US Politics/Biden Presidency (Trump-free zone)

[Cornish Steve]

The day when evil almost triumphed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/house-impeachment-managers-play-video-of-capitol-riot-during-impeachment-trial-100757061701

[MikeO]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/republicans-have-betrayed-american-democracy-and-boosted-the-worlds-dictators

[Matt]

12 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/republicans-have-betrayed-american-democracy-and-boosted-the-worlds-dictators

Utterly infuriating that politicians are more interested in their job and team than actually doing their job. It’s disgusting and, even though I’m a liberal who thinks The Guardian shouldn’t be taken seriously, they’re spot on with that. It’s not hyperbole this time, republicans have said “there’s no consequences to dangerous actions if you’ve got money and power”. Bravo to the 6 that actually voted with a conscious 

[Formby]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Utterly infuriating that politicians are more interested in their job and team than actually doing their job. It’s disgusting and, even though I’m a liberal who thinks The Guardian shouldn’t be taken seriously, they’re spot on with that. It’s not hyperbole this time, republicans have said “there’s no consequences to dangerous actions if you’ve got money and power”. Bravo to the 6 that actually voted with a conscious 

A major problem here, there and everywhere. I wonder how many of the seven will be re-elected to the Republican party? Not many, I bet. A conscience is a rare commodity in politics.  

[dunlopp9987]

Throwing this in here since Ted Cruz has become Trump's lackey, even after Trump labeled him Lyin' Ted. Now he's Flyin Ted. I swear, the more details that emerge regarding this absolute shit-show of a PR nightmare, the more it sounds like an episode of Veep. Fuck this guy, and his entire party. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/18/us/politics/ted-cruz-storm-cancun.html

[markjazzbassist]

i'm not surprised one bit by this.  ted cruz and most other republicans are beholden to themselves (first and always first) and their financial backers (second) and that's it.  they feign interest in their constituents but their actions are always opposite to this.  

[dunlopp9987]

https://djtrumplibrary.com/

This is amazing. And so thorough! They even have a menu for the restaurant attached to the library!

[markjazzbassist]

alt right auditorium, lol

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56903805

[dunlopp9987]

On 28/04/2021 at 11:18, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56903805

I want to comment on this but it feels as if it's in the wrong thread...can't we be done with Drumpf once and for all?

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

I want to comment on this but it feels as if it's in the wrong thread...can't we be done with Drumpf once and for all?

I've changed the thread title.

[dunlopp9987]

7 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I've changed the thread title.

But then what happens with the Biden in charge thread?? 

MIKE I'M LOST AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

But then what happens with the Biden in charge thread?? 

MIKE I'M LOST AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO

I forgot there was a Biden in Charge thread, I'll merge the two then we can all be zen again. Sort of.

[Ghoat]

Putin is about to eat another American president, just like the last 4 or so

[Sibdane]

I keep reading things about Putin being the richest man in the world at an estimated $200 billion. Would not surprise me in the least. 

[MikeO]

This is a bit bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58020494

But on the same subject; the west went into Afghanistan to remove the Taliban from power, and now the Taliban are resurgent we're all pulling out? What exactly was the point of the last twenty years?

[markjazzbassist]

14 hours ago, MikeO said:

This is a bit bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58020494

But on the same subject; the west went into Afghanistan to remove the Taliban from power, and now the Taliban are resurgent we're all pulling out? What exactly was the point of the last twenty years?

Yeah I’ve been reading articles all week about all the interpreters we left behind.  What we did like was waste trillions of tax payer dollars to do nothing.  We could have ended poverty and improved education, no we give overinflated contracts to defense firms and go to war.  America.

[Palfy]

13 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Yeah I’ve been reading articles all week about all the interpreters we left behind.  What we did like was waste trillions of tax payer dollars to do nothing.  We could have ended poverty and improved education, no we give overinflated contracts to defense firms and go to war.  America.

Very difficult one this we were never going to completely eradicate the Taliban, and were always going to look to withdraw at some time. I just feel to walk away after 20 years with no hope of peace has been a costly error, we should have been looking at brokering a deal the last 10 years or so were the Afghan government and the Taliban agreed on a power share of some form, and until that deal was agreed we stayed on in full, otherwise we have achieved nothing but misery for them and ourselves. 

[Cornish Steve]

No one will ever win in Afghanistan. At the end of WW-I, my grandfather was shipped from the trenches of France to fight in the Afghan wars. I remember when everyone worried about Russian troops invading, but they were overcome by the Taliban. Sadly for its people, it's a no-win situation for the large powers. While the US should do the right thing and evacuate those who helped them, I see no point is pouring even more billions into nation-building. The people who are going to lose out the most, though, will be the country's women and girls.

[Bailey]

It is a tough one this as I don't think there would ever be a good time to withdraw. You could be there for 100 years and there would be no guarantee of a stable government. It will just descend in to chaos again, and no doubt result in even more resentment for the West for leaving high and dry.

[Sibdane]

It's just an all-around fucked situation. They didn't want us there in the first place, so I'm not sure ($$$) why we were expecting some sort of revolution or paradigm shift. 

[Matt]

Money funding violence will never change beliefs and hatred. Money funding education will. 

[Palfy]

15 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

No one will ever win in Afghanistan. At the end of WW-I, my grandfather was shipped from the trenches of France to fight in the Afghan wars. I remember when everyone worried about Russian troops invading, but they were overcome by the Taliban. Sadly for its people, it's a no-win situation for the large powers. While the US should do the right thing and evacuate those who helped them, I see no point is pouring even more billions into nation-building. The people who are going to lose out the most, though, will be the country's women and girls.

I think a lot of people could have told them they should have left well alone, but this was an a American war to defend the shores of America, who had decided to invade because they were a breeding ground for terrorist which posed a real threat to the USA. Unlike Kuwait and Iraqi which was purely for the Oil reserves which made the Americans a huge profit after the costs of their expenditure to run the Gulf campaign. 
But going back to Afghanistan for the Americans to pull out the way they are whilst the Taliban are fighting at the gates of the town and cities that have already cost so many lives to Allied forces and residents is abhorrent in my opinion, they have created a shit fest of a unimaginable scale to leave the woman and children of Afghanistan to live with, thousands will be slaughtered because of their very small involvement with Americans, 25% of MP in government are women they will be killed for sure and possibly their families, this is another resounding success for America when it comes to world order. 
Good morning Vietnam. 

[Cornish Steve]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

I think a lot of people could have told them they should have left well alone, but this was an a American war to defend the shores of America, who had decided to invade because they were a breeding ground for terrorist which posed a real threat to the USA. Unlike Kuwait and Iraqi which was purely for the Oil reserves which made the Americans a huge profit after the costs of their expenditure to run the Gulf campaign. 
But going back to Afghanistan for the Americans to pull out the way they are whilst the Taliban are fighting at the gates of the town and cities that have already cost so many lives to Allied forces and residents is abhorrent in my opinion, they have created a shit fest of a unimaginable scale to leave the woman and children of Afghanistan to live with, thousands will be slaughtered because of their very small involvement with Americans, 25% of MP in government are women they will be killed for sure and possibly their families, this is another resounding success for America when it comes to world order. 
Good morning Vietnam. 

Defend America's shores? If that were the case, the target would have been Saudi Arabia. isn't that from where the more prominent terrorists emanate and/or or funded?

I agree with you regarding the plight of the Afghan population, but why aren't other nations or the UN stepping in?

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Defend America's shores? If that were the case, the target would have been Saudi Arabia. isn't that from where the more prominent terrorists emanate and/or or funded?

I agree with you regarding the plight of the Afghan population, but why aren't other nations or the UN stepping in?

To reduce the chances of being a target. 

[Palfy]

17 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Defend America's shores? If that were the case, the target would have been Saudi Arabia. isn't that from where the more prominent terrorists emanate and/or or funded?

The American government at the time believed rightly or wrongly that Afghanistan was being used as a major training ground for terrorist organisations in particular Al Queeda, since 9/11 the Americans engaged on their own war on terror helped in the main by the British, and the backing of the UN but not on all policies, what the UN didn’t sanction the Americans still carried out such was the feeling inAmerica after 9/11.  
Now they and their Allies must be seen to be doing the right thing when it comes to their withdrawal, I’m pretty shocked at Biden for not intervening more on what will be a bloody aftermath for some Afghanistan’s and their families, I just expected more from Biden.  

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Palfy said:

The American government at the time believed rightly or wrongly that Afghanistan was being used as a major training ground for terrorist organisations in particular Al Queeda, since 9/11 the Americans engaged on their own war on terror helped in the main by the British, and the backing of the UN but not on all policies, what the UN didn’t sanction the Americans still carried out such was the feeling inAmerica after 9/11.  
Now they and their Allies must be seen to be doing the right thing when it comes to their withdrawal, I’m pretty shocked at Biden for not intervening more on what will be a bloody aftermath for some Afghanistan’s and their families, I just expected more from Biden.  

It's easy to expect more of others, though. Why isn't Britain intervening? or France? or Germany? or the EU? or the League of Arab States? or the UN? or anybody? Is the US expected to continue ad infinitum pouring money and lives into nation-building? The outcome is certain to be nasty, but who's willing to step up and spend what the US has been spending for many years?

[Matt]

5 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

It's easy to expect more of others, though. Why isn't Britain intervening? or France? or Germany? or the EU? or the League of Arab States? or the UN? or anybody? Is the US expected to continue ad infinitum pouring money and lives into nation-building? The outcome is certain to be nasty, but who's willing to step up and spend what the US has been spending for many years?

UK did and does, pretty sure that's true of Nato in general. I've not checked for a while though. None of the European countries (combined even!) have the economy to sustain it. Also don't have an economy largely driven by arms but that's another discussion entirely. 

I do think the Arab States should do more though. US does carry more than its fair share but it also puts itself there. 

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

It's easy to expect more of others, though. Why isn't Britain intervening? or France? or Germany? or the EU? or the League of Arab States? or the UN? or anybody? Is the US expected to continue ad infinitum pouring money and lives into nation-building? The outcome is certain to be nasty, but who's willing to step up and spend what the US has been spending for many years?

If you read my post properly you will see that I mentioned that the Brits had a part to play in this as one of the American allies who once again followed America in it’s policy against terrorism, but without doubt the Americans should be investing what ever it takes to secure Afghanistan families left to be slaughtered for aiding the Americans and it’s allies in this American policy to invade their country. So why shouldn’t they be responsible for the the most cost when it was there call to invade and they have a big enough budget to cover their own problems they created, unless of course you don’t see it as a problem that thousands will be slaughtered for helping the Americans in the Americans war on terrorism, they didn’t right it down in history as the American Afghanistan war because it was the Brits French German Canadian or anyone else’s idea to invade Afghanistan, it was the Americans in the storm of 9/11 to smash Al Qaeda and kill Bin Laden because they violated the American mainland, not a problem with that but when you’re done do the decent thing and clean your shit up don’t hang people out to die because you have no further use of them, learn from what happened to civilians in Vietnam that where left to be slaughtered as calibrators in their thousands, they shouldn’t be letting history potential repeat it’s self or should they Steve?

[Palfy]

Who would have thought that Biden would turnout to be just as big a fool than Trump, for political bullshit he chose 9/11 as the date to completely withdraw from Afghanistan like it was some sort of symbolic game and would make him look good in the annuals of history, Truly fucked up by doing that with no plan in place, now  the Americans are re-enacting Saigon 1975 running for their lives and leaving  thousands who helped them to be slaughtered, Biden needs to be put in a care home to live out his last few years, at least Trump had the foresight    to say they would negotiate a deal with the Taliban before they left.