MikeO Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 we haven't looked like scoring many goals in many of our games which is the problem! And yet only six teams have scored more than us. Only QPR have conceded more so it's pretty plain the main problem's at the other end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Agreed mike. And I definately shoulder some blame to RM, bad tactics (I want the 433 back), rushing players back from injury to get injured again, and bad subs. But I shoulder most of it to the players. Coleman in light of last season has been very pedestrian, Howard fell off so fast after the WC, jags was rusty for the first 12 matches or so, and distins finally past it. 4 of our back 5 is playing bad, Baines the only solid one. A healthy stones and firing jags, Robles playing for a spot or a new keeper, and Coleman re-finding defense could go A LONG WAY for us. Deacs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.football365.com/f365-says/9634852/F365-Says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.football365.com/f365-says/9634852/F365-Says Good article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Martinez has quite a different philosophy from Gordon Lee, I remember a 4 - 4 draw against Newcastle a cracking match and Gordon saying only a fool would have enjoyed that. It is a balance and Roberto needs to realise this is a big club and skirting relegation will not match football doctrines. MC11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-must-not-sucked-relegation-8398662 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearso Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/everton-fc-saviour-romelu-lukaku-8402788 All the speculation about dressing room unrest and frustration at Martinez's tactics would obviously never get fed from any of the players or Bobby himself, but Lukaku has admitted the players asked to play more direct vs West Ham and he reckons that's why he had a cracking game. Couldn't agree more. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I would say its the sign of a good manager if he listens to others and doesn't assume he's correct Being adaptable is good - perhaps this is a lesson for a young manager like Martinez? It's a shame its City next we could do with a bit of momentum Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/everton-fc-saviour-romelu-lukaku-8402788 All the speculation about dressing room unrest and frustration at Martinez's tactics would obviously never get fed from any of the players or Bobby himself, but Lukaku has admitted the players asked to play more direct vs West Ham and he reckons that's why he had a cracking game. Couldn't agree more. Go take a look at the Lukaku thread, I think you'll find an opposing view . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I would say its the sign of a good manager if he listens to others and doesn't assume he's correct Being adaptable is good - perhaps this is a lesson for a young manager like Martinez? It's a shame its City next we could do with a bit of momentum being adaptable is essential. Agree with the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Didn't Moyes admit he had to make changes to his style after the first season here? Martinez is 41 years of age. He's learning but he's not going to admit that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I am more hopeful that Martinez will, in time find players who can adapt to his methods, because if done correctly, is a great way to play. Don't get me wrong I do think you need to mix it up a bit but you can't tell me that plan (A) doesn't work 99% of the time. Look at Barcelona, they have never changed there style of play and only a handful of teams have sussed them out. I firmly believe that if Martinez takes a more foreign approach on our squad he will get what he's looking for. We can forever say that the likes of Jags, Coleman, McCarthy, Distin....are all good players but these ate good British styled players. They do not have it in there locker whereby when they are cornered in a tight spot on the pitch, guard the ball and have the brains to play a short pass. This cannot be taught. It's ok to do it on the training pitch where there is nothing to lose but when there is 40,000 screaming at you when you get in these positions, it takes mental strength and your own confidence to get you out. Only certain player have this. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I am more hopeful that Martinez will, in time find players who can adapt to his methods, because if done correctly, is a great way to play. Don't get me wrong I do think you need to mix it up a bit but you can't tell me that plan (A) doesn't work 99% of the time. Look at Barcelona, they have never changed there style of play and only a handful of teams have sussed them out. I firmly believe that if Martinez takes a more foreign approach on our squad he will get what he's looking for. We can forever say that the likes of Jags, Coleman, McCarthy, Distin....are all good players but these ate good British styled players. They do not have it in there locker whereby when they are cornered in a tight spot on the pitch, guard the ball and have the brains to play a short pass. This cannot be taught. It's ok to do it on the training pitch where there is nothing to lose but when there is 40,000 screaming at you when you get in these positions, it takes mental strength and your own confidence to get you out. Only certain player have this. Yeah but teams have seemed to have sussed it though. We don't have Barcelona players. When we play a team if they put pressure on us we will crumble, we just need a bit of tempo added into the game but again this is Martinez way because he likes patient style passing and trying to find an opening. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I am more hopeful that Martinez will, in time find players who can adapt to his methods, because if done correctly, is a great way to play. Don't get me wrong I do think you need to mix it up a bit but you can't tell me that plan (A) doesn't work 99% of the time. Look at Barcelona, they have never changed there style of play and only a handful of teams have sussed them out. I firmly believe that if Martinez takes a more foreign approach on our squad he will get what he's looking for. We can forever say that the likes of Jags, Coleman, McCarthy, Distin....are all good players but these ate good British styled players. They do not have it in there locker whereby when they are cornered in a tight spot on the pitch, guard the ball and have the brains to play a short pass. This cannot be taught. It's ok to do it on the training pitch where there is nothing to lose but when there is 40,000 screaming at you when you get in these positions, it takes mental strength and your own confidence to get you out. Only certain player have this. Good post, Brett. Like Bluenose says though, we don't have the players Barca do, so in the meantime we have to adapt the style of play to get the best out of the squad we have. We also don't have the fear factor Barca has. So many teams sit back and try not to concede against them rather than pressurize them. Understandable in La Liga as the gulf in squad quality is nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30735905 Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30735905 Pretty much spot on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30735905Wow, when you look at the stats and comparison of last season we're a totally different side. Especially getting the ball into the box. What's changed there and why aren't we putting balls in as frequently. It's looks like Martinez has gone into overdrive for more possession - which isn't working. That's a decent write up by Savage but I don't agree with him singling out Distin. He's been poor but if he's basing other things on individual errors. I don't see why he's using win ratios against Distin. Surely we should be looking at those who are consistently making the errors as well. He does give Barry some critisicm but doesn't show win ratio stats (which don't include draws anyway) with him in the side (maybe it's not that bad). Barry has probably made the most individual error on my recollection. Edited January 9, 2015 by MC11 Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30735905 If Savage actually did his research he would find out that Alcaraz missing from Wigans team was a contributory factor in them being relegated not because of his inclusion - they conceded an average of 2 goals a game without him and 1.4 with him. He won 92% of his tackles in the games he played in their last season, was ranked in the top 10 for interceptions. People talk about getting the ball to lukaku quicker - for me its not a siple case of that - clear the lines means less chances of making a stupid mistake at the back - granted, and yes i'm sick and tired of conceding goals due to stupid errors. Look at lukakus goals last year, the majority were balls played from the flanks - not from direct balls or through balls. And yes, that is why the number of crosses into the box is telling. The most accurate thing he says is:- "he needs to show they can defend and win when they are not playing well. So far, that has not happened." Other than that it looks like Savage has done his research on Grand old team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 If Savage actually did his research he would find out that Alcaraz missing from Wigans team was a contributory factor in them being relegated not because of his inclusion - they conceded an average of 2 goals a game without him and 1.4 with him. He won 92% of his tackles in the games he played in their last season, was ranked in the top 10 for interceptions. People talk about getting the ball to lukaku quicker - for me its not a siple case of that - clear the lines means less chances of making a stupid mistake at the back - granted, and yes i'm sick and tired of conceding goals due to stupid errors. Look at lukakus goals last year, the majority were balls played from the flanks - not from direct balls or through balls. And yes, that is why the number of crosses into the box is telling. The most accurate thing he says is:- "he needs to show they can defend and win when they are not playing well. So far, that has not happened." Other than that it looks like Savage has done his research on Grand old team. Oh so, Lukakus goals last year, the majority were balls played from the flanks ! These ' people ' that talk about getting the ball to Lukaku quicker, what they want is any ball ! from the flanks, from the back, infact from any friggin angle, just get the ball to the danger man. It's what they did more of against West Ham, it's what they did last season.It doesn't matter if it's him or Kone/Naismith if you don't give them the right service they wont score. We are fucking about with it and not hurting opponents, that is down to Martinezs' tactics. We were more direct last season, you don't need your stats for that one, this year with a loss of form from quite a few players, and opponents getting wise to us, it just isn't working.So you change things. Martinez/we got lucky last season, everyone was playing to their strengths, it clicked almost better than we could have hoped for. This season he persisted with it even when most could see he needed to change it. ' Has Martinez got it wrong ', this season without doubt.Opponents can probably pick their team to play against us, they know what formation and tactics we will employ. Lowest point of the season for me and there have been many, was Hull City at Goodison, out thought by Steve Bruce, who's only instruction shouted across a silent Goodison was ' PUSH UP '. When you see players of the quality of Baines, Coleman, Jags, Stones, Mirallas, Lukaku and a good few others, I can't fathom how we have become so predictable. Matt and MC11 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't see how you can be lucky over 38 games. Teams found a way to play against us and that's evolving. Martinez has shown indications that he will evolve. Let's see how he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/danny-higginbotham-beautiful-game-must-change-or-everton-will-learn-ugly-truth-9969064.html How can that be? Because Martinez keeps insisting on wanting to play a beautiful game. If he thinks a beautiful game is the way to get the team out of trouble then he’s got another think coming. I’ve certainly never heard of anyone surviving that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Oh so, Lukakus goals last year, the majority were balls played from the flanks ! These ' people ' that talk about getting the ball to Lukaku quicker, what they want is any ball ! from the flanks, from the back, infact from any friggin angle, just get the ball to the danger man. It's what they did more of against West Ham, it's what they did last season.It doesn't matter if it's him or Kone/Naismith if you don't give them the right service they wont score. We are fucking about with it and not hurting opponents, that is down to Martinezs' tactics. We were more direct last season, you don't need your stats for that one, this year with a loss of form from quite a few players, and opponents getting wise to us, it just isn't working.So you change things. Martinez/we got lucky last season, everyone was playing to their strengths, it clicked almost better than we could have hoped for. This season he persisted with it even when most could see he needed to change it. ' Has Martinez got it wrong ', this season without doubt.Opponents can probably pick their team to play against us, they know what formation and tactics we will employ. Lowest point of the season for me and there have been many, was Hull City at Goodison, out thought by Steve Bruce, who's only instruction shouted across a silent Goodison was ' PUSH UP '. When you see players of the quality of Baines, Coleman, Jags, Stones, Mirallas, Lukaku and a good few others, I can't fathom how we have become so predictable. Breath of fresh air this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think if Martinez gets the sack there will be 1000's of applicants. Savage, Higginbotham, lukaku, grand old team posters, it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think if Martinez gets the sack there will be 1000's of applicants. Savage, Higginbotham, lukaku, grand old team posters, it's all good. Huh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think if Martinez gets the sack there will be 1000's of applicants.Savage, Higginbotham, lukaku, grand old team posters, it's all good.m You are the fountain of knowledge maybe you should apply. Buy 11 McCarthys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2903811/JAMIE-CARRAGHER-Everton-worst-run-10-years-fans-Roberto-Martinez.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2903811/JAMIE-CARRAGHER-Everton-worst-run-10-years-fans-Roberto-Martinez.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 Surprising coming from the red shite, but spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 m You are the fountain of knowledge maybe you should apply. Buy 11 McCarthys You watching team America again to brush up on current affairs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't see how you can be lucky over 38 games. Teams found a way to play against us and that's evolving. Martinez has shown indications that he will evolve. Let's see how he does. I didn't say we were lucky over 38 games last season ! I said Martinez 'got lucky' in that his squad/team all played to the top of their games, and his tactics caught teams out.Midfield clicked, Coleman and Baines were far better last season, Naismith had an excellent season etc. We didn't have so many injuries which also helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2903811/JAMIE-CARRAGHER-Everton-worst-run-10-years-fans-Roberto-Martinez.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 The lad talks sense, simple as that. Interesting, well thought, and refreshing after reading that shite savage spewed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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