Michael Keane

[patto]

1 hour ago, RPG said:

For Wolves, I would go with a back four of Kenny  Keane  Godfrey & Mykolenko

If Keane is not available or not selected for whatever reason, then Holgate in his place and keep your fingers crossed.

Keep your fingers crossed is right. 
I think Lampard will go with 3 at the back with Coleman and Mykolenko on the flanks we’re at home and have got to attack. 

[London Blue]

Holgate has played better than Keane recently, I much prefer him and Godfrey as centre backs with Kenny and Mykolenko, midfield of Alan,  Doucoure and VDB with Grey, Richie, and DCL. 

Last match Coleman and Doucoure went way to high and spurs hit us on the counter to perfection, which they are set up to do. 

Against Wolves we have to press and attack but can't have players out of position who can't get back or are low on confidence. 

[Zoo 2.0]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

Holgate has played better than Keane recently, I much prefer him and Godfrey as centre backs with Kenny and Mykolenko, midfield of Alan,  Doucoure and VDB with Grey, Richie, and DCL. 

Bit like saying that wearing aftershave is better than shitting in your hands and clapping.

[Matt]

8 hours ago, patto said:

Name your defence then.

Kenny Holgate Godrey Myko

I know it looks scary but honestly which combination doesn't? At least this gives the young lads a chance to establish themselves which is more motivation than we've seen from any combination this season. 

[Gwlad]

Only if Mykolenko is mentally fit to play.

[Bailey]

6 hours ago, London Blue said:

Holgate has played better than Keane recently, I much prefer him and Godfrey as centre backs with Kenny and Mykolenko, midfield of Alan,  Doucoure and VDB with Grey, Richie, and DCL. 

Last match Coleman and Doucoure went way to high and spurs hit us on the counter to perfection, which they are set up to do. 

Against Wolves we have to press and attack but can't have players out of position who can't get back or are low on confidence. 

Holgate was a compete disaster on Monday. I have never seen anything like that before at this level. 

Keane will get the headlines and rightly so because he made some real schoolboy errors but I still cant believe what I saw from Holgate. 

Without Mina, our defence is a complete shambles but I also think he would have struggled against Spurs. I can see a similar thing happening against Wolves if we try and play that high up the pitch against their quality attacking players.

[London Blue]

10 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Holgate was a compete disaster on Monday. I have never seen anything like that before at this level. 

Keane will get the headlines and rightly so because he made some real schoolboy errors but I still cant believe what I saw from Holgate. 

Without Mina, our defence is a complete shambles but I also think he would have struggled against Spurs. I can see a similar thing happening against Wolves if we try and play that high up the pitch against their quality attacking players.

Everyone went to bits after the third goal, but Holgate had to cover a partner in Keane who's head was not in the game, and Coleman who kept getting caught out. There was not enough midfield cover as Doucoure and VDB were way too high up the pitch.

Don't get me wrong he is not Ferdinand, but prior to this game he has played well.

[StevO]

39 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Everyone went to bits after the third goal, but Holgate had to cover a partner in Keane who's head was not in the game, and Coleman who kept getting caught out. There was not enough midfield cover as Doucoure and VDB were way too high up the pitch.

Don't get me wrong he is not Ferdinand, but prior to this game he has played well.

I don’t think Holgate has ever covered for his partner in any game for us. Struggles to look after himself on the pitch, let alone anyone alongside him. 
He’s played better than in recent times, wouldn’t say he’s pulled up any trees myself, but he always does when a new manager comes in and then fades away. It’s really strange, but he always does it. 
 

I personally think he’s a liability. He may not always be the one with the errors, but they always seem to happen around him. Like his partners never have a decent game. 

[Btay]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

I don’t think Holgate has ever covered for his partner in any game for us. Struggles to look after himself on the pitch, let alone anyone alongside him. 
He’s played better than in recent times, wouldn’t say he’s pulled up any trees myself, but he always does when a new manager comes in and then fades away. It’s really strange, but he always does it. 
 

I personally think he’s a liability. He may not always be the one with the errors, but they always seem to happen around him. Like his partners never have a decent game. 

The last paragraph could be because Keane’s normally been his partner and that’s explains that by itself really.

[patto]

8 hours ago, Btay said:

The last paragraph could be because Keane’s normally been his partner and that’s explains that by itself really.

Keane is far better than Holgate and can actually head a ball plus his passing is much better 

[Shukes]

Not being funny guys, but I haven’t ever witnessed a player better than Holgate at playing a ball into space. 
He’s an expert at it…. Best in the team by far!

Plays a ball into space like a GOAT! Big empty spaces! 

[Palfy]

If Keane is well enough I wouldn’t have huge problem with him playing, ideally I would prefer Mina and Godfrey as a first choice, but if they aren’t available I would put Keane in front of Branthwaite and Holgate, he is prone to making the odd mistake but aren’t most of our defence, but what he does possess over Branthwaite and Holgate is experience and there’s no substitute for experience when you’re up against it. 

[Bailey]

19 hours ago, London Blue said:

Everyone went to bits after the third goal, but Holgate had to cover a partner in Keane who's head was not in the game, and Coleman who kept getting caught out. There was not enough midfield cover as Doucoure and VDB were way too high up the pitch.

Don't get me wrong he is not Ferdinand, but prior to this game he has played well.

Keane was covering Holgate from kick off. Holgate was playing his own game out there and was certainly not doing anything to help his partner out. 

 

[StevO]

As shit as he’s playing, Keane is still our best centre half. Feel free to argue Mina is, but if he can’t make it on to the pitch it’s irrelevant. Hopefully Godfrey reaches his potential and becomes a mainstay in the team, same for Branthwaite. 
 

Wouldn’t like to be Frank picking the team on Sunday. 

[Hafnia]

23 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Keane was covering Holgate from kick off. Holgate was playing his own game out there and was certainly not doing anything to help his partner out. 

 

You don’t need to try and defend defenders at the expense of other defenders bailey - they are experts at pointing at what the other person isn’t doing whilst being completely dog shit themselves. 
 

Complete shite.  Coleman…. Mr Everton, lazy passes ball watching and he points at his team mates.

thick the lot of them. 

 

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

As shit as he’s playing, Keane is still our best centre half. Feel free to argue Mina is, but if he can’t make it on to the pitch it’s irrelevant. Hopefully Godfrey reaches his potential and becomes a mainstay in the team, same for Branthwaite. 
 

Wouldn’t like to be Frank picking the team on Sunday. 

Touché 

[London Blue]

Just now, Bailey said:

Keane was covering Holgate from kick off. Holgate was playing his own game out there and was certainly not doing anything to help his partner out. 

 

When I watched the game I saw Holgate looking for Keane quite a bit.

[StevO]

5 minutes ago, London Blue said:

When I watched the game I saw Holgate looking for Keane quite a bit.

I’d rather he was looking for his opponents, doesn’t spend enough time doing that.

[Btay]

Watched the start of the game back and neither are covering each other. Holgate is getting dragged out of position because Coleman was too far forward and no legs to get back. Keane was shocking on more than 1 occasion for getting dragged out and letting both man and ball go past him. Sons early chance that Gordon got back for is an example, along with Sons goal where he allows their winger to get goal side leaving Holgate completely exposed and finally the Harry Kane goal. 

If Keane’s our best centre back than we are well and truly fucked.

[Btay]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Keane was covering Holgate from kick off. Holgate was playing his own game out there and was certainly not doing anything to help his partner out. 

 

Holgate is not great, I don’t think anyone is saying that but at least when he gets dragged out he doesn’t let both ball and man pass. 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Btay said:

Holgate is not great, I don’t think anyone is saying that but at least when he gets dragged out he doesn’t let both ball and man pass. 

He does all the time. 

He was dragged out of position so many times against Spurs and got absolutely nowhere near man or ball.

An example is that first goal. He should be dropping in to support Coleman. He isn't. He should then get in to cover the front post space. He doesn't. 

In that second or third goal, when Keane was looking like a tit up against Kane, why wasn't Holgate tight to the other Spurs player stopping the attack by winning the ball or bringing the player down? He was yards off him. The focus will be Keane because his errors were glaringly obvious but Holgate was at least an equal shit show. 

[Hafnia]

Am I somehow reading that Michael Keane was made to look shit because of Holgate?

he was made to look shit cos he can’t defend unless he’s playing in a low block.  If he was made to look shit because of Holgate being shit then that is a possibility but make no bones about it - Keane was shit.

we can dissect Holgate not doing x y or z. Reality is Keane is fluffing his lines at an alarming rate and should not be playing. 

[Btay]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

He does all the time. 

He was dragged out of position so many times against Spurs and got absolutely nowhere near man or ball.

An example is that first goal. He should be dropping in to support Coleman. He isn't. He should then get in to cover the front post space. He doesn't. 

In that second or third goal, when Keane was looking like a tit up against Kane, why wasn't Holgate tight to the other Spurs player stopping the attack by winning the ball or bringing the player down? He was yards off him. The focus will be Keane because his errors were glaringly obvious but Holgate was at least an equal shit show. 

Sorry but that’s just ridiculous. 1st goal he is keeping half an eye on Son and maintaining the line - Coleman drops way too deep and gets done. If there’s no communication from Holgate then that’s his mistake. Also it’s not great positioning for the cross but it’s all reactive from the moment Coleman was done - Anything back to the edge of the area Holgate should cover - Kane is running off Keane and he tracks him near post, fucks up a simple clearance. Should have been dealt with but should have been avoided from the start.

Second goal - Holgate is marking son and steps into press kulusevski after he skips by the training cone. 

3rd goal - tracks winger, could 100% do better on the second ball, no doubt. Kane runs off Keane through on goal. Smart movement - very very poor defending 

[Romey 1878]

As RPG is suggesting, it doesn't really matter who we play in defence (centrally at least) because they all have their drawbacks.

We could bring Godfrey in but he won't shore us up in the slightest - poor aerially and his positional sense is all over the place. I have a feeling we could see him at LB if we do make a change at RB.

Branthwaite could come in but being a baby means he's got mistakes in him as well.

Mykolenko hasn't had much game time anyway and is still getting used to the league, and has a lot on his mind at the moment.

Kenny could play at RB but we generally know he's not good enough. Defensively suspect - many times he's played he sat deeper than the rest of the defence and plays opposition players onside for fun. Offensively he's no great shakes either.

Patterson is the only real unknown for RB and that's why I'd like to see him play. He's very highly thought of and his first half showing in the cup was absolutely fine and warrants a closer look. However, I am fully expecting to see Coleman starting once again on Sunday. I think that's madness myself but I'll be crossing everything that he doesn't look as shit as he did against Spurs.

[patto]

I’ll be shocked if Gordon doesn’t play I know Patterson won’t play but I hope he’s on the bench 1 thing we can’t do is play JJK at left back give Mykolenko his chance let’s get some balance in the team. 
I’d be tempted to leave Dom out. 

[StevO]

12 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Am I somehow reading that Michael Keane was made to look shit because of Holgate?

 

No, you are not reading that. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

No, you are not reading that. 

What’s all this “Keane was covering Holgate” nonsense then?

can we not just accept that we have two of the worst centre halves in the league and not try and offer excuses up for the one considered less completely shit than the other.

the whole “unfortunate weight on wrong foot” bollocks with the Man City goal was baffling.  If it was an out of shape 35 year old bloke playing in the zingari league you could accept it…. Not a bloody professional. 
 

its like some “I know the art of defending and will prove so be making obscure observations “ workshop. 
 

coleman shite, Keane shite, Holgate shite, kenny not good enough but he’s having a go in the wrong position. 
 

the players can’t defend because they  can’t concentrate and because they are also lazy. 

 

 

[patto]

38 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

What’s all this “Keane was covering Holgate” nonsense then?

can we not just accept that we have two of the worst centre halves in the league and not try and offer excuses up for the one considered less completely shit than the other.

the whole “unfortunate weight on wrong foot” bollocks with the Man City goal was baffling.  If it was an out of shape 35 year old bloke playing in the zingari league you could accept it…. Not a bloody professional. 
 

its like some “I know the art of defending and will prove so be making obscure observations “ workshop. 
 

coleman shite, Keane shite, Holgate shite, kenny not good enough but he’s having a go in the wrong position. 
 

the players can’t defend because they  can’t concentrate and because they are also lazy. 

 

 

So according to you we are definitely going down with that attack on our whole defence. 

[Hafnia]

11 minutes ago, patto said:

So according to you we are definitely going down with that attack on our whole defence. 

If we stay up then it is in spite of a shite defence. That is 100% fact.

for us to stay up we are looking at other teams around us and their fixture lists in the knowledge that we can not with any confidence whatsoever look at getting points away from home.

id say that’s fair would you? 

[Bailey]

16 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Am I somehow reading that Michael Keane was made to look shit because of Holgate?

he was made to look shit cos he can’t defend unless he’s playing in a low block.  If he was made to look shit because of Holgate being shit then that is a possibility but make no bones about it - Keane was shit.

we can dissect Holgate not doing x y or z. Reality is Keane is fluffing his lines at an alarming rate and should not be playing. 

No thats you reading into something I didnt say.

I dont think anyone has said anything other than Keane playing shit. The point originally made was that Holgate was trying to take care of Keane which I disagree with. 

14 hours ago, Btay said:

Sorry but that’s just ridiculous. 1st goal he is keeping half an eye on Son and maintaining the line - Coleman drops way too deep and gets done. If there’s no communication from Holgate then that’s his mistake. Also it’s not great positioning for the cross but it’s all reactive from the moment Coleman was done - Anything back to the edge of the area Holgate should cover - Kane is running off Keane and he tracks him near post, fucks up a simple clearance. Should have been dealt with but should have been avoided from the start.

Second goal - Holgate is marking son and steps into press kulusevski after he skips by the training cone. 

3rd goal - tracks winger, could 100% do better on the second ball, no doubt. Kane runs off Keane through on goal. Smart movement - very very poor defending 

That first goal, he needs to drop behind Coleman. He cant step in. We are playing a high line, Coleman doesnt have the legs and they need to look after each other. IMO and it is only that, is that he should have been shouting at Allan to keep an eye on Son. He doesnt read the game situation, he is just playing on the my man is Son and thats all that matters. Holgate is the near post defender and he is miles out of position. He should be on that 6 yard box line. That doesn't defend anything Keane fucked up, but its not like Holgate did his job in that goal either. 

In that 2nd goal, Holgate should never have closed down Kulesevski. He acts like he thinks he is going to win the ball but all he does is take himself out of the game. Keane can still impact the game despite getting turnes inside out (and almost does), Holgate has absolutely no business getting involved. He makes it so easy for Spurs. I don't know how anyone could defend his part in that goal. Again Keane shouldnt be done that easily either but he keeps himself in the game where as Holgate just takes himself out of it completely.

The 3rd goal is just Holgate (and Keane tbf). Kane just completely mugs Keane. I do think it is a foul though but he still needs to keep playing. The difference after that inititial mistake is just that Kulecevski is sharper than Holgate. When K gets that first touch, Holgate should be on him but he is 2 yards away. He just isn't sharp and he doesnt react. 

4th goal he doesnt want to close the space to Son, which I do get. He is probably wary of over committing. I dont think Branthwaite being so deep helps either and the other attacker has so much time and space as a result. I have sympathy with the defenders in this situation because its hard to defend quick counter attacks. A lot of the time you are dammed if you do and dammed if you dont.

He doesnt exactly cover himself in glory for the 5th goal either. To start with he is 5 yards deeper than everyone else. He has to come in with Son, but only because he is playing him onside in the first place. He then holds his position but he just squares himself up, gets caught ball watching and then cant get himself back into Kane. Thats partly because he doesnt know where Kane is, but then he also doesn't react anywhere near quick enough. 

He is all over the place with or without Keane.