Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

So for arguments sake let’s say we sell Gana, who then comes in for him?

Davies. I'd get rid of/drop Sigurdssen and have a more energetic player in giving Davies and Gomes more options. 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Take the money and let's see if others improve with him not there, at the moment the midfield is shit it's 3 individuals not playing as a unit we can't carry on like this. Him going might be the spark that's needed to get us playing as a team and it might not, but something has to change and starting there is as good as anywhere.

I know your opinion of him, but I don’t think selling your best midfielder is the way to strengthen your team. That’s just weakening it further.

Football management isn’t about guess work. 

We need to strengthen the team. That starts with looking at the weak links and replacing them. And contrary to yours and the possibly other two maybe three people in the Galaxy, Gana is no where near the weak link.

Funniest thing is, this run won’t continue, I would bet a substantial sum on it. And if we sell him, and we win a few..... it’s going to make you and PeteO feel justified haha I can see it now.

[Shukes]

1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Davies. I'd get rid of/drop Sigurdssen and have a more energetic player in giving Davies and Gomes more options. 

More energetic than the player nicknamed Duracell bunny? And that player is Davies? And your high on what again?

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

So for arguments sake let’s say we sell Gana, who then comes in for him?

I would drop him and Gylfi now go with Davies/ McCarthy in place of Gana then Bernard in place of Gylfi and keep Gomes.

[Bill]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Was chatting to a mate the other day, who is a Boro season ticket holder,and we were talking about Besic, apparently he has been bang average all season

It seems he has found his level in the Championship so I hope we don’t try and pin our hopes on him

I hear what your saying Dunc, but who in our team has been any more than bang average.  Could possibly say gana and like you said, Who comes in for him ? We have no leaders or nobody who can tackle in the team, Besic at least plays as though he wants to win. We need players who show a bit of spirit, he is one who can do that.

Obviously not going into the transfer Market so he might be the best option.

[pete0]

21 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I know your opinion of him, but I don’t think selling your best midfielder is the way to strengthen your team. That’s just weakening it further.

Football management isn’t about guess work. 

We need to strengthen the team. That starts with looking at the weak links and replacing them. And contrary to yours and the possibly other two maybe three people in the Galaxy, Gana is no where near the weak link.

Funniest thing is, this run won’t continue, I would bet a substantial sum on it. And if we sell him, and we win a few..... it’s going to make you and PeteO feel justified haha I can see it now.

We sold Rooney and finished fourth with Marcus Bent. Sometimes selling your best works. Sometimes a player just doesn't fit, look at Sanchez at United. Gana just doesn't fit. 

Jack Charlton says he went the world cup and questioned the manager as he knew there were better players than himself only for the manager to agree but then added he's better for the team compared to the individuals.

Like I said before Gana only had one spell out and we won 3 and drew the other. Its only a small sample but most likely results will improve without him. 

[pete0]

27 minutes ago, Shukes said:

More energetic than the player nicknamed Duracell bunny? And that player is Davies? And your high on what again?

Someone more energetic than Sigurdssen not Gana. 

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

We sold Rooney and finished fourth with Marcus Bent. Sometimes selling your best works. Sometimes a player just doesn't fit, look at Sanchez at United. Gana just doesn't fit. 

Jack Charlton says he went the world cup and questioned the manager as he knew there were better players than himself only for the manager to agree but then added he's better for the team compared to the individuals. 

Exactly it's about his attributes as a team player someone one who can compliment players around him and be complimented by them, most just think it's about stats which I have to say have been very average the last few months, aimlessly chasing the ball like man's best friend is not the science of football I grew up watching.

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Bill said:

If he goes we need to bring Besic back off loan, we don't have anybody in midfield who can tackle.

I’d rather see you in the midfield Bill!

[Aidan]

Has told the club he wants to leave

- sky sources

[Finn balor]

Always going to happen

[Bill]

59 minutes ago, StevO said:

I’d rather see you in the midfield Bill!

I could probably tackle better than half the present team, even with my walking stick.

[Shukes]

8 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Has told the club he wants to leave

- sky sources

Well then we let him go and get someone in. 

[Aidan]

5 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Always going to happen

Long way to go yet. We don't want to sell and they don't want to offer us a reasonable sum. Cant see it happening to be honest.

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Aidan said:

Long way to go yet. We don't want to sell and they don't want to offer us a reasonable sum. Cant see it happening to be honest.

Oh great that works keep a player who doesn't want to play for you, if he has genuinely said he wants to go you don't stop him.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Oh great that works keep a player who doesn't want to play for you, if he has genuinely said he wants to go you don't stop him.

You do if you can’t sign a replacement 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Davies. I'd get rid of/drop Sigurdssen and have a more energetic player in giving Davies and Gomes more options. 

So you’re dropping our only ball winner and our leading scorer for a lad who can do neither?

[Aidan]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Oh great that works keep a player who doesn't want to play for you, if he has genuinely said he wants to go you don't stop him.

Who said he didn't want to play for us apart from you just then?

The article said he stated he has asked the club to allow the move. I don't have him down as the type of player to throw his toys out of the pram if the club don't agree on his valuation or can't find a viable replacement in time.

Even so, I'd rather keep an unhappy player than not replace him at all.

[nyblue23]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

We sold Rooney and finished fourth with Marcus Bent. Sometimes selling your best works. Sometimes a player just doesn't fit, look at Sanchez at United. Gana just doesn't fit. 

Jack Charlton says he went the world cup and questioned the manager as he knew there were better players than himself only for the manager to agree but then added he's better for the team compared to the individuals.

Like I said before Gana only had one spell out and we won 3 and drew the other. Its only a small sample but most likely results will improve without him. 

Still not true.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

So you’re dropping our only ball winner and our leading scorer for a lad who can do neither?

Ball winner? He's a tackler, he doesn't win possession with every tackle he probably turns over the ball 50% of time. And the other 50% leaves a massive hole to be exploited. Davies marks the space much better than Gana, he also closes down much better than Gana he's got a much better brain reading the play and staying goalside closing the lanes rather than rushing in chasing the ball. 

No idea why you think I'd drop Sigurdssen and Gana for just Davies? 

34 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

Still not true.

It's a fact, January 2017. Beat City, Palace and Bournemouth and drew with Stoke. 11 goals scored, 4 conceded, 2 clean sheets. 

Of the 13 premier league games he's missed we've only been beaten in 5 all by teams above us: Spurs, City x2, man u and Chelsea. 

In the other 8 only Bournemouth managed to score more than one goal past us. 

Given he adds very little attacking wise, what exactly is he doing defensively to justify a place as the stats show we are better without him. 

 

[nyblue23]

22 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Ball winner? He's a tackler, he doesn't win possession with every tackle he probably turns over the ball 50% of time. And the other 50% leaves a massive hole to be exploited. Davies marks the space much better than Gana, he also closes down much better than Gana he's got a much better brain reading the play and staying goalside closing the lanes rather than rushing in chasing the ball. 

No idea why you think I'd drop Sigurdssen and Gana for just Davies? 

It's a fact, January 2017. Beat City, Palace and Bournemouth and drew with Stoke. 11 goals scored, 4 conceded, 2 clean sheets. 

Of the 13 premier league games he's missed we've only been beaten in 5 all by teams above us: Spurs, City x2, man u and Chelsea. 

In the other 8 only Bournemouth managed to score more than one goal past us. 

Given he adds very little attacking wise, what exactly is he doing defensively to justify a place as the stats show we are better without him. 

 

It’s not a fact because you’re using a very specific self-determined definition of spell and ignoring all the other games he’s missed. He missed 7 PL games his first season with us, 6 last season and 2 so far this season. The team two years ago was a very different side defensively than our current side regardless. This article is much more helpful in demonstrating the effect of his absence in our current side:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2019/1/28/18200797/everton-defense-analysis-set-piece-zonal-marking-marco-silva-kurt-zouma-michael-keane-idrissa-gueye

[pete0]

18 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

It’s not a fact because you’re using a very specific self-determined definition of spell and ignoring all the other games he’s missed. He missed 7 PL games his first season with us, 6 last season and 2 so far this season. The team two years ago was a very different side defensively than our current side regardless. This article is much more helpful in demonstrating the effect of his absence in our current side:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2019/1/28/18200797/everton-defense-analysis-set-piece-zonal-marking-marco-silva-kurt-zouma-michael-keane-idrissa-gueye

Spell, meaning he missed a few games consecutively. No idea how else that could be construed. 

No idea what your point is. He's missed 13 games, of those games we've only been beaten by top 6 clubs (although we did manage one win against them too). 

Gana is a defensive player (apparently) yet in the 7 games he missed against the teams outside the top 6 we never lost one and only conceded more than one goal in 1 out of 7 games. 

No idea how that article helps. He's the player most likely giving away the set piece opportunity. Also uses city and spurs discounts to justify him. The goals didn't come from central midfield in those games. If anything we'd have conceded more with him in those two matches. 

[nyblue23]

26 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Spell, meaning he missed a few games consecutively. No idea how else that could be construed. 

No idea what your point is. He's missed 13 games, of those games we've only been beaten by top 6 clubs (although we did manage one win against them too). 

Gana is a defensive player (apparently) yet in the 7 games he missed against the teams outside the top 6 we never lost one and only conceded more than one goal in 1 out of 7 games. 

No idea how that article helps. He's the player most likely giving away the set piece opportunity. Also uses city and spurs discounts to justify him. The goals didn't come from central midfield in those games. If anything we'd have conceded more with him in those two matches. 

Do math. It’s not 13 games.

And you ignored the part where it’s almost an entirely different back line than the one from a full two years ago, three managers removed from those defensive tactics.

“He’s the player most likely giving away the set piece opportunity.” Once you get past the grammar, that’s still a horseshit statement. He’s the only one who ever wins possession back for our side, and while he’s given away the ocassional bad foul, in the game against Millwall that literally just happened it was Digne who gave away set pieces for two goals.

Finally, you don’t get to make statements like “If anything we'd have conceded more with him in those two matches“ when making arguments. That’s called conjecture and it’s bullshit.

[pete0]

26 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

Do math. It’s not 13 games.

And you ignored the part where it’s almost an entirely different back line than the one from a full two years ago, three managers removed from those defensive tactics.

“He’s the player most likely giving away the set piece opportunity.” Once you get past the grammar, that’s still a horseshit statement. He’s the only one who ever wins possession back for our side, and while he’s given away the ocassional bad foul, in the game against Millwall that literally just happened it was Digne who gave away set pieces for two goals.

Finally, you don’t get to make statements like “If anything we'd have conceded more with him in those two matches“ when making arguments. That’s called conjecture and it’s bullshit.

I won't argue about my grammar because I know mine is shit, but fuck me if you're gonna be the one to comment on mine don't start with a "do math". Any how history of the Internet shows when someone comments on your grammar it's because they've lost an argument. 

No idea what your point is. Gana is the one constant outfield player. We lose with him and without him against the top 6. We never lose without him against the the rest. 

Horseshit statement? He gives away considerably more free kicks than the rest of the team, silly ones in dangerous areas being his speciality because he's wrong side of his man/rushes in and doesn't stay goalside. How exactly is that horse shit? 

Stats show he doesn't win possession. Winning a tackle is not the same as winning possession.

Amazingly I do get to make arguments as such by using logic. Logic being the goals we conceded were not through the middle, they weren't the fault of the player who stood in for Gana. Yet most games Gana gives away a clear opportunity through the middle so most likely he would've in those games. So I've used reasoning compared to your statement that it's bullshit conjecture, which ironically your statement is exactly that. 

Any how just did me some math. It's 13 games according to transfermarkt, my apologies if that's incorrect, however still no need for your tone and you've not exactly put anything to show it's more or justify your opinion. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/idrissa-gueye/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/126665/plus/0?saison=&verein=29&liga=&wettbewerb=GB1&pos=&trainer_id=

[Sev]

10 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

My major concern with that theory is it’s only you and PeteO who see it that way!

Things are not just black and white. We're some that thinks Gana is often holding up the play where it shouldn't be held up. And we're some that thinks Gana often make other players perform worse.

Ganas energy is very good but some of us think it's wasted energy and that Gana tactically doesn't fit to the team.

Simply put; we're some that want him out of here and we think that 20-30 mill £ is a good price.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

19 minutes ago, Sev said:

Things are not just black and white. We're some that thinks Gana is often holding up the play where it shouldn't be held up. And we're some that thinks Gana often make other players perform worse.

Ganas energy is very good but some of us think it's wasted energy and that Gana tactically doesn't fit to the team.

Simply put; we're some that want him out of here and we think that 20-30 mill £ is a good price.

£30m for a player his age is a good price but your missing the point, he is the only midfielder at the club capable of putting a tackle in, well apart from McCarthy but he would get injured in the process 

So if we sell we need a replacement in this window

 

[Paddock]

He needs to be told that he only goes if we sign a replacement- why has he waited this late to hand it in? Only Everton could be tryingbto offload half of our squad and we sell one of the players we want to keep. No replacement no deal, it’s that simple. He should have handed it in when they first bid instead of hangingg on for a payout.

[Hafnia]

We could sell him in the summer for the same price so it makes no sense to sell now.

If I was going to sell players I would be target selling the likes of Schneiderlein who should not be around the squad.   Plus any other players who don't give a shit in order to send a message out.

[Romey 1878]

If he's replaced adequately then sell. That is a great deal for us now, even if we don't get them to up the money tbh. I'd like to get them closer to £30m but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we couldn't.

But if we haven't got a contingency plan in place for this scenario, i.e. a replacement deal all ready to be completed before the close of the window, then we simply cannot sanction the deal, no matter how much Gana wants it. Because the prospect of Davies or Schneiderlin being at the heart of our midfield until the summer is, quite frankly, terrifying. Schneiderlin has forgotten how to play football, and Davies being there would effectively leave us playing with 10 men every week because he does absolutely nothing required for the role. He's good on a skateboard though.