marcopaulo Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Isn't he late 20s? Hardly young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaToffee Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 i'll pay to fly over and rent the car and drive him myself. would love a young talented CB in exchange for an often injured player in a position in which we have 6 other players. We can split the plane ticket and car I'll help markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 McCarthy is 25 Kone is 27 As Marco says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Who are the 6? i've done this many times on the forum in the last couple months. gana, barry, Gibson, Davies, Cleverley, Besic. not to mention the captain of our u-23, Ryan Ledson who's been playing very well this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 i've done this many times on the forum in the last couple months. gana, barry, Gibson, Davies, Cleverley, Besic. not to mention the captain of our u-23, Ryan Ledson who's been playing very well this year. I haven't asked Gibson sounds like he could be being moved on? Besic is turning into Saha. Clevs still has better games in him but I don't see him as a CM at all, nor Davies. As true CM's go, Gana Barry and Besic are the only ones for me. Barry (although currently defying his age) isn't going to last forever and is 1 big injury away from retirement. Besic is never fit. So options are slim for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) i've done this many times on the forum in the last couple months. gana, barry, Gibson, Davies, Cleverley, Besic. not to mention the captain of our u-23, Ryan Ledson who's been playing very well this year. New, old, injury / drink-driving prone, untested, decent (but not in the same league), injury prone. Edited August 22, 2016 by Matt Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I haven't asked Gibson sounds like he could be being moved on? Besic is turning into Saha. Clevs still has better games in him but I don't see him as a CM at all, nor Davies. As true CM's go, Gana Barry and Besic are the only ones for me. Barry (although currently defying his age) isn't going to last forever and is 1 big injury away from retirement. Besic is never fit. So options are slim for me. ok so in reality i think we only need 4 of them (if fit and healthy). Gana Barry Davies Cleverley Besic would be fine with me. I like Davies a lot and would like to see him get more time. Were do you see Davies playing J? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Tiger Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 i've done this many times on the forum in the last couple months. gana, barry, Gibson, Davies, Cleverley, Besic. not to mention the captain of our u-23, Ryan Ledson who's been playing very well this year. Barry's career is almost over, Gibson is irrelevant,. Besic is always (and currently) injured, Cleverly isn't a CDM, Davies isn't a CDM. McCarthy is currently a very important depth piece imo. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 all the more reason to sell and get rid to sign some centre mids that aren't injured and old and drunk. not sure why all of you want to have this logjam at this position. get rid of mccarthy and gibson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 ok so in reality i think we only need 4 of them (if fit and healthy). Gana Barry Davies Cleverley Besic would be fine with me. I like Davies a lot and would like to see him get more time. Were do you see Davies playing J? I think Davies is much suited for playing higher up the pitch. But more central, so Barley's role. He's so calm and composed, he could actually (to an extent) be an alternative to Barkley. Runs well, exceptional passer, can hustle players, is a VERY good reader of the game. Could be a Mata'like player (the comparisons are ridiculous at this stage) for us, as he has a very similar skill set. Tom actually works harder. Natural ability in abundance. Just nowhere near that level yet. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Barry's career is almost over, Gibson is irrelevant,. Besic is always (and currently) injured, Cleverly isn't a CDM, Davies isn't a CDM. McCarthy is currently a very important depth piece imo. not sure if you've watched the matches, his career is not over, he's been the best player for us. I think Davies is much suited for playing higher up the pitch. But more central, so Barley's role. He's so calm and composed, he could actually (to an extent) be an alternative to Barkley. Runs well, exceptional passer, can hustle players, is a VERY good reader of the game. Could be a Mata'like player (the comparisons are ridiculous at this stage) for us, as he has a very similar skill set. Tom actually works harder. Natural ability in abundance. Just nowhere near that level yet. ok, no dice for dowell then? i know RM likes him a lot but of the 2 davies looks better to me as well. to all the other comments about my thoughts on our centre mids. look i'm not on here to be popular, i think we have a glut of centre mids, i'd love to get rid of all of them except davies, gana, barry and buy a couple more. that's where i'm at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 straight swap in my book. If McCarthy recovers his form and gets over what has slowed him up then he's a good DM. He's an upgrade on Cattermole for them - McCarthy plus Cattermole in midfield is an ideal Davie Moyes midfield pair. They will be desperate to get McCarthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Tiger Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) I've watched the matches, I'm just also aware that 34 year olds don't tend to have many years left. I'm not downing Barry's current contributions, just saying that he shouldn't be reason to avoid solid CDM signings. He won't be here forever. Seems obvious tbh. Edited August 22, 2016 by Matt Tiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I've watched the matches, I'm just also aware that 34 year olds don't tend to have many years left. I'm not downing Barry's current contributions, just saying that he shouldn't be reason to avoid solid CDM signings. He won't be here forever. Seems obvious tbh. distin played till 38. as has been mentioned in the west brom MOTM thread, barry doesn't rely on pace, energy, fitness, etc. he relies on vision which doesn't change with age (see ryan giggs). with Gana in there as his partner he could play for a good few more years if he stays healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 distin played till 38. as has been mentioned in the west brom MOTM thread, barry doesn't rely on pace, energy, fitness, etc. he relies on vision which doesn't change with age (see ryan giggs). with Gana in there as his partner he could play for a good few more years if he stays healthy. and that's why McCarthy is important until we have further depth. Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) and that's why McCarthy is important until we have further depth. no matt, mccarthy doesn't rely on his vision, he has none. he relies on pace, energy, and running. of which he's second rate now after all those injuries. he's the exact opposite of Barry. he can't attack, he plays 5 yard sideways and backwards passes, he doesn't thread through balls to attackers. he's a destroyer but he's now a damaged destroyer. he's cover for gana. Edited August 22, 2016 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 no matt, mccarthy doesn't rely on his vision, he has none. he relies on pace, energy, and running. of which he's second rate now after all those injuries. he's the exact opposite of Barry. he can't attack, he plays 5 yard sideways and backwards passes, he doesn't thread through balls to attackers. he's a destroyer but he's now a damaged destroyer. he's cover for gana. You're missing the point - until there is a better replacement, we need him for depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 You're missing the point - until there is a better replacement, we need him for depth. we have depth, gibson. he's fit and healthy. also davies. those are the depth for barry. i'm not missing the point. i want rid of all these mid table players. i only want quality players and youngsters from the academy. nothing would make me happier than seeing gibson mccarthy besic cleverley all sold and we buy 2 centre mids to compete with Barry and Gana. the ones we have now (bar davies) are shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) we have depth, gibson. he's fit and healthy. also davies. those are the depth for barry. i'm not missing the point. i want rid of all these mid table players. i only want quality players and youngsters from the academy. nothing would make me happier than seeing gibson mccarthy besic cleverley all sold and we buy 2 centre mids to compete with Barry and Gana. the ones we have now (bar davies) are shit. Gibons - now rumoured to go. "fit", but likely to be injured again after 2-3 games. He's a good player when fit but hugely unreliable Davies - Still young and untested. Could do the job, could turn out to be the next Rodwell - who knows. Cleverley - decent but not the same since his injury. Besic - out for at least 6 months Leaves us with 3 fit CM at this moment in time; Barry, Gana and McCarthy. You want to sell 1 of our fit CMs? I agree with clearance in general, but not this summer. Gibson won't hurt us in going - he never plays. McCarthy does play for us. We need to concentrate on striker and GK, rumours of RB and CB to be improved upon. If you sell these "deadwood", you're expecting 6 signings to address all those positions? By the way, why are we talking CM here Edited August 22, 2016 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Gibons - now rumoured to go. "fit", but likely to be injured again after 2-3 games. He's a good player when fit but hugely unreliable Davies - Still young and untested. Could do the job, could turn out to be the next Rodwell - who knows. Cleverley - decent but not the same since his injury. Besic - out for at least 6 months Leaves us with 3 fit CM at this moment in time; Barry, Gana and McCarthy. You want to sell 1 of our fit CMs? I agree with clearance in general, but not this summer. Gibson won't hurt us in going - he never plays. McCarthy does play for us. We need to concentrate on striker and GK, rumours of RB and CB to be improved upon. If you sell these "deadwood", you're expecting 6 signings to address all those positions? By the way, why are we talking CM here yes papa steve would be so proud of us no i don't think we need 6 cm. i think sell all except barry gana davies. buy 2. that gives us 4 and a youngster. one destroyer who can cover for gana, one "vision" cm like barry who can tackle and defend if need be, but is able to play through balls and start the attacks. honestly i would have loved nothing more than walsh and koeman just clearing the place out of everyone that isn't in there plans, buy a bunch of players. it would be a rough year probably finish 11th again, but at least it wouldn't be this prolonged process over 3 seasons. plus the next year they'd be kicking ass cause they'd have that continuity then. i'm not sentimental though. Edited August 22, 2016 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 yes papa steve would be so proud of us no i don't think we need 6 cm. i think sell all except barry gana davies. buy 2. that gives us 4 and a youngster. one destroyer who can cover for gana, one "vision" cm like barry who can tackle and defend if need be, but is able to play through balls and start the attacks. honestly i would have loved nothing more than walsh and koeman just clearing the place out of everyone that isn't in there plans, buy a bunch of players. it would be a rough year probably finish 11th again, but at least it wouldn't be this prolonged process over 3 seasons. plus the next year they'd be kicking ass cause they'd have that continuity then. i'm not sentimental though. Massive change is dangerous, it can deal irreparable damage to team morale. I agree with the approach (maybe not the method of how it's been done) of getting rid of the real weaker candidates but keeping tried and tested players at least one more window. Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Massive change is dangerous, it can deal irreparable damage to team morale. I agree with the approach (maybe not the method of how it's been done) of getting rid of the real weaker candidates but keeping tried and tested players at least one more window. yeah, i get that method too. it can be difficult though when you've had 3 managers in 5 years though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 back to the topic at hand MOYES ASKS KONE TO STAY AWAY Sunderland manager David Moyes says he has asked centre-back Lamine Kone to stay away from the training ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 We should move Gibson out long before McCarthy (I fail to understand his contract renewal, except as a way to get more money for him). Indeed, I'd move Cleverley out before McCarthy. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Gibson, fit?! Get real. The lad missed the first game of the season at least because HE WAS INJURED. Again. No idea why he missed the WBA game but I'd hazard a guess that HE WAS INJURED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Let them have Gibson. Can't afford to let McCarthy go unless we bring in a midfielder. Davies shouldn't even be considered an option yet, he's just a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Tiger Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Gibson, fit?! Get real. The lad missed the first game of the season at least because HE WAS INJURED. Again. No idea why he missed the WBA game but I'd hazard a guess that HE WAS INJURED. Yup, this... Even if he is fit right now, he hasn't show he can be relied upon on or off the pitch regardless, and will likely not be fit soon. Get rid of him if anyone will have him; I think factoring him into our plans or using him as rationale for not signing a player or not letting a player go is completely mental. I'd love to have Kone. Our back line will be properly destructive with both him and Williams available to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 If we could get Schneiderlin in then I'd be happy to let McCarthy (and Gibson) go. Barry, Gueye, Cleverley, Davies and Schneiderlin for generally 2 positions would leave us very strong - it's a shame Besic is crocked as he could ease the burden on Gueye - maybe we need cover for Besic too. I think Kone will be a 31st Aug deal which may bring Chelsea in for him if they can't get their targets in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Injuries and suspensions McCarthy can't be sold. It's like the Alan partridge thing, I like your quote "evolution not revolution", " no Alan I said the opposite". "exactly!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Getting rid of McCarthy is madness, pure madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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