Has Martinez got it wrong?

[Newty82]

When people atart realising last season was a fluke. Tactical genius? how anyone can call him that astounds me.

 

Fact is Wigan leaked goals for fun and they went down. Fact is we're leaking goals for fun, anyone see a pattern developing here?

 

He had Moyes side last seasonthis season it's all his own doing and look where we are. Lookat his transfer dealings hecan't even play the players he's bought in the right way.

Alls I see is same shit different day and shit or no subs to change a game.

 

Fucking L O L at tactical anything.

You do realise that the amount of times you've taken opportunity to talk this way (and the rest of the Martinez stuff) is exactly the same as Haf and Lukaku?

 

We'll wait and see.

[Blueherts]

I asked this question in another thread but it went ignored, so I'll try again:

 

What is the major difference between last season and this season (aside from the obvious getting our asses wiped all over the pitch) in terms of tactical play and style?

 

Why/how did it work last season and not this year?

 

And maybe slightly O/T here but as a newbie the bickering/name-calling between Brett Angel and MC11 almost makes me want to unsubscribe after one day. WTF is wrong with you guys? Where are the mods? So congrats guys!

 

 

If you click on your name in the top right of the screen there is a section that says manage/ignore prefs. From there you can block out all their rubbish and all will be right with your world.

[Romey 1878]

One major thing he's got wrong, and keeps getting wrong, is throwing people straight back in after injury. He just doesn't seem to learn. Yesterday he throws McCarthy straight back and revealed he was taken off at half-time as a precaution because he was at high risk of another hamstring injury... Here's a thought; don't play him til he's capable of playing ffs.

 

He's wrapped Kone and Oviedo in cotton wool, quite rightly, but anyone else is royally fucked about him when it comes to injuries. It's doing my head in.

[Hafnia]

You do realise that the amount of times you've taken opportunity to talk this way (and the rest of the Martinez stuff) is exactly the same as Haf and Lukaku?

 

 

We'll wait and see.

 

Big difference Newt. I have had to endure people telling me lukaku is a beast when he is a big tart who gets knocked off the ball. I've been told his back to goal play has improved when it's still clearly shit. I've had to be told that he puts in a shift when he actually doesn't.

 

All this has been proven by watching kone in two games, it's almost like fans had lowered their expectations of a striker in order to dilute the criticism lukaku is due.

 

I seen a poor striker in lukaku when everyone was saying he was great.

 

No one on here in May had any opinion whatsoever that Martinez was the wrong man. Everyone was delighted with him. Almost qualified for champions league playing the best football we had for years.

 

All of a sudden when he is not doing the business it's the old "I told you all this when he came to the club, Wigan leaked goals, blah blah blah"

 

don't get me wrong I'm fuckin pissed off. But all this I told you so is fickle at best.

[Newty82]

It wasn't a pop at you Haf or at Paddock tbh. It's more of a gentle nudge that actually we all feel strongly about something and go on about it...so why block someone but also act the same way? Isn't it just 'passion' for the club???

 

And agree 100% Rom. Players coming back from injuries too soon are causing more problems than they are solving.

 

I think Roberto will learn a hell of a lot from this season. Hopefully.

[bluenosetoffee]

I think some of the decisions Martinez has made this season have been questionable. The fact of the matter is that we aren't actually playing bad, the only teams that have scored more goals are the top 6 at the moment. Even Liverpool have only scored 22 goals compared to our 29. The problem is our defence is falling apart. We have made more defensive errors than any other team this season.

[Hafnia]

Too much "pass it out the back". Last season they actually did do the occasional long hoof to relieve pressure. It worked, we mixed it up.

 

You would need to buy pique, ramos and a couple of others to play the ball out of defence.

[Matt]

Too much "pass it out the back". Last season they actually did do the occasional long hoof to relieve pressure. It worked, we mixed it up.

 

You would need to buy pique, ramos and a couple of others to play the ball out of defence.

Think we've resorted to hoof-ball too often, using the striker (regardless of who is playing) as a target man. Theres no one following up to support that target man. We need to get the ball to the DMC who must spread the ball around much more, rather than this tippy-tappy bullshit that possession football brings. We need variety and creativity.

[chalkpie]

It wasn't that you were ignored as such...It was that it was in the middle of a 'live' game day thread so no one would have the time to answer!!!

 

I don't think you'll get a set answer on why what when where...but keep reading back in the forum and you'll get some various, and interesting, views. Also Google Everton and read some articles.

 

As for the bickering...If it doesn't involve you, take it with a pinch of salt and laugh at it. It's all a bit daft at times but it's mostly us English men who think we know it all about football and therefore our own view is dead right. It's nothing more than a bit of macho testosterone...we're just a bunch of bitches.

 

Enjoy and welcome!!!

 

Thanks for the welcome man. Understood on the live game thing - but remember I'm 5 hours behind you bloody bastards

 

This place looks great the more I read and re-read.

[chalkpie]

. We need variety and creativity.

 

That is the key right there me thinks. If last season was a fluke, what a fluke it was. At least we aren't the only Liverpool club that is shitting the bed.

[chalkpie]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/andy-gray-fears-everton-fc-8355143

[AlbanyNYToffee]

I'll never jump ship on this club and I still love Roberto but he is unquestionably at fault for this run of form. UNQUESTIONABLY!

 

Passion/Spirit starts from the top. His calm demeanor has proven fruitful before but in slides like this one you need to change it up. Players/people react to a typically calm man going absolutely nuts every once in a while.

 

I AM SO F***ING SICK OF SEEING PLAYERS OUT OF POSITION. It's been 5-7 games in a row now with players all over the place!! MESSI WOULD BE A SHIT LEFT BACK, RIGHT BACK, DEFENSIVE MID. SCHWEINSTEIGER WOULD BE A SHIT STRIKER. RONALDO WOULD BE A SHIT CENTER BACK. STOP PLAYING PEOPLE OUT OF POSITION, THEY SIMPLY ARENT GOOD ENOUGH. Baines will never be a midfielder, McCarthy will never be an attacking option, Eto'o cant play on the wing. Barkley cant play on the wing.

 

I would much rather trot out 3 academy players playing in their natural positions than put out that shit on a consistent basis. Play Eto'o down the middle or dont play him at all. Play Barkley in the 10 role or dont play him at all. Play Baines as a LB or dont play him at all. Play McCarthy as DM or dont play him at all. Play Naismith down the middle or dont play him at all.

[Matt]

I'll never jump ship on this club and I still love Roberto but he is unquestionably at fault for this run of form. UNQUESTIONABLY!

 

Passion/Spirit starts from the top. His calm demeanor has proven fruitful before but in slides like this one you need to change it up. Players/people react to a typically calm man going absolutely nuts every once in a while.

 

I AM SO F***ING SICK OF SEEING PLAYERS OUT OF POSITION. It's been 5-7 games in a row now with players all over the place!! MESSI WOULD BE A SHIT LEFT BACK, RIGHT BACK, DEFENSIVE MID. SCHWEINSTEIGER WOULD BE A SHIT STRIKER. RONALDO WOULD BE A SHIT CENTER BACK. STOP PLAYING PEOPLE OUT OF POSITION, THEY SIMPLY ARENT GOOD ENOUGH. Baines will never be a midfielder, McCarthy will never be an attacking option, Eto'o cant play on the wing. Barkley cant play on the wing.

 

I would much rather trot out 3 academy players playing in their natural positions than put out that shit on a consistent basis. Play Eto'o down the middle or dont play him at all. Play Barkley in the 10 role or dont play him at all. Play Baines as a LB or dont play him at all. Play McCarthy as DM or dont play him at all. Play Naismith down the middle or dont play him at all.

Spot on. I'd add that its not just playing them in their natural position, but also start playing to peoples strengths to get confidence going again rather than enforcing new tactics which people aren't adapting quick enough to (by the way Roberto, that is what pre-season is for). Thats not just Rom by the way, its true of Barkley and all the defensive line.

[Romey 1878]

I'll never jump ship on this club and I still love Roberto but he is unquestionably at fault for this run of form. UNQUESTIONABLY!

 

Passion/Spirit starts from the top. His calm demeanor has proven fruitful before but in slides like this one you need to change it up. Players/people react to a typically calm man going absolutely nuts every once in a while.

 

I AM SO F***ING SICK OF SEEING PLAYERS OUT OF POSITION. It's been 5-7 games in a row now with players all over the place!! MESSI WOULD BE A SHIT LEFT BACK, RIGHT BACK, DEFENSIVE MID. SCHWEINSTEIGER WOULD BE A SHIT STRIKER. RONALDO WOULD BE A SHIT CENTER BACK. STOP PLAYING PEOPLE OUT OF POSITION, THEY SIMPLY ARENT GOOD ENOUGH. Baines will never be a midfielder, McCarthy will never be an attacking option, Eto'o cant play on the wing. Barkley cant play on the wing.

 

I would much rather trot out 3 academy players playing in their natural positions than put out that shit on a consistent basis. Play Eto'o down the middle or dont play him at all. Play Barkley in the 10 role or dont play him at all. Play Baines as a LB or dont play him at all. Play McCarthy as DM or dont play him at all. Play Naismith down the middle or dont play him at all.

 

A man after my own heart. Playing players out of position is one of my biggest annoyances and, like you, I would rather bring in a kid from the reserves if it's their natural position.

[Paddock]

You do realise that the amount of times you've taken opportunity to talk this way (and the rest of the Martinez stuff) is exactly the same as Haf and Lukaku?

 

We'll wait and see.

Sorry I thought this was the "has Martinez got it wrong thread"

 

It's also inly mentioned in comment when Martinez is being discussed or when questions are being asked. If you would care to point out where I've mentioned the subject out of context or not in a direct response to where the teams performances are being disected or questioned I'd be interested to see where I'd done it.

 

Massive distance to bringing it into EVERY single thread virtually on the board.

[Lowensda]

I'll never jump ship on this club and I still love Roberto but he is unquestionably at fault for this run of form. UNQUESTIONABLY!

 

Passion/Spirit starts from the top. His calm demeanor has proven fruitful before but in slides like this one you need to change it up. Players/people react to a typically calm man going absolutely nuts every once in a while.

 

I AM SO F***ING SICK OF SEEING PLAYERS OUT OF POSITION. It's been 5-7 games in a row now with players all over the place!! MESSI WOULD BE A SHIT LEFT BACK, RIGHT BACK, DEFENSIVE MID. SCHWEINSTEIGER WOULD BE A SHIT STRIKER. RONALDO WOULD BE A SHIT CENTER BACK. STOP PLAYING PEOPLE OUT OF POSITION, THEY SIMPLY ARENT GOOD ENOUGH. Baines will never be a midfielder, McCarthy will never be an attacking option, Eto'o cant play on the wing. Barkley cant play on the wing.

 

I would much rather trot out 3 academy players playing in their natural positions than put out that shit on a consistent basis. Play Eto'o down the middle or dont play him at all. Play Barkley in the 10 role or dont play him at all. Play Baines as a LB or dont play him at all. Play McCarthy as DM or dont play him at all. Play Naismith down the middle or dont play him at all.

Thank Christ. You've saved a lot of people from writing that. My thoughts exactly.

[Newty82]

Sorry I thought this was the "has Martinez got it wrong thread"

 

It's also inly mentioned in comment when Martinez is being discussed or when questions are being asked. If you would care to point out where I've mentioned the subject out of context or not in a direct response to where the teams performances are being disected or questioned I'd be interested to see where I'd done it.

 

Massive distance to bringing it into EVERY single thread virtually on the board.

I will indeed...If you'd care to point out where I mentioned you had said anything out of context etc etc.

 

Drop the shield and sword...not everything is a personal attack to get defensive about.

 

I got bored of all the to and thro pointless arguing a while ago.

[markjazzbassist]

I'll never jump ship on this club and I still love Roberto but he is unquestionably at fault for this run of form. UNQUESTIONABLY!

 

Passion/Spirit starts from the top. His calm demeanor has proven fruitful before but in slides like this one you need to change it up. Players/people react to a typically calm man going absolutely nuts every once in a while.

 

I AM SO F***ING SICK OF SEEING PLAYERS OUT OF POSITION. It's been 5-7 games in a row now with players all over the place!! MESSI WOULD BE A SHIT LEFT BACK, RIGHT BACK, DEFENSIVE MID. SCHWEINSTEIGER WOULD BE A SHIT STRIKER. RONALDO WOULD BE A SHIT CENTER BACK. STOP PLAYING PEOPLE OUT OF POSITION, THEY SIMPLY ARENT GOOD ENOUGH. Baines will never be a midfielder, McCarthy will never be an attacking option, Eto'o cant play on the wing. Barkley cant play on the wing.

 

I would much rather trot out 3 academy players playing in their natural positions than put out that shit on a consistent basis. Play Eto'o down the middle or dont play him at all. Play Barkley in the 10 role or dont play him at all. Play Baines as a LB or dont play him at all. Play McCarthy as DM or dont play him at all. Play Naismith down the middle or dont play him at all.

 

you act as if RM never thought of that? he obviously knows that, and probably had the academy lads in practice doing just that. but when he saw them getting torched by the likes of aiden championship mcgeady and christian no show atsu and bobby realized "it would be better to play barkley out of position because that is still better than atsu". managers do it ALL THE TIME. look at any other squad outside the top 5. people play out of position and managers experiment and made due when there are injuries and suspensions. get a grip fellas, theres a reason you're all accountant and shit and not football managers, it's not just your waist size.

Edited December 29, 2014 by markjazzbassist

[MC11]

Mark it's ok playing players out of position but not playing 3 players who crave a central role.

[Newty82]

I think it's a bit daft to use over the top exaggerations to argue against Martinez. Using examples like Messi at left back etc. Has Martinez played Lukaku at Centre Back? Or Eto'o as left back?

 

Things have to he tried when shit hits the fan with injuries. And footballers at this high level should be able to do a bit of adjusting.

 

Look at Man City...Milner as a striker the last 2 or 3 games.

 

I guess what we need to realise is that Martinez maybe already knows that McGeady, Atsu and Pienaar aren't up to it. So when Mirallas is injured, who can he play out wide? He can only pop his best talent out there and hope they do a job. Hence Barkley, Eto'o and Naismith being played.

 

I was a loud critic of those 3 being played together, as I was when he used no subs the other week. But maybe now we know why? It's just a thought.

 

It's sometimes a case of 'what's the better of 2 evils'...play lesser talent in their right position or ask better talent to play slightly out of position?

 

Whatever, you can certainly add my name to the list of peeps who want to see one or 2 wide players in January.

[Sibdane]

I think it's a bit daft to use over the top exaggerations to argue against Martinez. Using examples like Messi at left back etc. Has Martinez played Lukaku at Centre Back? Or Eto'o as left back?

 

Things have to he tried when shit hits the fan with injuries. And footballers at this high level should be able to do a bit of adjusting.

 

Look at Man City...Milner as a striker the last 2 or 3 games.

 

I guess what we need to realise is that Martinez maybe already knows that McGeady, Atsu and Pienaar aren't up to it. So when Mirallas is injured, who can he play out wide? He can only pop his best talent out there and hope they do a job. Hence Barkley, Eto'o and Naismith being played.

 

I was a loud critic of those 3 being played together, as I was when he used no subs the other week. But maybe now we know why? It's just a thought.

 

It's sometimes a case of 'what's the better of 2 evils'...play lesser talent in their right position or ask better talent to play slightly out of position?

 

Whatever, you can certainly add my name to the list of peeps who want to see one or 2 wide players in January.

 

I echo this sentiment a bit. Give me Barkley/Eto'o/Lukaku/Naismith out wide over McGeady any day.

[MC11]

I echo this sentiment a bit. Give me Barkley/Eto'o/Lukaku/Naismith out wide over McGeady any day.

Out of all those you mention Lukaku suits playing out wide the most and that's saying something. None of them should be playing wide.

[Sibdane]

Out of all those you mention Lukaku suits playing out wide the most and that's saying something. None of them should be playing wide.

I agree with you that none of them should, but neither should McGeady.

[MC11]

I agree with you that none of them should, but neither should McGeady.

Good wide players are like rocking horse shit. In Mirallas we have a proper wide player and he is without doubt the only player who is ready for CL football in the squad. He'd walk in 75% of the sides on the champions league. He is going to leave. When he goes we'll really see how narrow we are.

 

Martinez is fully to blame for the lack of width. He brought in Atsu and Mcgeady who are both shite... He's left us with square pegs.

Edited December 29, 2014 by MC11

[Sibdane]

Good wide players are like rocking horse shit. In Mirallas we have a proper wide player and he is without doubt the only player who is ready for CL football in the squad. He'd walk in 75% of the sides on the champions league. He is going to leave. When he goes we'll really see how narrow we are.

 

Martinez is fully to blame for the lack of width. He brought in Atsu and Mcgeady who are both shite... He's left us with square pegs.

 

He's really the only winger we have in my eyes. We desperately need another winger in the Jan window. If Mirallas could stay fit, he'd be worth so much more to us.

Edited December 29, 2014 by TonkaRoost

[MC11]

 

He's really the only winger we have in my eyes. We desperately need another winger in the Jan window. If Mirallas could stay fit, he'd be worth so much more to us.

Wingers like Mirallas don't stay fit for full seasons. All "sprinters" get injuries. Bale, Ronaldo, Messi all miss games through injury.

[Sibdane]

Wingers like Mirallas don't stay fit for full seasons. All "sprinters" get injuries. Bale, Ronaldo, Messi all miss games through injury.

That's not the point I was making, but either way, it doesn't take away from the notion that he would be more valuable if he could stay fit.

 

I also don't think Messi & Ronaldo miss as many games as Mirallas does, and they have much heavier schedules.

[MC11]

That's not the point I was making, but either way, it doesn't take away from the notion that he would be more valuable if he could stay fit.

 

I also don't think Messi & Ronaldo miss as many games as Mirallas does, and they have much heavier schedules.

I've looked into this before today. Messi missed very similar games to Kev in the league last season. Ronaldo also missed around 8 games. I think Kev missed 6 and Messi 7

 

Don't forget Spain get a Christmas break too. You've also got to look at the reserves of those teams. Barcelona and Madrid have a much bigger scope to let players fully heal than us. I think Martinez has rushed a few players back this season....you only have to look at Mirallas, McCarthy & Stones..... Pienaar also still looks goosed.

Edited December 29, 2014 by MC11

[Sibdane]

I've looked into this before today. Messi missed very similar games to Kev in the league last season. Ronaldo also missed around 8 games. I think Kev missed 12.

 

Don't forget Spain get a Christmas break too.

 

Champions' Cup

League cup (which they are more likely to go farther in than Everton in the English equivalent).

Club World Cup (In Madrid's case)

[Newty82]

I've looked into this before today. Messi missed very similar games to Kev in the league last season. Ronaldo also missed around 8 games. I think Kev missed 6 and Messi 7

 

Don't forget Spain get a Christmas break too. You've also got to look at the reserves of those teams. Barcelona and Madrid have a much bigger scope to let players fully heal than us. I think Martinez has rushed a few players back this season....you only have to look at Mirallas, McCarthy & Stones..... Pienaar also still looks goosed.

Appearances in 2013/14

 

Messi 46

 

Ronaldo 47

 

Bale 44

 

Mirallas 37

 

I think Mirallas gets a bit of unfair stick for his injury record but his schedule is no where near that of the 3 players you mention.

 

Certainly I think real explosive sprinters are more prone to hamstring pulls. But I suppose it's all down to individuals.

 

I agree that we need more wingers. I totally disagree with how high up you rate 'Kev'. Did you say he'd walk into 75% of teams or champions league teams or something? I think if that were true we would have had some bids for him. I don't think we've had any? I rate him, and he us valuable to us but he's not 'that' good.