Cornish Steve Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Yes, the board did the right thing. The big mistake they made was recruiting a manager who didn't appear to be that keen to manage Everton. He reluctantly accepted the role in return for a huge pay packet, not because he believed in the club. Matt and rubecula 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: Yes, the board did the right thing. The big mistake they made was recruiting a manager who didn't appear to be that keen to manage Everton. He reluctantly accepted the role in return for a huge pay packet, not because he believed in the club. I dunno Steve. I'm pretty sure he didn't reluctantly take it. He wanted it. He believed in the project. And he knew it was the next stepping stone for him. And that was the problem - He was to open about his next move before he had done any hard miles for Everton. He needs to learn that reputation can only carry you so far. Scoring a great goal in '92 (whenever it was) doesn't gift you success for life. If he can get his tongue out if his own arse, he might do well. If not, he'll never be more than another football manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Dreadful quality of football. Obvious tactical mistakes which were being made game after game Huge expenditure which left us with a badly imbalanced squad. Complete inability to integrate new signings and get them up to speed. Zero confidence in the squad Worst performance by an English team in the group stages of the Europa League. In the relegation zone. Need I go on? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 The situation we have now was why I was always reluctant to sack him - who replaces him ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 He lost all his credibility in his fall outs, his interviews, his tactics.... above all else the performances. Forget the results.... not once did I see a performance from his side this season again st good or bad opposition that made me think he was right for the role. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 19 hours ago, wolf8312 said: I cant help but feeling that we utterly panicked! Is it not possible we were just on a very bad losing streak, with an unsettled squad, with new players coming in, and a very difficult cluster of fixtures, combined with the heavy burden of European football? But we never even waited to find out, and see what happened after we got out of Europe, the squad settled down, and most importantly when we extracted ourselves from that awful, and confidence shattering losing streak we were on. The strange thing is fans now seem fully capable of lowering their expectations (all the way down to casting us as relegation fodder) but only now that Koeman is gone, and would never have allowed Koeman's Everton similarly rock bottom expectations! The new manager will perhaps at least enjoy the opportunity of managing a club for which there is a convenient scapegoat to blame for having destroyed what he himself, is just trying to put back together again! Had Koeman enjoyed the expectation of simply staying in the PL, then I think he'd have been in for a very successful season! We will never know now, but it seems to me that we fired Koeman without any idea whatsoever of with whom to replace him, and bizarrely now seem to be running through a list of candidates who seem either less experienced, or just plain inferior to the man we already had! I believe as long as we dont look like going down, we could give Unsworth a chance until we are able to be sure of a decent replacement, but I find it incredible that we should be in this position so soon into the season. Surely the fans cant have had this situation in mind when they called for Koemans dismissal? I think people need to support the signings Koeman made as there's every chance they will come good in the end, when things settle down, and confidence is hopefully restored. For godsake though, lets stop panicking! It's a good post, deserves more than my flippant previous reply. I agree, there's no need to panic - now. Most of the points I would've made have already been covered, but the biggest one is the "never got us" thing. I didn't want him when he came in, I tried to be patient and supportive as much as my conscious would allow, even thought I was being won over towards the season. But, the thing that always stuck in my head is that he almost never referred to the club or squad as "us" or "we". He approached it as a businessman approaching a new role - I've got a task, lets get on with it. That might be ok for some clubs, but not for us. We require and demand more; believe in the club, not simply run it. If you don't believe in the club, it means you don't believe in the team, and no amount of words saying the opposite will cover up the mess that the squad had become. Did he buy into the project? Maybe, but he also had an air of "meh" about him. Never got invested in things, and was never convincing. Regarding the transfers / expenditure; I don't know who did what between him, Walsh and the board, but all of them are accountable for being stupid with the mass, un-organised change of players and the 2 crucial positions not filled. I wouldn't put that down as a reason to sack him, but his failure to then organise the talent he has available (and there's a lot there, even if they're not performing as they should), showed he wasn't up for the job. The reason I think it was the right call in the end, was to stop the rot. Even in pre-season / qualifiers, it looked like we were in trouble and the tough fixture list was a convenient excuse to cover up the shitshow that was being served up game after game. "Waiting to see how things went after we were out of Europe" is absolutely not the right mindset, we should've qualified considering the opposition, or at the absolute least done a lot better than we did. He wasn't capable, he didn't derserve the job, and I'd argue between him and this summers recruitment, there's more damage done than in the last 18 months of Martinez's season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Bringing players that just didn't fit the way he wanted to play highlighted his ineptitude and it had a domino effect as we know He had decent foundations on which to build and he brought in a timber frame and plastic cladding rather than bricks and mortar... Haf rubs off on you eventually 😂 He had to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 As I think about his transfer policy, I can smell a whiff of Trump Syndrome. Many of the things Donald Trump does and says are driven by an obsession to undo everything his predecessor achieved. Likewise, I've had the feeling more than once that Koeman moved players out and picked on others simply because they were Martinez' players. Maybe it's an unfair assessment, but it certainly looked like it at times. DavisJD and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said: As I think about his transfer policy, I can smell a whiff of Trump Syndrome. Many of the things Donald Trump does and says are driven by an obsession to undo everything his predecessor achieved. Likewise, I've had the feeling more than once that Koeman moved players out and picked on others simply because they were Martinez' players. Maybe it's an unfair assessment, but it certainly looked like it at times. No just Koeman, a lot of fans too in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 he once put up a red Christmas tree. Sackable offence that. on a serious note - yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Yes. Never felt comfortable with him from Day 1 but like others prepared to give him a chance, What I couldn't hack was the lack of passion from him and his brother match after match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 It’s certainly looking like we did jump the gun sacking him, especially seeing as though we never had anyone lined up to replace him Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 1 minute ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: It’s certainly looking like we did jump the gun sacking him, especially seeing as though we never had anyone lined up to replace him Weren't wrong to sack him, stupid to have not had someone lined up to replace him. pete0 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Lowensda said: Weren't wrong to sack him, stupid to have not had someone lined up to replace him. Exactly! If we had sacked him in the summer we might not be in this mess! Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 Exactly! If we had sacked him in the summer we might not be in this mess!Why would we have sacked him in the summer??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 13 minutes ago, Bailey said: Exactly! If we had sacked him in the summer we might not be in this mess! But there was nothing substantial to sack him for? We were right to sack him. That can't be disputed. But the way we have gone about it since has become more amateurish as time has gone on. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: Why would we have sacked him in the summer??! 11 minutes ago, Newty82 said: But there was nothing substantial to sack him for? We were right to sack him. That can't be disputed. But the way we have gone about it since has become more amateurish as time has gone on. I wasnt saying we had reason to, just commenting that we wouldnt be where we are now if he was. Would you not agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 I wasnt saying we had reason to, just commenting that we wouldnt be where we are now if he was. Would you not agree?I suppose that depends who you think is responsible for the recruitment I said before Koeman was sacked that I didn’t believe any manager could get us out of this mess without a CF and I still believe that Since he has gone things have gotten a lot worse that’s for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: Since he has gone things have gotten a lot worse that’s for sure Do you think? The wheels have come off the last two games for sure but we were bloody terrible before Koeman went too. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 26 minutes ago, Bailey said: I wasnt saying we had reason to, just commenting that we wouldnt be where we are now if he was. Would you not agree? Impossible to answer really as we have no idea what might have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 Do you think? The wheels have come off the last two games for sure but we were bloody terrible before Koeman went too. Yes I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmytheJimster Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 Sacking Korman was right, not having someone lined up to take over, is where we've gone wrong. West Ham, Leicester and it looks like West Brom, got a new manage with in a fortnight if not sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 3 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: I suppose that depends who you think is responsible for the recruitment I said before Koeman was sacked that I didn’t believe any manager could get us out of this mess without a CF and I still believe that Since he has gone things have gotten a lot worse that’s for sure Even without a top CF you can play much better in midfield and defence. Both of those areas were shite under Koeman and they are no better now under Unsy. Todays level of performance were the same as the last throwings under Koeman. I find it incredible that the club weren't planning ahead. They could have sacked Koeman at least 2 or 3 weeks sooner than they did, so that should have been enough time for a full list of managers to be drawn up. Unsy shouldnt be in the position he is now in, 5 weeks later, with still no clue about what is going on. Its disgraceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Yes he had lost the dressing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said: Yes he had lost the dressing room. Citation needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 I was always worried by who was going to replace him - that’s why I never wanted him sacked for so long- turns out that we still have no clue. I firmly believe he was let down massively by no striker and left sided cb coming in as he was promised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: What do you expect, testimonials from the players? To my knowledge not a single player has even intimated any issues. Players aren't as daft as fans so they know for a fact its not all the managers fault. If they are daft enough to think they aren't massively to blame then that's probably why we're still a pile of shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Yes Should we have had a manager lined up when we did it? Yes Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said: They aren't going to admit that they're shite live to the public. I have seen enough from the body language from the players to suggest that Koeman did not have the answers and that they were unhappy. He was the exact opposite of Martinez but the same in many ways. Proof of the pudding is in the eating, there has been no positive reaction since the change. We are demonstrably worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Yes we were right as he built the squad which looks absolutely useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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