrity this season and then we will hopefully kick on next season when he has had time to get his own players in and stamp his own style on the side.

well then you must practice what you preach sir - look who was referring to Moyes in THIS thread a couple of days ago -

if something is relevant it should be discussed - it is impossible to discuss the way forward for our new manager without looking back at the last 11 years - as you have also done above quite correctly in my humble opinion

[Matt]

 

 

Point 1 ... David Moyes is not our manager

 

Point 2 . Roberto Martinez is our manager

 

Point 3. Its an Everton forum

 

 

Feel free to talk about Moyes as much as you want , but cant it be kept to the General Football topic and not be in every bastard thread ? ( refer to point 1 )

 

If people want to constantly criticise Martinez, then they are in the right place to do it( refer to points 2 & 3 ) .Personally I think he has made a very promising start to his Everton reign and so there is a lot to be positive about so don't really want to trawl through all the negativity that is appearing in virtually every thread. If you want to moan about Moyse so much join a Man Utd forum

exactly right, and it should be kept here

 

http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/25303-david-moyes-thread/

[Cornish Steve]

 

 

Point 1 ... David Moyes is not our manager

 

Point 2 . Roberto Martinez is our manager

 

Point 3. Its an Everton forum

 

 

Feel free to talk about Moyes as much as you want , but cant it be kept to the General Football topic and not be in every bastard thread ? ( refer to point 1 )

 

If people want to constantly criticise Martinez, then they are in the right place to do it( refer to points 2 & 3 ) .Personally I think he has made a very promising start to his Everton reign and so there is a lot to be positive about so don't really want to trawl through all the negativity that is appearing in virtually every thread. If you want to moan about Moyse so much join a Man Utd forum

 

Geez. What a negative post. You sound just like Moyes.

[StevO]

On the plus side, no body is moaning about Everton, life is good!

[Sideliner]

On the plus side, no body is moaning about Everton, life is good!

Yea ! Everton unbeaten after 4 games - for the first time in the last 12 years -

Only Everton and Liverpool still unbeaten - last happened in 1974 I think

[Quinn31]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/12/roberto-martinez-english-youth-everton

[Cornish Steve]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/12/roberto-martinez-english-youth-everton

 

It's a creative idea, but I'm not sure how teams would react. Take Accrington as an example. Would they be willing to take 10-11 youngsters from Everton for a season? In some ways, it would really help their team. On the other hand, they lose their identity. Plus, in England, we really are Luddites when it comes to ideas like this.

[Bailey]

 

It's a creative idea, but I'm not sure how teams would react. Take Accrington as an example. Would they be willing to take 10-11 youngsters from Everton for a season? In some ways, it would really help their team. On the other hand, they lose their identity. Plus, in England, we really are Luddites when it comes to ideas like this.

 

Yeh I agree. We need to find ways of getting young players involved in a competitive environment without effecting the history of clubs and the league itself. I think there should be a restriction on the age you can buy players (or at least move them to the premier league). We see so many young players who do well week in week out in the lower levels but then move to a Premiership side never to be seen again. Maybe there should be a contract which says that the player can be loaned back and make that type of agreement common place, but then again, you dont get the player bonding with the rest of the parent team.

 

I live near Portsmouth and I thought it was awful seeing them slip down the ladder like they have, sometimes not even able to put enough players on the bench. Yes the owners have been a disgrace but it really is the fans that suffered. We could have loaned them 5-6 players and they would have learnt so much last year in trying to fight off that inevitable relegation but instead they sat in the reserves playing meaningless games. The Premier League clubs almost owe it to these teams (I'm thinking mainly local to the area) and sending 8 or so out on loan to various clubs should be the norm (all with recall clauses in case the parent club has a injury crisis etc). Not only will it benefit the local/feeder club, it will benefit the player and ultimately that will benefit the parent club because even if the player doesn't make it, his value will be higher if he has shown that he can play to a certain standard.

[Lowensda]

Not directly about Martinez but Ian Holloway's announced that it was watching Martinez's, then Swansea team, which changed the way he wanted to coach his teams.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24177759

 

Credit to Martinez then?

[Romey 1878]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/340218/Darron-Gibson-Everton-better-without-David-Moyes

[Hafnia]

I enjoyed working under David. He has a sense of humour and got the best out of me.

 

But the new manager knows what he is talking about as well.

 

Technically and tactically he knows what hes talking about, is very well educated, never seems to be stressed out and is always smiling.

 

 

I love reading between the lines in players interviews....

 

Basically Gibson seems to refer to Moyes as a motivator "got the best out of him". "But" the new manager knows what he's talking about aswell - then specifies technically and tactically as his reason for making such comment.

 

Tactical and technical are two qualities you wouldn't associate with Moyes. Tactical... Setting up a team one way ain't really tactical, especially when that set up doesn't work, where's the plan B?

 

Martinez displayed brilliant in game tactics yesterday which I've not seen Moyes do to that extent. 3 subs with 40 minutes to play, ok one was forced but none the less, the difference was tremendous.