Lack of physicality in midfield and striker department

[Shy_Talk]

For the first time in a long time we are enduring a prolonged spell of having no target man to hit either when we are in a tight spot or to be able to vary play and go a bit more direct.

In recent memory we've had Ferguson and Campbell, Cahill and Fellaini, clown-shoes seemed to recognise the issue of stature and temporarily brought in Traore seeing as Kone had gone off the boil. Koeman appears to have taken note and shoved Mori forward on occasion.

I realise Gabbiadini didn't move and perhaps he was the Pelle template player to add a bit of strength and aerial power to our front line.


Currently we are stuck with only a 'plan A' of playing and there is no one doing the nasty work of kicking other players like sides kick ours. We will not nicey-nicey our way out of our current malais. The supporters are frustrated and judgemental which has lead to a perceived lack of effort on behalf of the players, sadly we have a few too many similar types, yes I realise Barry is top dog for yellow cards but to afford him in the side we have to make up for his lack of speed with a worker-bee type player in Gueye, Barry was moved on from City because of this time induced impairment.


We either need a striker for Lukaku to work off because he (Lukaku) is a facing goal striker and poacher, a very very high quality one at that, imagine a tony cottee type but over a foot taller, 3 stone heavier and a lot stronger. (Struggles to impact games with aerial prowess, which is why Chelsea let him go as he wasnt the Drogba they dreamed of) Or we get a rough and ready attacking midfielder to hit with the ball and involve the midfield to then work Lukaku in.


Todays pitiful lesson at saints was a shocker because our expensive winger was crowbarred into trying to win headers versus their mob instead of being the player knocking the ball on. Amazing!


They kicked Bolasie, Lukaku, and Barkley, did anyone kick back? Carsley would have put a foot in, Cahill a shot in the guts and lord knows what game Van Dyke would have had against Ferguson.


It is very Everton that when we have aerial powered players to exploit we have no wingers, and now we have wingers galore we have no one for them to provide for.


We paid the clown off for steering the good ship Everton into the ice field. The harm (long term) he is responsible for. Laughing stock.

[pete0]

It's the mentality. Ross and Rom are both naturally very strong. Rom is less of a worry, but Barkley really needs a leader to push him. Sadly we have Jagielka.

[Hafnia]

Strength isn't always relative to size - Lukaku and Barkley are both units - but for me are just not strong.

 

Take Mark Hughes - 5ft 9 or 10, and about 11 stone.... absolute Trojan. Same as Dalglish or Shearer - not huge but applied what they had very well.

 

Its called aggression - aggression give you that little bit of adrenaline and that surge of the extra source of power. You can link aggression to heart... something that we do lack in our team.

[Bill]

The only player who shows any aggression and has the desire to put his boot in is Besic, so sad that his injury record has curtailed his appearance's cos we could do with someone to show a bit of desire at the moment.

[Shy_Talk]

Backs to the wall we clear the ball up field, who's winning challenging contesting the header?

 

Other sides are grinding us down because the easy clearance option isn't so easy for us, we repeatedly clear the ball either into touch and give possession back or up field for a header we don't even try to win and give possession back. So midfield starts out from too deep and is bypassed to the flanks leading to yet another cross and pressure on our defence.

 

Repeat till the opposition score, we kick off and then gift possession away and we go again.

 

I understand that clown-shoes has done irrepairable harm to a number of players, players that now dont have the time to break the shackles of stupidity he insisted upon them. I expected Koeman to turn the brainwashing around, he hasn't. I expected him to then alter the starting line up to take the clown-performers out of the firing line, he didn't. There was rejoicing that he showed he was prepared to make early subs to change things when we were doing badly - great! - but why continue to set us up wrong from the off and stick to it? Thats a clown-shoesway of doing things (stubbornly sticking to a losing setup).

 

Anyway, stronger calls made by the manager required, and someone, anyone fairly mobile to try to hit with clearances and crosses that has some physicality about them.

 

No more shrinking violets.

[Hafnia]

I think Lukaku has to go in January, if not the summer. He is the only player we have that can command a big enough transfer fee to bring in 3 or 4 quality signings on top of some additional spending from Moshiri.

 

As it stands, having Lukaku in the side is utterly pointless, we would be better off with 2 or 3 strikers of equal ability that could hit double figures for us each season.

 

We definitely need a proper no.9 target man who will hustle and bustle defenders, but nore importantly we need proper competition for places. There are far too many players who are safe in the knowledge that they can just go through the motions and expect to start the next game.

 

After the debacle at Southampton we can all but guarantee that an identical starting 11 will be put out against Man Utd, with the possible exception of Mirallas starting in place of Lennon.

 

I agree but for different reasons - quite simply we can't have a passenger up front in a lone striker formation. He is a good finisher - but his size and athleticism only adds to the deception that he is some sort of Didier Drogba in waiting... he just simply isn't.

 

I'm not getting into the whole Haf vs Lukaku nonsense - it is what it is. If people want to tell me that he is the victim of poor service etc then feel free but it's not a case of that.

 

As a striker who is a penalty box predator in the form of a young Kevin Phillips who liked a through ball or to have someone else create havoc around him then fair enough - he is a good penalty box operator but he isn't a forward player in the sense of offering the team options.

 

Lets say we can get £50m for him which I think is a must sell amount - we can put that to use and improve the team for the purpose of how we play. I can't see team splashing out much more than that as he has too much inconsistencies to his game and his application is unacceptably sporadic.

 

If I'm honest I want to see what the manager is trying to do before I want him to be trusted with the money we get from Lukakus sale.

 

Aside from that we need a new centre half - Jags is finished. A new left back as Baines has gone, a number 10.... too much to even comprehend.

[Shy_Talk]

I think Lukaku has to go in January, if not the summer. He is the only player we have that can command a big enough transfer fee to bring in 3 or 4 quality signings on top of some additional spending from Moshiri.

 

As it stands, having Lukaku in the side is utterly pointless, we would be better off with 2 or 3 strikers of equal ability that could hit double figures for us each season.

 

We definitely need a proper no.9 target man who will hustle and bustle defenders, but more importantly we need proper competition for places. There are far too many players who are safe in the knowledge that they can just go through the motions and expect to start the next game.

 

After the debacle at Southampton we can all but guarantee that an identical starting 11 will be put out against Man Utd, with the possible exception of Mirallas starting in place of Lennon.

 

We got lucky with Gueye as he had a relegation clause in his contract which allowed us to swoop in on the cheap, then we made a wad of cash on Stones that we used to over pay (apparently) for Bolassie and Williams.

 

Also the problem with flogging the best bits of the side is we end up substantially weaker, although I dont reckon it'd happen I'm not keen on chancing a relegation fight when we cant sign a player like Campbell to rescue us as there'd be no window now. Lukaku can earn his big money move to a CL regular and good luck to him, sulking about and no spark to carry the fight will have him on a nicolas anelka path instead of a christiano ronaldo path.

 

The Chelsea abortion hurts more than the saints no show, hopefully thats the case in May too.

[Shy_Talk]

Koeman has pointed out that this side is weak and not up to the direct nature and physicality of the league and that we dont apply pressure and win the second balls....

 

If this was such a concern who were we linked with in the summer to address this glaring problem? Sissoko, Gabbiadini, Witsel....?

 

Gueye aint winning us many headers fighting for the long punts from either keeper, Barry doesn't have the speed to get into the aerial battle, so now we're linked with Mata Depay and Schneiderlin, the first two wont be contesting many headers, we've assembled a team of short arses and we kee being ground into pulp by larger heavier sides, I'm not suggesting we become a Stoke side but we have to find a balance that allows us to at least compete.

 

Lukaku will thrive off a classy target man - Mario Gomez is that signing.

Schneiderlin would be an upgrade on McCarthy, can we push Gueye forward to fit another DCM in?

 

Koeman didn't make this mess, it's clown-shoes legacy but it's Koemans watch now and the pressure is on, we were a disgrace when clown-shoes was phenomenalling us weekly to loss after loss - I wonder now if some of the players have it in them to pick themselves up, or if the mental scars, the post traumatic clown-stress disorder has tainted them long term. We're shockingly bad, and the average sides in the league are giving us a stuffing and we got trounced by one of the best sides in the league 5-0, theres no such thing as too good to go down, we need a bit of character, some chemistry, change!

 

Team of short arses living off of faded memories of a clowns phenominal first 80% of a season and a couple of cup semi finals. Hating the experience and have been hating it more and more to a critical mass for months leading to years. Demanded honesty from clown-shoes, demand the same from Koeman, lets hear how bad it really is, point the finger, name the names, pay off and move on the abject failures, too many feint hearts not enough dogs of war.

[Palfy]

Who brought in 4ft-6 Gana not clown shoes, yet you use Gana to back up his claim that the team is weak and not up to the physical aspect of the league. That's what I call an own goal do your homework.

[Shy_Talk]

Give it another read professor.

[markjazzbassist]

we play in the prem not the championship, we don't need billy the bully at centre forward and a thug in the mid. we need skilled technical players. a centre mid who can unlock a defense, dribble well, and who enjoys to pass and assist more than being selfish is what we need and have needed since back in moyes days. get that and you'll see a difference. don't get that and it's the crapshoot of the last few years where we could be worldies or league 1.

[dlblue]

This is why im hoping we sign Schneiderlin in Jan, he's strong and can play. Him and Gana would be great together imo. Shame we missed out on Sigurdsson too, again strong and can play plus scores a few goals.

 

I'd like a similar balance of players that we had under the peak era of Moyes, Some Stong and aggressive types and some flair players. I really think that is something we miss, back then we had Arteta, Pienaar and even Osman who could all keep the ball, create something from nothing and unlock a defense.

[Bailey]

I think it's more than the manager is motivating the players enough to get that out of them.

 

They don't get to where they are by being cowardly or lazy. I have seen each player in this squad fight hard but they aren't doing it at the moment.

 

In my opinion that comes down to the motivation from the manager and the closeness in the group. In a tight group if one person shirks then they get stuck into and they will all work for each other.

[Bill]

Unfortunately players like Hunter and Bremmner from Leeds, Roy Keane from united and Souness from the pool are no longer available these days because the powers that be have cut down on tackles.

We now have to put up with Defenders and midfielders who are more like Nancy boys, but they should still be able to show a bit of pride in their performance.

Our players are showing nothing, no spirit, no guts, and no determination. Piss poor the lot of them.

[SimonButtle]

Unfortunately players like Hunter and Bremmner from Leeds, Roy Keane from united and Souness from the pool are no longer available these days because the powers that be have cut down on tackles.

We now have to put up with Defenders and midfielders who are more like Nancy boys, but they should still be able to show a bit of pride in their performance.

Our players are showing nothing, no spirit, no guts, and no determination. Piss poor the lot of them.

Saying that, Rom could take a leaf out of Diego Costa's book if he wanted, Costa is just awesome when he is on his game

[MikeO]

Unfortunately players like Hunter and Bremmner from Leeds, Roy Keane from united and Souness from the pool are no longer available these days because the powers that be have cut down on tackles.

We now have to put up with Defenders and midfielders who are more like Nancy boys, but they should still be able to show a bit of pride in their performance.

Our players are showing nothing, no spirit, no guts, and no determination. Piss poor the lot of them.

 

The game's much better for that imo, not being a vicious bastard doesn't make you a "nancy boy".

[Romey 1878]

They certainly fought tonight! Lovely to see and I hope this is our turning point.

[Newty82]

Loved the snap of McCarthy and Gana tonight. Really really loved it.

[Bailey]

Told you it was in them!

[smeghead1]

Our players are showing nothing, no spirit, no guts, and no determination. Piss poor the lot of them.

 

Thought they showed the complete opposite last night Bill altho I think these comments were made while we were all thinking for God's sakes not again! I hope last night was the start of something!

[Hafnia]

we seen more physicality in midfield with Mccarthy and gana. Like a modern day Horne and Parkinson. Barry may have to sit out.

 

we seen more physicality up front because of a 5ft 7 forward who is playing with real fight and spirit. He played the last 20 in 2 games previous and changed how we looked up there.... not because of "isolation" - because he is all over the defenders. Not allowing them to pass out - excellent stuff.

[Bill]

Thought they showed the complete opposite last night Bill altho I think these comments were made while we were all thinking for God's sakes not again! I hope last night was the start of something!

Yeah Smeg it was earlier before the game started. But on the Liverpool match day thread I had already said the boys would be up for it.

[Aidan]

The only drama with starting Macca and Gana in defensive midfield is there is nobody there with composure, and vision to pick a pass and set the tempo.

 

They're great when we need to defend our guts out but when we need to control a game we will struggle with that pairing in midfield.

 

I fully expect Barry to return against the shite.

Edited December 15, 2016 by AidanLewis

[Shy_Talk]

The only drama with starting Macca and Gana in defensive midfield is there is nobody there with composure, and vision to pick a pass and set the tempo.

 

They're great when we need to defend our guts out but when we need to control a game we will struggle with that pairing in midfield.

 

I fully expect Barry to return against the shite.

 

I expect Barry in at some point just to wallop Milner. #veryleast.

[Shy_Talk]

All those clearances straight to them, over and over and over again.

 

So very very little for the ball to stick too when played out from under pressure.

 

Sad. Expected. Typical. One win in 12. Garbage.

[Bill]

2 in 12. But still fooking awful.

[markjazzbassist]

Need besic back for cover with McCarthy and need to sign schneiderlin.

[Aidan]

I think Koeman will like Besic, if he's playing Macca and Gueye together, he'd defiantly rotate Besic into that duo.

[Shy_Talk]

I wonder what deficiencies in our midfield and striker areas are exposed all the more due to a significant reduction in composure on the ball and ability to pass out of CB now Stones has moved on.

 

We do work much quicker from one flank to another (much less of the clown-shoes inspired holding the ball in the centre of the pitch inviting being closed down) so the hard work and overlapping especially on our right side has been a solid improvement by comparrison. Cahill or Ferguson to hit would give us a real threat.