Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[pete0]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Very possibly but we drew with West Brom (who finished bottom with 31 points) home and away without him, you don't think we should be winning those?

Do you think Gana would've made a difference to those results? 

Realistically we should be beating the majority of bottom half clubs at home and getting at least a draw away. Since Gana has been here those wins are harder. Last season especially, barely earned/deserved a single win, even when we won it was more the other team imploding. 

[Matt]

Oh. My. Fucking. God. 

Pete - you are the Theresa May of this thread. 

[Shukes]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Yea he was missing for that one game, I said spell. To expand on Mike's post, of the solo game he's missed we've only lost to teams we'd have lost with him in the side any way. 

We lost two and drew one at home.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Wiggytop said:

I agree on both points, it's Good to see you saw his contribution to the second goal,

IMO he does make more decent passes than we give him credit for, we just don't seem to put enough away

Wiggytop I'm not blind as MikeO has accused me of being of course I saw his contribution to that goal, but since he joined our club he's done know where enough of that, I strongly believe since he joined there as been no improvement in the midfield performances before his arrival no matter who you play him with, for me he lacks so much footballing sense it's embarrassing.

And I believe we are starting to see that his lack of footballing brain is starting to effect Gomes and impede on his game, because he's leaving holes and players whilst he goes jogging all over the field following the ball, and Gomes is struggling to cover his arse, that's why so many teams who we should be dominating are killing us through the middle.

[MikeO]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Wiggytop I'm not blind as MikeO has accused me of being...

Why focus on me? There's a lot of people questioning your eyesight or blind-spot in this debate, at least in that post you're capable of seeing something positive (however small) while pete still maintains his absurd "worst to wear the shirt" mantra.

[Wiggytop]

21 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Wiggytop I'm not blind as MikeO has accused me of being of course I saw his contribution to that goal, but since he joined our club he's done know where enough of that, I strongly believe since he joined there as been no improvement in the midfield performances before his arrival no matter who you play him with, for me he lacks so much footballing sense it's embarrassing.

And I believe we are starting to see that his lack of footballing brain is starting to effect Gomes and impede on his game, because he's leaving holes and players whilst he goes jogging all over the field following the ball, and Gomes is struggling to cover his arse, that's why so many teams who we should be dominating are killing us through the middle.

Palfy, as a matter of interest, and a serious unloaded question, in the following scenario, we sell Gana to PSG, who is your choice to bring in to replace him?

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Why focus on me? There's a lot of people questioning your eyesight or blind-spot in this debate, at least in that post you're capable of seeing something positive (however small) while pete still maintains his absurd "worst to wear the shirt" mantra.

Probably because of your comment yesterday, but your right you haven't been the only one to accuse me of being blind to his ability and you won't be the last. But I have to go with my own beliefs and instincts on him.

[Shukes]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Probably because of your comment yesterday, but your right you haven't been the only one to accuse me of being blind to his ability and you won't be the last. But I have to go with my own beliefs and instincts on him.

No.... your blind! 

[Palfy]

11 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

Palfy, as a matter of interest, and a serious unloaded question, in the following scenario, we sell Gana to PSG, who is your choice to bring in to replace him?

Neves at Wolves 21 and will be one of the best holding midfielders in the world, I heard City see him as a future player for them could probably get him for 40-50 million and he would be worth every penny and he's Portuguese so Silva might have some influence in getting him.

If you don't know much about him go on line and see what he does and read the comments on him he is pure quality.

[Palfy]

19 minutes ago, Shukes said:

No.... your blind! 

Who said that

[MikeO]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Neves at Wolves 21 and will be one of the best holding midfielders in the world, I heard City see him as a future player for them could probably get him for 40-50 million and he would be worth every penny and he's Portuguese so Silva might have some influence in getting him.

If you don't know much about him go on line and see what he does and read the comments on him he is pure quality.

So Gana would be replaceable by spending £50m against the £7m we invested in him. OK.

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

So Gana would be replaceable by spending £50m against the £7m we invested in him. OK.

That has to be one of the most bizarre arguments I've seen so far on this thread, you keep a player just because he only costs 7 million, and you don't want a better player because he would cost 40-50 million how do you see us improving if we don't invest on better players.

If supermarkets sold players and you was the manager we'd be going to Aldi when the top clubs would be going to Waitrose

[MikeO]

15 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That has to be one of the most bizarre arguments I've seen so far on this thread, you keep a player just because he only costs 7 million, and you don't want a better player because he would cost 40-50 million how do you see us improving if we don't invest on better players.

If supermarkets sold players and you was the manager we'd be going to Aldi when the top clubs would be going to Waitrose

It was your argument though, I was just commenting on it.

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

It was your argument though, I was just commenting on it.

Ok fair enough you were just commenting but still how do you improve without investing.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Strawberry flavoured flip flops

 

[MikeO]

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Ok fair enough you were just commenting but still how do you improve without investing.

You utilise the players you have that are up to the job and invest where needed. In my opinion Gana is up to the job he does.

[pete0]

The team that finished 5th was roughly:

Howard 

Coleman Jagielka Distin Baines 

Naismith/Deloufeu Barry McCarthy Mirallas 

Barkley 

Lukaku 

Since then the keeper and three of the back four have been upgraded as have the two wingers yet defensively we give away a lot more in midfield, we lack control and gift chances like never before. The only positions left to look are the two in central midfield and there's only been one constant player in our now poorer performing team. Gana. 

[Matt]

8 hours ago, pete0 said:

The team that finished 5th was roughly:

Howard 

Coleman Jagielka Distin Baines 

Naismith/Deloufeu Barry McCarthy Mirallas 

Barkley 

Lukaku 

Since then the keeper and three of the back four have been upgraded as have the two wingers yet defensively we give away a lot more in midfield, we lack control and gift chances like never before. The only positions left to look are the two in central midfield and there's only been one constant player in our now poorer performing team. Gana. 

Tactics. Change of managers. Evolution of the game. Improvement in competition in the league. Lack of confidence in the team...

Seriously dude, seriously... 

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

Tactics. Change of managers. Evolution of the game. Improvement in competition in the league. Lack of confidence in the team...

Seriously dude, seriously... 

Tactics/managers? We've gone through three of them yet all with the same problem. Before Gana both Moyes and Martinez never had this issue and as go as far to say the only team in recent memory that did was the Aston Villa team that got relegated (at the time I thought it was the other lad in the middle for them that was their issue, sadly I was very wrong). 

Evolution of the game etc.? No other team in the league gets cut up through the middle as easy and often as us, the quality of chances we gift the opposition is criminal at this level and for three seasons now we have been the only team making it so easy through the middle. 

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, MikeO said:

You utilise the players you have that are up to the job and invest where needed. In my opinion Gana is up to the job he does.

But just having one string to your bow isn'tt good enough and that's snapped lately, and the players we utilise aren't working Schniederlin Davies we've seen that, he's a poor footballer and tactically inept and since he joined this club we have gone backwards, we need to get rid of him and Schniederlin and buy a player like Neves we keep serving up the poor midfield performances because what we have isn'tt working, we've changed the managers the players around him and it's still shit and you tell me to open my eyes get real Mike surly your not that to blinkered to see he is the common denominator, then you bring well the 3 games he was out we lost 2 and drew 1, I said it then and I'll say it again he dodged a bullet against City and Spurs 100% 

[Matt]

36 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Tactics/managers? We've gone through three of them yet all with the same problem. Before Gana both Moyes and Martinez never had this issue and as go as far to say the only team in recent memory that did was the Aston Villa team that got relegated (at the time I thought it was the other lad in the middle for them that was their issue, sadly I was very wrong). 

Evolution of the game etc.? No other team in the league gets cut up through the middle as easy and often as us, the quality of chances we gift the opposition is criminal at this level and for three seasons now we have been the only team making it so easy through the middle. 

And Gana is always one of the first names on the teamsheet. Even by the slob who you thought should be given more time and is the most anti-football, defensive minded manager around.

Seriously dude, seriously...

[Wiggytop]

10 hours ago, MikeO said:

So Gana would be replaceable by spending £50m against the £7m we invested in him. OK.

Who knows?  Prices are becoming ever more stupid IMO,  £50m for a player who's had half a season in the PL, must make Jonjoe worth £30m 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

And Gana is always one of the first names on the teamsheet. Even by the slob who you thought should be given more time and is the most anti-football, defensive minded manager around.

Seriously dude, seriously...

The one who was gonna replace him. Even Silva has made no secret of wanting someone else. 

We've had three managers and there's one constant problem. If it's not Gana then what is the issue? 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

And Gana is always one of the first names on the teamsheet. Even by the slob who you thought should be given more time and is the most anti-football, defensive minded manager around.

Seriously dude, seriously...

Yes he is and there lies the problem pal like I say common denominator everything else is changing bar him and were still got one of the worst midfields in the league he is the best of a bad bunch with him we won't improve the last few years have shown us that. To be honest with him in the team I find it hard to see how we can call it a midfield minefield would be a better description.

And something else you got wrong pal I've never condoned that fat slob as you call him be given more time I wanted him gone.

[Aidan]

3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The one who was gonna replace him. Even Silva has made no secret of wanting someone else. 

We've had three managers and there's one constant problem. If it's not Gana then what is the issue? 

Oh come on Pete, the amount of dross that's come through the club since Moshiri came in and you're about to blame the whole shitshow on one of our actual brightest sparks from this era?! 

Gana may be a problem, not for me but certainly for others on this forum, but gana is by far not the sole reason for our problems. Play fair.

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

And something else you got wrong pal I've never condoned that fat slob as you call him be given more time I wanted him gone.

That was to me Palfy. Still maintain we should've kept him a season longer. He would have given us a little stability and solid foundations for a better manager to build on the following year. Silva has come in and got Digne, Zouma, Richarlison, Bernard and Gomes yet is averaging no more points per game than Alladyce. People said fat Sam was only doing better than Koeman as he had Baines and Coleman, that same Coleman that most agree is a weak spot in the side and we've massively upgraded on a now leggy Baines. Crazy that the old manager is critised and forced out after 6 months with someone else's squad, yet the new manager with a much improved squad gets a free pass. 

[Palfy]

13 minutes ago, pete0 said:

That was to me Palfy. Still maintain we should've kept him a season longer. He would have given us a little stability and solid foundations for a better manager to build on the following year. Silva has come in and got Digne, Zouma, Richarlison, Bernard and Gomes yet is averaging no more points per game than Alladyce. People said fat Sam was only doing better than Koeman as he had Baines and Coleman, that same Coleman that most agree is a weak spot in the side and we've massively upgraded on a now leggy Baines. Crazy that the old manager is critised and forced out after 6 months with someone else's squad, yet the new manager with a much improved squad gets a free pass. 

I'll get back to you later mate on that. About to go into a board meeting.

[pete0]

16 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Oh come on Pete, the amount of dross that's come through the club since Moshiri came in and you're about to blame the whole shitshow on one of our actual brightest sparks from this era?! 

Gana may be a problem, not for me but certainly for others on this forum, but gana is by far not the sole reason for our problems. Play fair.

If it's not Gana then who/what is it? 

There's a hole in midfield that helps gift the opposition a clear opportunity every game. No other team has that problem, and it's hard to argue that it's not Gana being out of position causing it. His positioning is nonexistent. 

Tempo on midfield is also drab thanks to his lack of vision or quality in his passing. There's no zip to them, countless times he can't even get a simple pass across to Coleman right. Coleman is a right back, school boy stuff is to put it in front of him weighted so that he can take it on his right boot running forward yet Gana struggles with the pass either hitting it to feet or making the ball bobble or another frustrating one of late passing it in the air unnecessarily, any how point being all three impact the tempo and make it harder for an already struggling Coleman. 

Both these issues are the basics of positioning and passing without them you shouldn't be a footballer nevermind play on the position that relies in them most. 

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I'll get back to you later mate on that. About to go into a board meeting.

Enjoy the tea and biscuits. 

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

Yes he is and there lies the problem pal like I say common denominator everything else is changing bar him and were still got one of the worst midfields in the league he is the best of a bad bunch with him we won't improve the last few years have shown us that. To be honest with him in the team I find it hard to see how we can call it a midfield minefield would be a better description.

And something else you got wrong pal I've never condoned that fat slob as you call him be given more time I wanted him gone.

Baines, Jags, Coleman we’re also ever (more or less) presents over the seasons that Gana has been here. So there is no common denominator that you speak of. 

Pete answered about the slob already