Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Bailey]

Its just his reaction to situations that winds me up. In 2 goals he could have done something about it but didnt and I just question why a player of his ability, a proven PL player, just doesn't react. He did plenty of good things in the game itself, probably more tackles than anyone else, but when you are in the shit and you can do something so simple just to help others out, he doesn't do it.

I have covered the first goal in the match thread, but look at the last goal. There is a mix up with Lookman and Kenny, Lookman doesnt know who to mark and goes towards the wrong man, but Gana is there. Schneiderlin is in position, doing exactly what he is paid to but Gana is the wrong side of the ball, he can see the situation developing and instead of thinking "I'll just tuck in here, plug the gap and get in a better position to react" he dawdles around and then whilst Vlasic is racing across, he isnt doing the same. He then throws a right hissy at what looks like others not being in position.

Now he isnt the only one and he isnt the sole cause of our problems but when you are in the shit, you need people to take responsibility and think ahead and not be so reactive. He is involved in a lot of goals we concede when he might not be the sole cause, or even the main cause, but its a case of he should have done more to make it so easy to score.

[pete0]

It's every week. No team in the league gets waltzed past in the middle of the park like we do. 

If we can't shift him in January then just tare up his contract. Only one way the club is going with him.

[markjazzbassist]

9 minutes ago, pete0 said:

It's every week. No team in the league gets waltzed past in the middle of the park like we do. 

If we can't shift him in January then just tare up his contract. Only one way the club is going with him.

His job is to win tackles, intercept the ball, and when asked man mark their star players.  You expect him to be something he’s not.  He played fine today compared to the rest of the squad.

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

His job is to win tackles, intercept the ball, and when asked man mark their star players.  You expect him to be something he’s not.  He played fine today compared to the rest of the squad.

Mark with out trying to be rude what you have just said is laughable, he did his usual fuck all again he can't even run and he's meant to be the engine in the midfield field, put it this way if he was a car that you relied on to get you to work and home again you would scrap it because it would let you down that much you'd lose you job.

[markjazzbassist]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Mark with out trying to be rude what you have just said is laughable, he did his usual fuck all again he can't even run and he's meant to be the engine in the midfield field, put it this way if he was a car that you relied on to get you to work and home again you would scrap it because it would let you down that much you'd lose you job.

Numerous times other players didn’t close their man and he ran over and dispossessed the player of the ball and passed it off to be moved forward.  Morgan was nowhere to be found and Gana bailed him out time and time again.

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Numerous times other players didn’t close their man and he ran over and dispossessed the player of the ball and passed it off to be moved forward.  Morgan was nowhere to be found and Gana bailed him out time and time again.

He's sucked to the ball meaning their player now has a free pass on.

Sometimes it's better not to put a foot in just for the sake of it. He won a header and set the up for attack on the first half. Stay calm let the ball come down and regroup. He's not a team player. He's a major hindrance.

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Numerous times other players didn’t close their man and he ran over and dispossessed the player of the ball and passed it off to be moved forward.  Morgan was nowhere to be found and Gana bailed him out time and time again.

Oh no he never, you know what you're reply should be

[pete0]

19 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

His job is to win tackles, intercept the ball, and when asked man mark their star players.  You expect him to be something he’s not.  He played fine today compared to the rest of the squad.

He makes takles when he shouldn't. Watch any one else, they wait for the opposition to make a mistake then nick the ball. Gana goes flying in, if he loses they then have a clear attack. If he wins its 50/50 whether we get possession. 

His interceptions are pure luck from running in circles, better players do it with their positioning. His positioning is the worst I've ever been unlucky enough to witness. He is never goal side, and that's school boy stuff. 

Schneiderlin is the sitter so Gana should be turning the ball around from defence to attack. Linking up play. Something he's completely incapable of. 

[Newty82]

If Palfy and/or PeteO can name a player who is doing their job correctly week in, week out, then fair enough.

Otherwise this constant slagging of one individual has gone beyond credibility.

I get that people have their preferences. Players they like and don't like, and I get that both you guys are stubborn when it comes to your views but there is so little balance in what you's say about this guy.

[Palfy]

13 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

If Palfy and/or PeteO can name a player who is doing their job correctly week in, week out, then fair enough.

Otherwise this constant slagging of one individual has gone beyond credibility.

I get that people have their preferences. Players they like and don't like, and I get that both you guys are stubborn when it comes to your views but there is so little balance in what you's say about this guy.

The only player for me who is playing to and beyond is Niasse and the worst of the rest is Gana, now don't take it as gospel that is just my opinion and shouldn't be used in conjunction with any other options.

[Lowensda]

Newts, our old scape goats moved on, so people need someone to hound.

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Lowensda said:

Newts, our old scape goats moved on, so people need someone to hound.

Who was that then

[Newty82]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

The only player for me who is playing to and beyond is Niasse and the worst of the rest is Gana, now don't take it as gospel that is just my opinion and shouldn't be used in conjunction with any other options.

That's the thing though Palfy, you 2 routinely put Gana as the worst of the pack. Yet statistically, he's one of our better players in many areas. I know I know...statistics. But they have to be worth something when a player is in the top 3 for many areas? Surely they tell some sort of story?

I don't particularly like his role, in that I prefer him not to venture so far forward, where I think he becomes more wasteful and less effective. But I guess we have little choice at the moment.

He's a valuable player in my opinion. But like many others, he's not particularly shinning.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

If Palfy and/or PeteO can name a player who is doing their job correctly week in, week out, then fair enough.

Otherwise this constant slagging of one individual has gone beyond credibility.

I get that people have their preferences. Players they like and don't like, and I get that both you guys are stubborn when it comes to your views but there is so little balance in what you's say about this guy.

Don't see the relevance. Gana is dragging the whole team down. Keane is rubbish and the other 2 CBs legs have gone as have Baines. Schneiderlin doesn't have the heart and Sigurdssen is nowhere near the player we need. Klaassen and Sandro need a season before being judged. Cuco can cross by positionally is terrible, not helped by the cb next to him not pulling his weight (usually Keane). DCL can't finish. Rooney drifts too much and should be told to stay in the box. I even said give Robles a game. Pretty sure I've said all this numerous times so I'm definitely not picking on one player. Only today or yesterday I made a list of players we should boot out the door. 

58 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

That's the thing though Palfy, you 2 routinely put Gana as the worst of the pack. Yet statistically, he's one of our better players in many areas. I know I know...statistics. But they have to be worth something when a player is in the top 3 for many areas? Surely they tell some sort of story?

I don't particularly like his role, in that I prefer him not to venture so far forward, where I think he becomes more wasteful and less effective. But I guess we have little choice at the moment.

He's a valuable player in my opinion. But like many others, he's not particularly shinning.

Statistically Gana is better than Kante and I guess that's why Walsh preferred Gana. Moneyball doesn't work in football, too many factors. He's never goal side, anyone have a stat for that? You watch him closely and he's fucking awful. As for scapegoats, that implies their innocent, Gana is central in too the majority of our playing problems. Stifles attack and gifts space or silly tables for most of their goals. 

[Palfy]

Newty mate I do respect your opinion and to be fair I don't look at stats but your right they do add weight to your argument, for me I say it as I see it and I could be accused of being blinkered when it comes to Gana, but what annoys most about him is his lack of energy he is so lack lustre he can't Sprint and routinely let's people go past him with out any effort, and most of those he lets go normally play a part in a goal against us, when you watch Davies or Besic and Barry and McCarthy they would work there nuts off going forward and chasing back not him hard work's not in his vocabulary, he's a passenger and when you're up against it like we are you can't carry passengers, our only hope of getting out this Shit is with grit and determination to give everything you've got and leave nothing out there, I know Davies Besic and McCarthy when fit will give you that, him and Schneiderlin won't.

[Newty82]

33 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Don't see the relevance. Gana is dragging the whole team down. Keane is rubbish and the other 2 CBs legs have gone as have Baines. Schneiderlin doesn't have the heart and Sigurdssen is nowhere near the player we need. Klaassen and Sandro need a season before being judged. Cuco can cross by positionally is terrible, not helped by the cb next to him not pulling his weight (usually Keane). DCL can't finish. Rooney drifts too much and should be told to stay in the box. I even said give Robles a game. Pretty sure I've said all this numerous times so I'm definitely not picking on one player. Only today or yesterday I made a list of players we should boot out the door. 

Statistically Gana is better than Kante and I guess that's why Walsh preferred Gana. Moneyball doesn't work in football, too many factors. He's never goal side, anyone have a stat for that? You watch him closely and he's fucking awful. As for scapegoats, that implies their innocent, Gana is central in too the majority of our playing problems. Stifles attack and gifts space or silly tables for most of their goals. 

Definitely not picking on one player!!! It's funny that you mention the word scapegoat, when that's not been mentioned...your subconcious mind talking?!!!

(Statisticaly, Kante was better than Gana the season before their transfers to their present clubs but Gana was 2nd only to him)

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Definitely not picking on one player!!! It's funny that you mention the word scapegoat, when that's not been mentioned...your subconcious mind talking?!!!

(Statisticaly, Kante was better than Gana the season before their transfers to their present clubs but Gana was 2nd only to him)

I've picked apart most players this season. He's the worst one, closely followed by Keane. Not hard to understand that is it? 

Scapegoats, see Lowensda's post. 

[Newty82]

6 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I've picked apart most players this season. He's the worst one, closely followed by Keane. Not hard to understand that is it? 

Scapegoats, see Lowensda's post. 

Ah Yeah, I see that post. I get you.

And yes, it is hard to understand when they aren't the worst players!!! That's my point. You may pick at every player, but you have the wrong players as the worst!!!

I know how stubborn and singleminded you are from previous convo's, so I'll not dive in anymore to save any frustration on both parts. Mainly mine to be honest!!!

[Newty82]

28 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Newty mate I do respect your opinion and to be fair I don't look at stats but your right they do add weight to your argument, for me I say it as I see it and I could be accused of being blinkered when it comes to Gana, but what annoys most about him is his lack of energy he is so lack lustre he can't Sprint and routinely let's people go past him with out any effort, and most of those he lets go normally play a part in a goal against us, when you watch Davies or Besic and Barry and McCarthy they would work there nuts off going forward and chasing back not him hard work's not in his vocabulary, he's a passenger and when you're up against it like we are you can't carry passengers, our only hope of getting out this Shit is with grit and determination to give everything you've got and leave nothing out there, I know Davies Besic and McCarthy when fit will give you that, him and Schneiderlin won't.

But see, I would never put a player who covers more ground than any other as lacking energy.

You could say Davies works his nuts off but is he effective? Of course you'll say he's more effective than Gana but then that's why I look at stats, just to see.

Gana beats Davies in just about everything....Tackles, take on's, passing, duals won, Arial duals, interceptions etc (even taking into account minutes played).

I'm not putting Davies down, I like him of course. I just can't see how Gana gets such a hard time off you guys yet Davies gets the opposite...yet they're both very similiar. So either they're both shit or both decent? Notice I said decent...not great, it's not about saying Gana is great, just that he ain't that bad.

(McCarthy and Besic are a waste of conversation, to be honest, for obvious reasons). 

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

But see, I would never put a player who covers more ground than any other as lacking energy.

You could say Davies works his nuts off but is he effective? Of course you'll say he's more effective than Gana but then that's why I look at stats, just to see.

Gana beats Davies in just about everything....Tackles, take on's, passing, duals won, Arial duals, interceptions etc (even taking into account minutes played).

I'm not putting Davies down, I like him of course. I just can't see how Gana gets such a hard time off you guys yet Davies gets the opposite...yet they're both very similiar. So either they're both shit or both decent? Notice I said decent...not great, it's not about saying Gana is great, just that he ain't that bad.

(McCarthy and Besic are a waste of conversation, to be honest, for obvious reasons). 

I've already said he jogs around constantly which would equate for more ground covered, but most of it if you watch him closely achieves nothing, if you have got today's game recorded then watch him closely, I warn you it makes for disturbing viewing.

[Newty82]

Just now, Palfy said:

I've already said he jogs around constantly which would equate for more ground covered, but most of it if you watch him closely achieves nothing, if you have got today's game recorded then watch him closely, I warn you it makes for disturbing viewing.

I watched today's game. As in, I actually watched it through...I wasnt on TT every few minutes to make a post. He was poor. As were 8 or 9 other players. Nobody achieved anything today, that's why we got battered 4-1 by a team who had been playing shite defensive football all season. All we achieved was to make them look awesome. That's not just down to Gana...which is exactly my point.

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

But see, I would never put a player who covers more ground than any other as lacking energy.

You could say Davies works his nuts off but is he effective? Of course you'll say he's more effective than Gana but then that's why I look at stats, just to see.

Gana beats Davies in just about everything....Tackles, take on's, passing, duals won, Arial duals, interceptions etc (even taking into account minutes played).

I'm not putting Davies down, I like him of course. I just can't see how Gana gets such a hard time off you guys yet Davies gets the opposite...yet they're both very similiar. So either they're both shit or both decent? Notice I said decent...not great, it's not about saying Gana is great, just that he ain't that bad.

(McCarthy and Besic are a waste of conversation, to be honest, for obvious reasons). 

I dont think they are very similar at all if I am honest.

Davies reads the game far better than Gana. I think Davies is still a bit wayward but his positioning is far better than Gana's. His offensive passing is much better, he is probably the one midfielder we have that is happy to take the ball on the turn. Davies would have got himself into positions to try and stop at least two of the goals we conceded today. It might not have made a difference but he would have seen the situation and given himself the chance to make a difference whereas Gana didnt even try.

Gana isnt the only one playing shite, there isnt one midfielder that is playing well but I dont trust him there, he is putting his teammates under more pressure than they should be and at a time when they are low on confidence and we need him to do the opposite.

[jofanon]

Keane isn't good enough

Jags and Williams are past it

Baines isn't the top player he once was 

Gana is too limited (forget the stats)

Morgan hasn't got any bottle

Lennon I love but is too limited

Miralles has ability but he's a tool

Rooney should be an impact sub

DCL isn't a great finisher

Gylfi I think the jury is out on still

jury out on Vlasic

klaasen needs time 

sandro needs time 

martina doesn't even belong in the u23's

So that's pretty poor!

Pickford, Davies, Kenny, Niasse get a pass from me and I'm looking forward to Bolaise, Coleman and potentially Barkley coming back

Need new left back, two central defenders, arteta esque central midfielder, left mid, two strikers...oh and a manager!

There's another £150m to spend please Moshiri.

 

[Hafnia]

Can we just bring up every other players thread and talk about how shit they are? Or are we just limiting it to certain ones? 

[DavisJD]

Gueye is mint on FIFA18, one man wrecking ball as a solo defensive midfielder.

[StevO]

On ‎27‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 09:14, jofanon said:

Keane isn't good enough

Jags and Williams are past it

Baines isn't the top player he once was 

Gana is too limited (forget the stats)

Morgan hasn't got any bottle

Lennon I love but is too limited

Miralles has ability but he's a tool

Rooney should be an impact sub

DCL isn't a great finisher

Gylfi I think the jury is out on still

jury out on Vlasic

klaasen needs time 

sandro needs time 

martina doesn't even belong in the u23's

So that's pretty poor!

Pickford, Davies, Kenny, Niasse get a pass from me and I'm looking forward to Bolaise, Coleman and potentially Barkley coming back

Need new left back, two central defenders, arteta esque central midfielder, left mid, two strikers...oh and a manager!

There's another £150m to spend please Moshiri.

 

I don't understand why you are happy to commit to Keane not being good enough, but Klaasen and Sandro get more time? Of the three I'd say Keane has shown the most quality and promise.

[jofanon]

On ‎28‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 13:58, StevO said:

I don't understand why you are happy to commit to Keane not being good enough, but Klaasen and Sandro get more time? Of the three I'd say Keane has shown the most quality and promise.

Keane has had significantly more game time for me to make a judgement

[EFC-Paul]

Keane will come good he's young and come into a piss poor side with managerial problems multiple formations systems and players 

Look at how piss poor Stones looked last season, now I'm not for one minute suggesting Allardyce is Pep mk2 but the man can drill a back line and if there's a manager out there who's renowned for doing so and apparently a very good man manager it's Allardyce

Give the lad a little time and he'll be the player we expect him to be 

[MikeO]

Good work for the second goal today.

[johnh]

We could do worse than go for Mooy in January.