Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Bill]

Yeah, i think its quite obvious that they work in tandem  1 up and 1  back, they seem to have a good understanding, and it works. 

[c1982]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Wolves paid 20 million 2 years ago what the fuck was Walsh and Koeman doing paying Villa 7 for Gana and 25 for Schniederlin, and even I was advocating him then, sell the them two and test that waters with a 50-60 million bid, because in my eyes what we've seen so far with our midfield is we ain't going no where fast.

Do you understand the Wolves link with Mendes? Neves wasn’t available to us and many other teams. Mendes ‘placed’ him at Wolves hence the reason why he, and others, were playing Championship football rather than Champions League. He’s working on a similar model with Forest but it’s early days.

[Sibdane]

8 hours ago, pete0 said:

If you'd swap him in a heart beat doesn't that mean you agree he's not good enough. 

I'd swap Walcott for Messi in a heartbeat, therefore Walcott is not good enough. 

[Palfy]

Who's watching Wolves if your not tune in and your see  Neves a 21 year-old show you how the game should be played in Gana's position and if you are watching I hope you can see what I've been banging on about for 2 years, he tackles and he can play football Gana just tackles the difference is embarrassing.

[Shukes]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Who's watching Wolves if your not tune in and your see  Neves a 21 year-old show you how the game should be played in Gana's position and if you are watching I hope you can see what I've been banging on about for 2 years, he tackles and he can play football Gana just tackles the difference is embarrassing.

Neves isn’t a Gana type at all palfy. He’s a technical player. Thought you had watched him play? 

Gan has also scored a few goals, has a high rate of interceptions, which shows he is intelligent in a positional sense. Also had one of the highest touches per game in our team, and to top it off also has one of the highest pass percentages in the team.... but can only tackle.... 

can you say Doh! At all?

[Shukes]

Thought you were having a break from the thread in any case haha! Your just as addicted to criticising him as I am to sticking up for him.

Maybe we should go to GA together!

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Neves isn’t a Gana type at all palfy. He’s a technical player. Thought you had watched him play? 

Gan has also scored a few goals, has a high rate of interceptions, which shows he is intelligent in a positional sense. Also had one of the highest touches per game in our team, and to top it off also has one of the highest pass percentages in the team.... but can only tackle.... 

can you say Doh! At all?

Your obviously not watching or your playing blind man's bluff. Make the booking and I'll be there

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

Man City are already all over him and Wolves want £100m because they know they have a gem on their hands. He’s already out of our league for me. 

Watching the Wolves game stick another 20 million on that price.

[nogs]

While we're playing fantasy football making pointless comparisons between another team's players and ours, Moutinho is a better player than Gomes. And both Wolves strikers are better than ours. 

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, nogs said:

While we're playing fantasy football making pointless comparisons between another team's players and ours, Moutinho is a better player than Gomes. And both Wolves strikers are better than ours. 

Really

[nogs]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Really

Yes, really

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, nogs said:

While we're playing fantasy football making pointless comparisons between another team's players and ours, Moutinho is a better player than Gomes. And both Wolves strikers are better than ours. 

Moutinho isn'tt a better player than Gomes imo, but what he has got is a far better partner in Neves than Gomes has in Gana.

[Bailey]

36 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Who's watching Wolves if your not tune in and your see  Neves a 21 year-old show you how the game should be played in Gana's position and if you are watching I hope you can see what I've been banging on about for 2 years, he tackles and he can play football Gana just tackles the difference is embarrassing.

I have watched him closely in this game and I think they are complete opposites so it depends what you like.

Neves' positioning is exemplary, he reads the game very well both defensively and offensively. He has a great range of passing, he sees and play balls you would expect from De Bruyne not a holding midfielder, and whilst not evident in this game, he also has a shot on him. Essentially his defensive skill is covering the areas and angles of the pitch to stop opposing players making passes, dribbles or shots in dangerous areas.

Even with all that said, I don't think he is worth anywhere near the money being talked about and I am not sure he would be an ideal replacement for Fernandinho at City. I say this because he isn'tt particularly mobile, he isn'tt strong, quick or agile and he isn'tt very good in 1 v 1 situations. When I think about City, I see them needing someone who is exceptional in 1 v 1 situations and who can cover ground quickly to stop counter attacks. I think the Wolves system and style of football suits him perfectly.

 

 

[Palfy]

25 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I have watched him closely in this game and I think they are complete opposites so it depends what you like.

Neves' positioning is exemplary, he reads the game very well both defensively and offensively. He has a great range of passing, he sees and play balls you would expect from De Bruyne not a holding midfielder, and whilst not evident in this game, he also has a shot on him. Essentially his defensive skill is covering the areas and angles of the pitch to stop opposing players making passes, dribbles or shots in dangerous areas.

Even with all that said, I don't think he is worth anywhere near the money being talked about and I am not sure he would be an ideal replacement for Fernandinho at City. I say this because he isn'tttt particularly mobile, he isn'tttt strong, quick or agile and he isn'tttt very good in 1 v 1 situations. When I think about City, I see them needing someone who is exceptional in 1 v 1 situations and who can cover ground quickly to stop counter attacks. I think the Wolves system and style of football suits him perfectly.

 

 

You forgot to mention he has vision he organises he's strong Bailey he's built like a bull if you think he doesn't tackle look at today's stats, I agree the 100 million Steve mentioned does seem a tad high the valuation I saw was 60 million get rid of Gana and Schniederlin and put 20 million on top we could afford him and his wages, we've got to improve on Gana's ability as a footballer or we don't improve as team you can't get to the top with players with only one skill set no matter how good it is.

 

[Bailey]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You forgot to mention he has vision he organises he's strong Bailey he's built like a bull if you think he doesn't tackle look at today's stats, I agree the 100 million Steve mentioned does seem a tad high the valuation I saw was 60 million get rid of Gana and Schniederlin and put 20 million on top we could afford him and his wages, we've got to improve on Gana's ability as a footballer or we don't improve as team you can't get to the top with players with only one skill set no matter how good it is.

Reading the game offensively is vision is it not? I don't see any evidence of him being stronger than your average league DM. Its not an attribute that stands out IMO.

I also didn't say he doesn't tackle. There were at least two occasions where the opposition player was able to get past him in a 1 v 1 situation, one of which they put a dangerous ball into the box. I think he excels in the system he is in meaning he doesn't get into those type of situations very often and because his positioning is excellent and he reads the game well and times his challenges.

I agree with the last bit as you know.

His performance today was almost a perfect example of a defensive playmaker and if that is what your team needs then he is the perfect player.

[StevO]

20 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You forgot to mention he has vision he organises he's strong Bailey he's built like a bull if you think he doesn't tackle look at today's stats, I agree the 100 million Steve mentioned does seem a tad high the valuation I saw was 60 million get rid of Gana and Schniederlin and put 20 million on top we could afford him and his wages, we've got to improve on Gana's ability as a footballer or we don't improve as team you can't get to the top with players with only one skill set no matter how good it is.

 

But you can? Teams have played with a defensive midfielder for the last decade winning trophies. I’d love two midfielders who can do everything, but it won’t happen. 

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

But you can? Teams have played with a defensive midfielder for the last decade winning trophies. I’d love two midfielders who can do everything, but it won’t happen. 

I agree totally Steve Neves is a defensive midfielder but that doesn't mean you can't have other abilities to your game like reading the game closing the space down knowing when to stay and not push knowing how to push a player to a negative position without making a challenge you might lose and been able to go from defence to attack with accurate passing.

That's what I want from Gana but I'm never going to get it and I find that fucking depressing, because as long as he's here we are not progressing.

[StevO]

19 hours ago, Palfy said:

I agree totally Steve Neves is a defensive midfielder but that doesn't mean you can't have other abilities to your game like reading the game closing the space down knowing when to stay and not push knowing how to push a player to a negative position without making a challenge you might lose and been able to go from defence to attack with accurate passing.

That's what I want from Gana but I'm never going to get it and I find that fucking depressing, because as long as he's here we are not progressing.

Neves isn’t a defensive midfielder though, that’s not how I see him at all. He just plays from deep, but his job is to create. I’ve got to say, Leicester cut Wolves apart through the middle time after time yesterday. 

The issue you have, I think, needs to be more down to the managers tactics rather than the players ability. 

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

Neves isn’t a defensive midfielder though, that’s not how I see him at all. He just plays from deep, but his job is to create. I’ve got to say, Leicester cut Wolves apart through the middle time after time yesterday. 

The issue you have, I think, needs to be more down to the managers tactics rather than the players ability. 

I agree that he isnt defensive midfielder however I didnt see Leicester rip Wolves through the middle. I didnt see the first 20 minutes or the first 10 mins of the second. The commentators said Leicester were causing lots of problems in the first 20 and that Gray scored early in the second so I might have just missed it!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

On 19/01/2019 at 04:25, pete0 said:

If you'd swap him in a heart beat doesn't that mean you agree he's not good enough. 

It means he’s not as good as Doucouré 

[pete0]

Any central midfielder is gonna struggle playing with Gana who doesn't want the ball and Sigurdssen who never gets the ball. 

Most people would agree you can't use moneyball stats in football. Yet most people then use those very same stats to argue players are good enough. Football is a team sport and the teeth of the cogs don't fit the team we have. Sigurdssen you build a team round like Swansea did. Gana at best can man mark someone. Beyond that he's simply not got the brain or skill set. 

[Matt]

51 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Any central midfielder is gonna struggle playing with Gana who doesn't want the ball and Sigurdssen who never gets the ball. 

Most people would agree you can't use moneyball stats in football. Yet most people then use those very same stats to argue players are good enough. Football is a team sport and the teeth of the cogs don't fit the team we have. Sigurdssen you build a team round like Swansea did. Gana at best can man mark someone. Beyond that he's simply not got the brain or skill set. 

Hey Pete, did you see my question in the Gana thread?

[pete0]

8 minutes ago, Matt said:

Hey Pete, did you see my question in the Gana thread?

Apologies thought I'd already commented on it. It's only one pass and there was no other options, any other player makes that pass no one would highlight it. That said, if he picked passes like that when there is other options I'd have less complaint about his passing. 

Similarly he made a bursting run forward a few games back, was just how the play fell, there was no other option for him to take. 

[Shukes]

But if he isn’t capable of it, he can’t do it.... even if it is the only option.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Apologies thought I'd already commented on it. It's only one pass and there was no other options, any other player makes that pass no one would highlight it. That said, if he picked passes like that when there is other options I'd have less complaint about his passing. 

Similarly he made a bursting run forward a few games back, was just how the play fell, there was no other option for him to take. 

Was just curious. Without meaning to fish (too much :P),  not only did his positioning allow him to intercept the ball, and his passing allow him to see where to lay it off and then move to receive it again, but he then split their defence with a forward pass. All of which he's apparently incapable of doing. It wasn't about his lack of options; a lack of options doesn't magically disappear all the flaws you see in him. It's something that he does very often. 

That pass is also an example of this "assisting the assist" notion that has been discussed for years, and I think Gana is a good candidate to be included. 

Anyway,  wrong thread to discuss it, I should've followed up in the Gana thread  

[nyblue23]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

Apologies thought I'd already commented on it. It's only one pass and there was no other options, any other player makes that pass no one would highlight it. That said, if he picked passes like that when there is other options I'd have less complaint about his passing. 

Similarly he made a bursting run forward a few games back, was just how the play fell, there was no other option for him to take. 

Hah this has to be a new bottom. When he does something well, it’s because it’s the only thing he could have done, and the fact that he did it well means absolutely nothing. I wish you could step back and analyze the load of shit that you’ve spouted about Gana in these past months because it is truly a pile to behold.

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

Hah this has to be a new bottom. When he does something well, it’s because it’s the only thing he could have done, and the fact that he did it well means absolutely nothing. I wish you could step back and analyze the load of shit that you’ve spouted about Gana in these past months because it is truly a pile to behold.

Broken clock is right twice a day, doesn't mean you applaud it the breif moments it is. Would you comment any other player made that pass, nope.

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, nyblue23 said:

Hah this has to be a new bottom. When he does something well, it’s because it’s the only thing he could have done, and the fact that he did it well means absolutely nothing. I wish you could step back and analyze the load of shit that you’ve spouted about Gana in these past months because it is truly a pile to behold.

As a wise man once said, "..there are none so blind as those who will not see".

[Palfy]

35 minutes ago, MikeO said:

As a wise man once said, "..there are none so blind as those who will not see".

Was that in Kung Fu grasshopper

[StevO]

On 20/01/2019 at 15:59, Bailey said:

I agree that he isnt defensive midfielder however I didnt see Leicester rip Wolves through the middle. I didnt see the first 20 minutes or the first 10 mins of the second. The commentators said Leicester were causing lots of problems in the first 20 and that Gray scored early in the second so I might have just missed it!

They got through them on too many occasions, Wolves play lovely football but they are always looking forward. It wasn’t like it was all Leicester, but they kept getting through. Both teams were too gung ho for me, they can both hit you on the break but neither were strong enough to stop the attacks.