Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Big fat red from me. I'm out.

It’s not the Dragons den unless you meant by I’m out you were down the shops. 

[MikeO]

32 minutes ago, Palfy said:

whether he’s a good player or not for me is not the issue I don’t wish to get into that so no posting or reciting stats, he doesn’t fit for me he doesn’t make us look like a team or part of the team. 

Maybe because the stats illustrate how good he is for us, the facts don't fit your anti agenda.

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Maybe because the stats illustrate how good he is for us, the facts don't fit your anti agenda.

Go on then Mike post his stats for Sunday and his Echo rating if it makes you feel better. 

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Go on then Mike post his stats for Sunday and his Echo rating if it makes you feel better. 

No need, anyone with their eyes open will be aware.

[pete0]

6 minutes ago, MikeO said:

No need, anyone with their eyes open will be aware.

I noticed a huge whole in our midfield on the 56th minute. Lucky Bournemouth were pants as a better team would have punished us. 

[MikeO]

2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I noticed a huge whole in our midfield on the 56th minute. Lucky Bournemouth were pants as a better team would have punished us. 

So he made a mistake just short of an hour? Worst player ever, how dare he?

[Palfy]

23 minutes ago, MikeO said:

No need, anyone with their eyes open will be aware.

Did you watch Sunday's game and if so what was your assessment of his performance?

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Did you watch Sunday's game and if so what was your assessment of his performance?

Not his best, just a seven.

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not his best, just a seven.

I would say a five contributed very little went awol on to many occasions leaving acres of space in the middle, and his Achilles heel of poor passing was very evident again. Of course I except he's not had one of his better games but what concerns me is if he is this big player why has the team not improved since he joined with him in it it good be fairly said quite the reverse.

We've tried him with different partners without much success our midfield looks so poor and for me he's the common denominator, we could make excuses when he played with Schniederlin and Davies that they weren't good enough, but Gomes no way he's quality and needs a partner to compliment him and it's evident for all to see it's not going to be Gana.

And if the PSG story is true I don't see Brands and Silva putting up a big fight to keep him, I think there be happy to see the money and get him off the books so they can bring in someone who fits.

[Sibdane]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I would say a five contributed very little went awol on to many occasions leaving acres of space in the middle, and his Achilles heel of poor passing was very evident again. Of course I except he's not had one of his better games but what concerns me is if he is this big player why has the team not improved since he joined with him in it it good be fairly said quite the reverse.

We've tried him with different partners without much success our midfield looks so poor and for me he's the common denominator, we could make excuses when he played with Schniederlin and Davies that they weren't good enough, but Gomes no way he's quality and needs a partner to compliment him and it's evident for all to see it's not going to be Gana.

And if the PSG story is true I don't see Brands and Silva putting up a big fight to keep him, I think there be happy to see the money and get him off the books so they can bring in someone who fits.

This makes no sense. If Silva would be happy to see him go, then why does he play him week in, week out?

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, sibdane said:

This makes no sense. If Silva would be happy to see him go, then why does he play him week in, week out?

Because he's the best of a bad bunch but that doesn't make him the right foil for Gomes.

[StevO]

47 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Because he's the best of a bad bunch but that doesn't make him the right foil for Gomes.

I don’t really see that. Of the two I would want Gomes, but Gomes can sit deep and Gana press the play in front of him. The whole team still needs to get better though. 

[pete0]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

So he made a mistake just short of an hour? Worst player ever, how dare he?

Just highlighting that once again we were exposed through the middle like no other club in the league is every week. Unbelievable how much he left the defence exposed and no one else highlights it, like the Fulham game people don't seem to be arsed unless we concede from it. 

[markjazzbassist]

i love the guy i really do, he's like lukaku not my favorite but top three on the side.  that being said if PSG will pay 40m for him snap their hands off and have pete and palfy drive him to paris pronto.  he's 29 or 30 already and we could get a young lad (the slovak on celta) to do the same job and use the rest to buy a striker.

[Finn balor]

I think this move will happen, if might not happen in January but if not, deffo in the summer 

[Sev]

9 hours ago, MikeO said:

Maybe because the stats illustrate how good he is for us, the facts don't fit your anti agenda.

But you also know that there's a lot more to football than statistics.

I think it's a fair offer, if true, from PSG. Personally I'd like to see Gana play for another club than us mainly because I don't think he contributes to much other than making a lot of too-safe-passings, hold down the play when not needed and occasionally (quite often in some games) runs a lot out of position. He's all energy and that's nice, but I just don't think he fits to the team... or the other way round.

I really think we could do better and try to find a player that fits the team and style (if there is any for the moment...) better. But with us probably not buying anything in this window perhaps the club should wait to sell him till summer window opens.

[Shukes]

What about when he set up a clear chance Palfy? I even commented in the match thread pointing out that it’s not an assist because we didn’t put it away.

So again opinions aside, he was productive.... FACT.  

Got to give you credit though. You get knocked down ( time and time again) but you get up again. Your like a journeyman boxer mate.

[Hafnia]

Logically speaking there is a gap in our side for a leader, that person may well be the ball winner, organiser, and if it's a case of replacing gana with someone who does that then at his age it's probably smart business. 

[Wiggytop]

59 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Logically speaking there is a gap in our side for a leader, that person may well be the ball winner, organiser, and if it's a case of replacing gana with someone who does that then at his age it's probably smart business. 

Enough of this common sense in a thread of nonsense if you please sir.

[Shukes]

7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Just highlighting that once again we were exposed through the middle like no other club in the league is every week. Unbelievable how much he left the defence exposed and no one else highlights it, like the Fulham game people don't seem to be arsed unless we concede from it. 

Other than Kante. Chelsea nearly conceded twice the last match, due to Kante giving away possession, not only in his own half but his own area. Happens pretty much every week with him. They need to get rid of him..... not even a pub league player him.

[Romey 1878]

I've got no problem with selling any player if it makes sense. 

The fact is that we are a poorer side without Gana in it, it's been shown multiple times. So for this to make sense we have to find a player to replace him and what he brings to the side (preferably costing less than we get for him) and also adds something more. 

If Brands and Silva think they can do that then I'm all for it. 

[DavisJD]

13 hours ago, pete0 said:

I noticed a huge whole in our midfield on the 56th minute. Lucky Bournemouth were pants as a better team would have punished us. 

This moment stood out to me in the game as well. I’ve rewatched the section of play a few times to make my own opinion. 

After Bournemouth had worked the ball to Everton’s front 1/3 and recycled back to the halfway line. Bournemouth had 4 players sitting on our defensive line, and another in Everton’s  half out wide, keeping Lookman occupied from filling the central space. 

Gueye then forced a loose touch on the half way line from his pressure and Siggurdson forced a short pass with his press on the loose touch.

Gomes was then in position to press and attempt a tackle on the receiving player which deflected his pass.

Gueye and Bernard tried to collection possession from the deflected pass but were beaten to it by 1m by a Bournemouth player.

This is where it all went Pete Tong.

 - I’d also point out that from here to the ball reaching a free player in Everton’s 1/3, that played the ball that almost led to a goal, we are talking about just over 5 seconds. -

The Bournemouth player picked a pass backward which Bernard pressed, so Gueye tracked the player wide to the space Bernard left to prevent that pass (Digne was free at this point however 10m deeper). 

Gomes was caught out of position in Everton’s half and the player he had almost forced the turnover on found space central to collect a pass from the Bournemouth defender.

This allowed one of the players that remained forward to step up from the defensive line and pick up the ball with space to turn and run at the Everton defenders and almost play an assist. Almost.

 

My opinion: It was smart movement by the Bournemouth players and good shape to stretch Everton, and great use of space by the young Bournemouth player who made the final pass.

Why was the space there? Silva’s press tactics were in effect and Everton were 1m short of creating a turnover on the halfway line with superior numbers to drive forward.

There was opportunities for Gomes, Gueye and Digne to react and position better but you are talking about scrambling play in less that 5 seconds.

Communication from Keane, Zouma or Digne could have alerted Gueye to drop deep rather that cover Bernard.

Possibly even Zouma or Keane could have stepped forward but this would have been a high risk move to unsettle there shape and positioning at the back.

 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, DavisJD said:

Communication from Keane, Zouma or Digne could have alerted Gueye to drop deep rather that cover Bernard.

It happens at least once a game with Gana in the middle and under the last two managers too. He's just got no football brain, he's an all energy ball magnet which at this level leaves you majorly exposed. 

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

Other than Kante. Chelsea nearly conceded twice the last match, due to Kante giving away possession, not only in his own half but his own area. Happens pretty much every week with him. They need to get rid of him..... not even a pub league player him.

I can't remember us getting a nice easy break through the middle against them. Only game with Gana were his positioning wasn't exploited was Crystal Palace who kept playing over the midfield or down the wing. 

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I've got no problem with selling any player if it makes sense. 

The fact is that we are a poorer side without Gana in it, it's been shown multiple times. So for this to make sense we have to find a player to replace him and what he brings to the side (preferably costing less than we get for him) and also adds something more. 

If Brands and Silva think they can do that then I'm all for it. 

How's that a fact? He had one spell out and I'm those 4 games we won 3 and drew the other one. 

[Shukes]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

It happens at least once a game with Gana in the middle and under the last two managers too. He's just got no football brain, he's an all energy ball magnet which at this level leaves you majorly exposed. 

I can't remember us getting a nice easy break through the middle against them. Only game with Gana were his positioning wasn't exploited was Crystal Palace who kept playing over the midfield or down the wing. 

How's that a fact? He had one spell out and I'm those 4 games we won 3 and drew the other one. 

Won 3 and drew one!!!! Hmmmm!!!!

i think this is why I’m sure your looking at the wrong person. You really should have gone to spec savers.

Offbthe top of my head I remember the 2-5 thrashing to Spurs. Wasn’t he missing for that one? I thought he was but without checking I’ll have to apologise to you.

[MikeO]

15 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Won 3 and drew one!!!! Hmmmm!!!!

That happened in 16/17 while he was at the AFCON,: last season he missed six (in the league) and we won one, drew two and lost three of them:  also lost in the 3rd round of the FA cup without him (against Liverpool admittedly) and the 4th round of the league cup (Chelsea).

This season he's missed three in the league and we drew at home to Huddersfield, lost at City away and got humiliated by Spurs at home. He was also out when we lost on pens to Southampton in the league cup.

[Shukes]

Ahh then yes, he has the wrong player. I knew it along really. 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Won 3 and drew one!!!! Hmmmm!!!!

i think this is why I’m sure your looking at the wrong person. You really should have gone to spec savers.

Offbthe top of my head I remember the 2-5 thrashing to Spurs. Wasn’t he missing for that one? I thought he was but without checking I’ll have to apologise to you.

Yea he was missing for that one game, I said spell. To expand on Mike's post, of the solo game he's missed we've only lost to teams we'd have lost with him in the side any way. 

[Palfy]

10 hours ago, Shukes said:

What about when he set up a clear chance Palfy? I even commented in the match thread pointing out that it’s not an assist because we didn’t put it away.

So again opinions aside, he was productive.... FACT.  

Got to give you credit though. You get knocked down ( time and time again) but you get up again. Your like a journeyman boxer mate.

He was involved in I think a 3 man move for the goal with a nice pass into the man I just wish he would do more of that sort of stuff he would be perfect for me, I've never doubted his ability to win the ball it's always been for me what he doesn't do when he's got it.

In the first ten minutes he received the ball in the middle just in their half Lookman was on his toes looking for the slide rule ball Gana sees this and under no pressure needs to play a 20- 25 yard ball along the ground with only one defender in front of him, so hit it 2 yards with pace to side of defender and Lookman is in behind them, but he plays it directly to the feet of the defender who now gets an interception to his name and he didn't have to move an inch probably one of his best passes of the season shame about who to.

Again we need players in that position who can offer more than one skill set, we are weak in the midfield even though we have great individual players in Gana Gylfi and Gomes, there is no understanding between them, as I said in my previous post Gana is the common denominator.

Let's get the money and move on because were going no where with him no matter who play him with, let's not let him bring Gomes down.

[MikeO]

57 minutes ago, pete0 said:

To expand on Mike's post, of the solo game he's missed we've only lost to teams we'd have lost with him in the side any way.

Very possibly but we drew with West Brom (who finished bottom with 31 points) home and away without him, you don't think we should be winning those?

[Wiggytop]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

He was involved in I think a 3 man move for the goal with a nice pass into the man I just wish he would do more of that sort of stuff he would be perfect for me, I've never doubted his ability to win the ball it's always been for me what he doesn't do when he's got it.

In the first ten minutes he received the ball in the middle just in their half Lookman was on his toes looking for the slide rule ball Gana sees this and under no pressure needs to play a 20- 25 yard ball along the ground with only one defender in front of him, so hit it 2 yards with pace to side of defender and Lookman is in behind them, but he plays it directly to the feet of the defender who now gets an interception to his name and he didn't have to move an inch probably one of his best passes of the season shame about who to.

I agree on both points, it's Good to see you saw his contribution to the second goal,

IMO he does make more decent passes than we give him credit for, we just don't seem to put enough away