Has Martinez got it wrong?

[Bailey]

http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2015/01/are-wigan-fans-warnings-haunting-martinez/

 

Sounds worryingly familiar!

 

I watched a lot of Wigan and this isn't true, well not entirely.

 

Martinez believes in his plan A and that eventually it will break a team down and it doesn't matter whether it comes in the first or the last minute. He changed his set up at Wigan a bit more than he has done for us this season. His game plan against us for example or Man City in the FA Cup too. At the end of one season Wigan outplayed Spurs, Liverpool, Utd and City some at home and some away. Last season we saw him change his set up from game to game here and there albeit mainly sticking with a main core. The Arsenal game is the main one but we did it in others too.

 

Again with subs he believes that plan A will work. It's bullshit that he doesn't make changes though or they are only 80 mins plus. Some games he won't make any changes but we have seen a few come on at half time, and we have seen plenty come on around 60 mins.

 

In terms of good against some and not against others well that is football. You can't wipe the floor with everyone every week, especially when you had the calibre of players Wigan had. I would have expected that to improve with us and it did last season, unfortunately this year on the whole has been dreadful. Early season we were unlucky to be the better team but dropping silly points to bad goals but now we aren't the better team and we are conceding bad goals.

[Hafnia]

I'm looking at players not just the manager. Some of them are playing like school boys, basic defending. Fuckin stupidity for professional s to play like that.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I'm looking at players not just the manager. Some of them are playing like school boys, basic defending. Fuckin stupidity for professional s to play like that.

 

And even more stupid for a manager to keep picking them despite that

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/barry-horne-roberto-martinez-hasnt-8376363

[rubecula]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/barry-horne-roberto-martinez-hasnt-8376363

Thanks for that Dunc. Not sure I agree with it though.

[chalkpie]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/barry-horne-roberto-martinez-hasnt-8376363

 

Read the response from Dave Brand.

[MC11]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/barry-horne-roberto-martinez-hasnt-8376363

This post underneath is exactly how I see it:

 

I don't think Martinez is the man for the job. I'm not one for calling for managers to be sacked, but I think his time is up.

 

I think the majority if fans were worried when Martinez took over given Wigan had just been relegated and in so conceded a lot of goals.

 

Martinez had a great first season and had us playing football. However, things have not kicked on this season. I am known thinking that last season was due to the fact teams were not used to the way we played and we shocked them.

 

However, this season we are so predictable and easy to set up against. A good example of this was the Spurs game. They knew Martinez likes to play out from the back and play a passing game. So they like numerous teams just pushed high up the pitch, pressurised us and forced errors.

 

The worrying thing for me is that Martinez does not seem to have anything else in his locker like all the great managers do.

 

Using the Spurs game again all that was needed was Everton to start playing a few long balls over the top for players like Lukaku, Mirallas etc to run on to. This then forces the Spurs defence to rethink about pushing up so far. They drop back to counter this which in turn makes the whole team drop back or risk leaving spaces in behind them.

 

I have start to question Martinez's starting 11. Not so much the personnel as we have been unfortunate with injuries, but more his set up and positions he seems to play certain players in.

 

Using the Newcastle game when I saw Baines and Garbutt were both starting I was excited thinking they could form a good partnership down the left just like Baines/Pienaar in their hey day. However, Baines was played more centrally offering no width what so ever. Then you have a world class striker in Eto playing on the left wing spending most of his time covering I at left back.

 

Yes Martinez has us playing football and like people are saying the Everton Way. However, the true Everton Way was passing the football combined with quick attacking football. Under Martinez it is very slow a lethargic. We break then the ball is worked across the pitch, back to defenders etc. I know it's keeping possession, but in so many cases it allows teams to get back behind the ball making it harder to break them down.

 

Look at the two goals we scored against Newcastle they came from quick attacking football one, two passes to get a man into a scoring position.

 

There are two things obvious to me either Martinez has no way of adapting the way he likes to play depending on the opposition to be able to win a game or he is to stubborn to admit things need changing and his way is not working.

 

Either way it means we are in big trouble and I believe true danger of getting relegated. Let's remember he played this way whilst at Wigan and they went down.

 

I must disagree with Barry I think Martinez has lost the dressing room. The players don't look happy and extremely low on confidence. Which again worries me as the one thing we always had was a strong positive dressing room. Even when things were going bad you could see as a team they stood together. That seems to have disappeared.

 

I think Martinez needs to go before are record number of years in top flight football comes to an end.

 

That for me is spot on. As much as we can look at this as a blip in form 4 points from 24 is a terrible return and we really are in the shit!

Edited January 3, 2015 by MC11

[Blue 250]

This post underneath is exactly how I see it:

 

I don't think Martinez is the man for the job. I'm not one for calling for managers to be sacked, but I think his time is up.

 

I think the majority if fans were worried when Martinez took over given Wigan had just been relegated and in so conceded a lot of goals.

 

Martinez had a great first season and had us playing football. However, things have not kicked on this season. I am known thinking that last season was due to the fact teams were not used to the way we played and we shocked them.

 

However, this season we are so predictable and easy to set up against. A good example of this was the Spurs game. They knew Martinez likes to play out from the back and play a passing game. So they like numerous teams just pushed high up the pitch, pressurised us and forced errors.

 

The worrying thing for me is that Martinez does not seem to have anything else in his locker like all the great managers do.

 

Using the Spurs game again all that was needed was Everton to start playing a few long balls over the top for players like Lukaku, Mirallas etc to run on to. This then forces the Spurs defence to rethink about pushing up so far. They drop back to counter this which in turn makes the whole team drop back or risk leaving spaces in behind them.

 

I have start to question Martinez's starting 11. Not so much the personnel as we have been unfortunate with injuries, but more his set up and positions he seems to play certain players in.

 

Using the Newcastle game when I saw Baines and Garbutt were both starting I was excited thinking they could form a good partnership down the left just like Baines/Pienaar in their hey day. However, Baines was played more centrally offering no width what so ever. Then you have a world class striker in Eto playing on the left wing spending most of his time covering I at left back.

 

Yes Martinez has us playing football and like people are saying the Everton Way. However, the true Everton Way was passing the football combined with quick attacking football. Under Martinez it is very slow a lethargic. We break then the ball is worked across the pitch, back to defenders etc. I know it's keeping possession, but in so many cases it allows teams to get back behind the ball making it harder to break them down.

 

Look at the two goals we scored against Newcastle they came from quick attacking football one, two passes to get a man into a scoring position.

 

There are two things obvious to me either Martinez has no way of adapting the way he likes to play depending on the opposition to be able to win a game or he is to stubborn to admit things need changing and his way is not working.

 

Either way it means we are in big trouble and I believe true danger of getting relegated. Let's remember he played this way whilst at Wigan and they went down.

 

I must disagree with Barry I think Martinez has lost the dressing room. The players don't look happy and extremely low on confidence. Which again worries me as the one thing we always had was a strong positive dressing room. Even when things were going bad you could see as a team they stood together. That seems to have disappeared.

 

I think Martinez needs to go before are record number of years in top flight football comes to an end.

 

That for me is spot on. As much as we can look at this as a blip in form 4 points from 24 is a terrible return and we really are in the shit!

 

The really worrying thing for me is we WERE lucky against WBA, QPR we were all mighty glad for the last minute strike against liverpool and to be honest West Ham should probably have had a point from us.Take off 6/7 points from the mega amount we already have.....and you can see why I'm worried.

 

We all want him to turn it around, to be honest I'd be happy if he can keep us up.

 

We are not too big or too good to go down.

[MC11]

The really worrying thing for me is we WERE lucky against WBA, QPR we were all mighty glad for the last minute strike against liverpool and to be honest West Ham should probably have had a point from us.Take off 6/7 points from the mega amount we already have.....and you can see why I'm worried.

 

We all want him to turn it around, to be honest I'd be happy if he can keep us up.

 

We are not too big or too good to go down.

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't want him to turn it around but people are beginning to think he can't. There lies the problem. How long do we give him? Another 4/5 defeats? That might be too late

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://toffeetv.net/everton-fc-perfect-storm/

[Brett Angel]

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't want him to turn it around but people are beginning to think he can't. There lies the problem. How long do we give him? Another 4/5 defeats? That might be too late

When you mention people, you mean you?

[MC11]

When you mention people, you mean you?

There's a lot of people who've lost faith in him.

[FairWooney]

I read these quotes from 2 Wigan fans asked about Martinez after he joined us.

 

Quite interesting as a lot of Everton fans would agree about those comments about him now:

 

" Difficult to say whether he'll be a success. He has a bigger budget & a better squad but he also has far bigger expectations weighing on his shoulders. I think Everton are at the peak of what they can achieve without big financial backing so the only way is down in many respects. At Latics he had very little pressure from either the fans or the chairman & got a great deal of patience even during lengthy runs of defeats. He won't get that anywhere else BUT having more money & (on paper) a better squad may be the spur he needs to show his true potential. "

" I don't think Martinez will replicate the same success of Moyes at Everton. Moyes seems to me like the kind of guy who is always willing to change something if it isn't working, whereas Martinez will beat a dead horse for all it is worth. This rigidity will possibly mean that Everton have periods where his attractive play decimates other teams in the league with a more primitive playing style, but then other teams will be well prepared for his often predictable ethos of focussing all possession down one flank by passing sideways across the pitch, which is easily negated by the opposition playing a wider formation. Therefore, I think under Martinez you will have absolutely blinders and then the next week absolute shockers, but never the same consistency as a manager like Moyes who can prepare a defence for the inevitability of a counter-attack started by a poor pass, which Martinez was utterly hopeless at during his time here. "

" He’s an eloquent speaker but will tell you what you want to hear. He is adept at avoiding difficult questions. It’s far too early to say whether he’ll be a success at Everton but I doubt that he’ll do better than Moyes. He won the FA Cup with us but apart from that his cup runs were poor. "

" As a group, even on this site, we have very mixed opinions. Some members will wildly disagree with me, but my opinion of him isn't very good. Starting with the positives, he's a very nice bloke, total professional, and speaks well, so will be a superb ambassador for the club. He's committed to playing his idea of the beautiful game, so you'll see some beautiful attacking moves. On the down side, based on my experience, however, you'll see 87 minutes of sideways and backwards passing, interspersed with very poor defending. We weren't the best defensive team in terms of quality, but we did have some decent players, but Martínez's defensive coaching must be woeful. When things don't go to plan, you'll not see changes in tactics (or personnel until at least 80 minutes): there is no plan B. The attacking tempo is very slow and our breaks always relied on a single man, so often were stopped in their tracks. Your free kicks will be wasted with short passes when they could easily be put into the box; that's academic though since you'll rarely see more than 1 or 2 players in the box. "

 

If you look at those comments the second one commenting on his rigidity and inability/reluctance to change if something isn't working. Also the poor pass giving goals away through counter attacks. All things we've seen a lot of.

 

Also in final quote regarding some nice attacking football but often long periods of sideways and backwards backing mixed with some poor defending. And importantly NO PLAN B.

 

 

I'm happy to stick with him this season but if we don't see any improvement, ability to adapt to the opposition and change tactics when necessary then his time will be up come the end of the season. The problems are all pretty clear to see yet Martinez seems to struggle to do much about it. Now he's got a lot of players low on confidence and it becomes even more difficult to solve.

 

It's a big test for Martinez whole career I think, if he can't make required changes to make things work then he won't get a job at anywhere near as big a club again.

[MC11]

I read these quotes from 2 Wigan fans asked about Martinez after he joined us.

 

Quite interesting as a lot of Everton fans would agree about those comments about him now:

 

" Difficult to say whether he'll be a success. He has a bigger budget & a better squad but he also has far bigger expectations weighing on his shoulders. I think Everton are at the peak of what they can achieve without big financial backing so the only way is down in many respects. At Latics he had very little pressure from either the fans or the chairman & got a great deal of patience even during lengthy runs of defeats. He won't get that anywhere else BUT having more money & (on paper) a better squad may be the spur he needs to show his true potential. "" I don't think Martinez will replicate the same success of Moyes at Everton. Moyes seems to me like the kind of guy who is always willing to change something if it isn't working, whereas Martinez will beat a dead horse for all it is worth. This rigidity will possibly mean that Everton have periods where his attractive play decimates other teams in the league with a more primitive playing style, but then other teams will be well prepared for his often predictable ethos of focussing all possession down one flank by passing sideways across the pitch, which is easily negated by the opposition playing a wider formation. Therefore, I think under Martinez you will have absolutely blinders and then the next week absolute shockers, but never the same consistency as a manager like Moyes who can prepare a defence for the inevitability of a counter-attack started by a poor pass, which Martinez was utterly hopeless at during his time here. "" He’s an eloquent speaker but will tell you what you want to hear. He is adept at avoiding difficult questions. It’s far too early to say whether he’ll be a success at Everton but I doubt that he’ll do better than Moyes. He won the FA Cup with us but apart from that his cup runs were poor. "" As a group, even on this site, we have very mixed opinions. Some members will wildly disagree with me, but my opinion of him isn't very good. Starting with the positives, he's a very nice bloke, total professional, and speaks well, so will be a superb ambassador for the club. He's committed to playing his idea of the beautiful game, so you'll see some beautiful attacking moves. On the down side, based on my experience, however, you'll see 87 minutes of sideways and backwards passing, interspersed with very poor defending. We weren't the best defensive team in terms of quality, but we did have some decent players, but Martínez's defensive coaching must be woeful. When things don't go to plan, you'll not see changes in tactics (or personnel until at least 80 minutes): there is no plan B. The attacking tempo is very slow and our breaks always relied on a single man, so often were stopped in their tracks. Your free kicks will be wasted with short passes when they could easily be put into the box; that's academic though since you'll rarely see more than 1 or 2 players in the box. "

 

If you look at those comments the second one commenting on his rigidity and inability/reluctance to change if something isn't working. Also the poor pass giving goals away through counter attacks. All things we've seen a lot of.

 

Also in final quote regarding some nice attacking football but often long periods of sideways and backwards backing mixed with some poor defending. And importantly NO PLAN B.

 

 

I'm happy to stick with him this season but if we don't see any improvement, ability to adapt to the opposition and change tactics when necessary then his time will be up come the end of the season. The problems are all pretty clear to see yet Martinez seems to struggle to do much about it. Now he's got a lot of players low on confidence and it becomes even more difficult to solve.

 

It's a big test for Martinez whole career I think, if he can't make required changes to make things work then he won't get a job at anywhere near as big a club again.

It's funny how specific those quotes are and how the season is panning out. Martinez syndrome looks to be setting in here.

[EFC-Paul]

It's funny how specific those quotes are and how the season is panning out. Martinez syndrome looks to be setting in here.

Was just about to say the same frighteningly accurate and worrying really

[Hafnia]

Strangely I did a similar piece on Moyes for a Man United fanzine which was highly accurate...

 

The reason its accurate is that these guys have traits. Overcoming these traits is the key to becoming top managers. I said all along if Moyes could evolve he could have been a great.

 

Worryingly we are now watching to see if Roberto can see the warning signs and do something about it.

[Blue 250]

Strangely I did a similar piece on Moyes for a Man United fanzine which was highly accurate...

 

The reason its accurate is that these guys have traits. Overcoming these traits is the key to becoming top managers. I said all along if Moyes could evolve he could have been a great.

 

Worryingly we are now watching to see if Roberto can see the warning signs and do something about it.

He didn't see the warning signs at Wigan, and he sure as fuc% seems determined to keep us to plan 'A'.

 

Moyes is stil young, the shit he had at United and his new adventures abroard will probably bring him on.

 

Martinez also, is still young, I just hope he doesn't fuck us up as part of his learning curve.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/barclays-premier-league/23/video/2229218

[Paddock]

Harsh but brutaly honest and true.

[Matt]

Strangely I did a similar piece on Moyes for a Man United fanzine which was highly accurate...

 

really? Be interested to see that

[MC11]

 

 

really? Be interested to see that .

I'd like to see it too.

Edited January 5, 2015 by MC11

[Hafnia]

Just looked. It's not on there anymore. Only 2 moyes articles on the blog, recent ones. It was just as he was announced as their manager.

[Matt]

Just looked. It's not on there anymore. Only 2 moyes articles on the blog, recent ones. It was just as he was announced as their manager.

did you post it on here?

[Hafnia]

No stretfordenders. A man united fan came on here asking for opinions.

[chalkpie]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/everton-fc-boss-roberto-martinez-8388186

 

Martinez is seriously a crackhead if he believes this bullshit. Attack, attack, attack? Really? Where are those goals he speaks of?

 

“The stat I like is ‘winning football games’". What? Well, where are these wins my friend?

[MC11]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/everton-fc-boss-roberto-martinez-8388186

 

Martinez is seriously a crackhead if he believes this bullshit. Attack, attack, attack? Really? Where are those goals he speaks of?

 

“The stat I like is ‘winning football games’". What? Well, where are these wins my friend?[/size]

I like the thinking behind "you score 4, we'll score 5" at the end of the day I don't care how we win as long as we do!

 

However actions speak louder than words and we've looked mediocre in the final third all season.

[Hafnia]

I'd quite like to see us set up to scoring more goals from indirect set pieces (inc corners)... maybe then we could get 5 in a game...

[Lowensda]

I'd quite like it if we just scored more than whoever we're playing. Don't care if its direct, indirect, open play, gust of wind or an own goal.

[FairWooney]

we haven't looked like scoring many goals in many of our games which is the problem!

 

We have the ball, we play it around, teams feel pretty comfortable, press us a bit, we make a mistake and concede. That happens more times than us getting decent chances to score goals!

[MC11]

we haven't looked like scoring many goals in many of our games which is the problem!

 

We have the ball, we play it around, teams feel pretty comfortable, press us a bit, we make a mistake and concede. That happens more times than us getting decent chances to score goals!

Story of this season mate. Hope we turn it around.