Matheus Nunes

[Gwlad]

Delph was signed on Silva's watch. Maybe he's a fit for Fulham?

[StevO]

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

I agree that most clubs work with a DoF and that they work with the managers to recruit the players or type of players they want, my argument with your first statement was that you want to separate  recruitment from the managers, that’s just not going to happen, the managers who aren’t just there for a pay packet and who are proven will want final say on players and back room staff, are you telling me Pep Klopp Mouirinho Ancelotti don’t get final say on who’s signed for the first team or they shouldn’t?

No one is saying separate the manager from recruitment. We’re saying they will be part of the process. The DOF will run the whole recruitment process and bring the manager a bunch of options. 
No one is saying those managers aren’t getting final say. But they also won’t have the whole say. 
 

Example; manager tells DOF he wants a centre back. DOF comes back with a list of options.
“Here are A, B, C & D. “

“Count out B, I don’t rate him, don’t really know who C is, I’d love A and I’d be alright with D. But have you considered F?”

This kind of process happened last summer, player C was Ben Godfrey. The same thing happened and we got Doucoure.

Doing this means the manager doesn’t have to spend hours and hours looking at 50 different players. That’s already taken care of. He only has to look at a few and then between them they will agree on a plan.

As said many times by many people here; if either the manager or DOF do not want a player, either of them, then the player does not sign for the club. It’s no drama. Just team work, collaboration, however you want to word it. They are all used to the process. The days of David Moyes making all the decisions and Bill signing the cheque are long gone. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

That’s how monchi does it they have a style and the youth play it and the senior team plays it.  They recruit for their style.  Under brands there is no cohesive style, no brand (pun intended) on the side.  We have godfrey and delph, we have digne and Bernard.  There is no signifying thing, which is what worries me.  It’s like we change style and tactics every time we get  new manager, which is exactly what shouldn’t happen with a DOF.  Which is why I question brands worth. If he’s not good enough get some one better.  If he is good enough let him have free reign.

Do you not think Brands will have a style in mind? But we’ve gone through that many managers looking for a short term solution that long term planning hasnt made its way to the first team yet? 

There is a plan in place, if there wasn’t there is no way Brands signs that contract and joins the board of all of the companies. He may be on a good wedge but the man clearly wants to influence footballing decisions. He could do that somewhere else and still get very well paid. 
 

Changing a football club from top to bottom takes time. I’d say it took Moyes at least four full seasons for the team to become consistent. 

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

Do you not think Brands will have a style in mind? But we’ve gone through that many managers looking for a short term solution that long term planning hasnt made its way to the first team yet? 

There is a plan in place, if there wasn’t there is no way Brands signs that contract and joins the board of all of the companies. He may be on a good wedge but the man clearly wants to influence footballing decisions. He could do that somewhere else and still get very well paid. 
 

Changing a football club from top to bottom takes time. I’d say it took Moyes at least four full seasons for the team to become consistent. 

It doesn’t take 4 years.  Brenda took over for Claude puel (Pearson and ranieri before) and instantly they were on the front foot and attacked and have kept at it.  Same with Potter taking over from Hughton at Brighton. 100% manager and tactics. We just need to hire that, and we don’t which pisses me off

[London Blue]

9 hours ago, StevO said:

Do you not think Brands will have a style in mind? But we’ve gone through that many managers looking for a short term solution that long term planning hasnt made its way to the first team yet? 

There is a plan in place, if there wasn’t there is no way Brands signs that contract and joins the board of all of the companies. He may be on a good wedge but the man clearly wants to influence footballing decisions. He could do that somewhere else and still get very well paid. 
 

Changing a football club from top to bottom takes time. I’d say it took Moyes at least four full seasons for the team to become consistent. 

That's a great question.

I think Brands and the board have a broad idea of style, and they want a manager who fits in with that, but the manager must have flexibility to adapt to a point, to fine tune it to suit their idea of what will be successful. 

In our case its a strong defence with a team that hits on the counter, much like our away tactics last season, and a more controlling creative side when at home or the favourite. We will be a passing team. 

 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

That's a great question.

I think Brands and the board have a broad idea of style, and they want a manager who fits in with that, but the manager must have flexibility to adapt to a point, to fine tune it to suit their idea of what will be successful. 

In our case its a strong defence with a team that hits on the counter, much like our away tactics last season, and a more controlling creative side when at home or the favourite. We will be a passing team. 

 

You boy’s are so over thinking this it’s becoming farcical, now we are in the realms of Brands not only picks the players he also has a say in the style of play and the manager has to fit in with that, forgive me but that is hilarious

[Palfy]

11 hours ago, StevO said:

Example; manager tells DOF he wants a centre back. DOF comes back with a list of options.
“Here are A, B, C & D. “

“Count out B, I don’t rate him, don’t really know who C is, I’d love A and I’d be alright with D. But have you considered F?”

This kind of process happened last summer, player C was Ben Godfrey. The same thing happened and we got Doucoure.

Correction that isn’t quite what happened, we firstly went for Hojberg and Gabriel they were who Ancelotti wanted not what was offered to him as an option, Ancelotti was so confident he had an agreement with them both that when it fell through he was incensed enough to blame somebody for leaking the deals which alerted Arsenal and Spurs, if they would have gone through I doubt we would have signed Godfrey and Doucoure, well definitely not Doucoure  Godfrey would possibly have still come because he wasn’t signed as a starter but by Brands as a player to bring on for the future, I will always give credit to Silva for bringing Doucoure to the attention of Brands, although that’s immaterial Brands did suggest Doucoure to Ancelotti and Ancelotti trusted his advice, as Ancelotti said Doucoure was a player he never new. Rafa will work with Brands of course but he will not be dictated by him on player recruitment for the first team, and now the latest belief style of play. 

[StevO]

9 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

It doesn’t take 4 years.  Brenda took over for Claude puel (Pearson and ranieri before) and instantly they were on the front foot and attacked and have kept at it.  Same with Potter taking over from Hughton at Brighton. 100% manager and tactics. We just need to hire that, and we don’t which pisses me off

I’m not trying to be funny Mark, but your expectations of how quickly things change in football as ridiculous. Changing the whole of a football club from top to bottom does take time. It took Moyes four years to stabilise the club, this has all been ripped out by various employees since and is being put back together. 
 

Your examples of Leicester and Brighton are against your argument. It took these clubs years of building and improving their clubs to get to that point. You’ve seen them get to a level and then maintain it. They started way before the people you mentioned. 

[StevO]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Correction that isn’t quite what happened, we firstly went for Hojberg and Gabriel they were who Ancelotti wanted not what was offered to him as an option, Ancelotti was so confident he had an agreement with them both that when it fell through he was incensed enough to blame somebody for leaking the deals which alerted Arsenal and Spurs, if they would have gone through I doubt we would have signed Godfrey and Doucoure, well definitely not Doucoure  Godfrey would possibly have still come because he wasn’t signed as a starter but by Brands as a player to bring on for the future, I will always give credit to Silva for bringing Doucoure to the attention of Brands, although that’s immaterial Brands did suggest Doucoure to Ancelotti and Ancelotti trusted his advice, as Ancelotti said Doucoure was a player he never new. Rafa will work with Brands of course but he will not be dictated by him on player recruitment for the first team, and now the latest belief style of play. 

You’re assuming Hojberg and Gabriel were Carlos choices. Based on what? Love to know where you got all of that detail from.

Godfrey was planned to sign this summer but they moved that forward after missing out on Gabriel. Brands made that clear after he signed. 

Glad to see you agree that Carlo and Brands worked together on those transfers though. As that was the whole fucking point of all of this all along. 

[StevO]

29 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You boy’s are so over thinking this it’s becoming farcical, now we are in the realms of Brands not only picks the players he also has a say in the style of play and the manager has to fit in with that, forgive me but that is hilarious

You know this is how a lot of clubs and their DOF work right? It’s the reason Rodgers and Martinez both got their jobs at Swansea. The same reason the likes of Houghton and Potter got jobs at Brighton. These clubs wanted an identity and want it to continue. So they can implement it with their youth teams and it continues right through the team. Its the old Ajax way, which became the Barcelona way and has been used by clubs all over the world. Some more rigid than others. 

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

I’m not trying to be funny Mark, but your expectations of how quickly things change in football as ridiculous. Changing the whole of a football club from top to bottom does take time. It took Moyes four years to stabilise the club, this has all been ripped out by various employees since and is being put back together. 
 

Your examples of Leicester and Brighton are against your argument. It took these clubs years of building and improving their clubs to get to that point. You’ve seen them get to a level and then maintain it. They started way before the people you mentioned. 

you are confusing the backroom stuff with the pitch.  sure 4 years for backroom stuff no argument there, but on the pitch the tactics doesn't take 4 years, my brenda and potter examples are proof of that.  leicester played sit and counter with ranieri, pearson, and puel for what 3-4 years?  brenda comes in and they possess and attack.  why?  because that is his philosophy.  that's what you hire him for.  my point is we aren't hiring those guys, which is what Brands is supposed to be about.

[Cornish Steve]

15 hours ago, StevO said:

No one is saying those managers aren’t getting final say. But they also won’t have the whole say. 

I'm saying exactly this: Managers must NOT be given the final say. Players must be recruited for the team, not for the manager.

[Palfy]

25 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I'm saying exactly this: Managers must NOT be given the final say. Players must be recruited for the team, not for the manager.

Then who has the final say if not the manager it can’t be the DoF because he’s not the team, are we now introducing a Marxist philosophy on buying players in that if the collective doesn’t agree then it doesn’t happen, someone said this is going to take 10 years to sort out, I would say more like 20 or 30 if we implement your ideals, Brands didn’t want Rafa neither did Kenwright we got Rafa why if Brands is the decision maker on recruitment players and now style of football. 

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Then who has the final say if not the manager it can’t be the DoF because he’s not the team, are we now introducing a Marxist philosophy on buying players in that if the collective doesn’t agree then it doesn’t happen, someone said this is going to take 10 years to sort out, I would say more like 20 or 30 if we implement your ideals, Brands didn’t want Rafa neither did Kenwright we got Rafa why if Brands is the decision maker on recruitment players and now style of football. 

It's the responsibility of a DoF to recruit. If that person does not have the final say, then they can't be held responsible.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

I'm saying exactly this: Managers must NOT be given the final say. Players must be recruited for the team, not for the manager.

Oh, then, no. Don’t know where you get that idea from. 

[Shukes]

Pretty sure we will be doing the same as most teams in the premier league.

We will have a team that brings in potential signings, that then get discussed with the manager and coaches. The manager will concentrate on managing the team.

Man City have proved this to he successful. Pep even said so himself. Many many other teams take this approach. 

Moyes type teams are more prevalent  in the championship these days, where the manager makes 90% of club decisions. Put it this way Rafa has commented today that the modern game doesn’t give managers time to build a team….. modern managers have to good at managing, not admin!

[StevO]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

you are confusing the backroom stuff with the pitch.  sure 4 years for backroom stuff no argument there, but on the pitch the tactics doesn't take 4 years, my brenda and potter examples are proof of that.  leicester played sit and counter with ranieri, pearson, and puel for what 3-4 years?  brenda comes in and they possess and attack.  why?  because that is his philosophy.  that's what you hire him for.  my point is we aren't hiring those guys, which is what Brands is supposed to be about.

I’m not confusing anything. Brands is building every part of the club from scratch apart from the brick work. The tactics are going to be different because we have had a different manager every 18 months, but long term changes are exactly that. Long term. We saw possession football, attacking football, counter football, all in the space of one season with Carlo. But for a long term structure and style of the club that takes time. It took Moyes years to get the team attacking. Brendan went into a good team and made adjustments. We haven’t got the squad he walked into. 

[StevO]

2 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Pretty sure we will be doing the same as most teams in the premier league.

We will have a team that brings in potential signings, that then get discussed with the manager and coaches. The manager will concentrate on managing the team.

Man City have proved this to he successful. Pep even said so himself. Many many other teams take this approach. 

Moyes type teams are more prevalent  in the championship these days, where the manager makes 90% of club decisions. Put it this way Rafa has commented today that the modern game doesn’t give managers time to build a team….. modern managers have to good at managing, not admin!

This!!

[Shukes]

So this guy signing or what? And have we decided if this is a Brands or Rafa target?

[Romey 1878]

Lads, Groundhog Day was just a fucking movie.

[Palfy]

I wonder if Rafas interview went something like this, Brands  “right Rafa you fat twat I’m buying the players I want, I’m also deciding what style of football we play, and like Silva if it all goes wrong you’re taking the rap for it any problems with that fat boy” Rafa “none at all Mr Brands when do I start”. That’s a lot closer to some peoples take on it than mine.

[Shukes]

Good to see Palfy has came through and see’s it how it really is! 

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I wonder if Rafas interview went something like this, Brands  “right Rafa you fat twat I’m buying the players I want, I’m also deciding what style of football we play, and like Silva if it all goes wrong you’re taking the rap for it any problems with that fat boy” Rafa “none at all Mr Brands when do I start”. That’s a lot closer to some peoples take on it than mine.

Brands “don’t fire me farhad”

farhad “you’ll move to the board and keep your mouth shut, I make the decisions around here”

 

brands “yes sir”

[Bailey]

On 15/07/2021 at 02:57, markjazzbassist said:

It doesn’t take 4 years.  Brenda took over for Claude puel (Pearson and ranieri before) and instantly they were on the front foot and attacked and have kept at it.  Same with Potter taking over from Hughton at Brighton. 100% manager and tactics. We just need to hire that, and we don’t which pisses me off

Both are good examples but what happens when Potter and Rodgers go? 

If the club is run as it should be, the next man will slot straight in and build on what those two have achieved. If it isnt, the next guy will be completely different and they will fall back down the table again. Its too short term to point at one manager and say something works. 

Our problem with Brands (and before him) is that we have never had that continuity and that is probably why we stutter from manager to manager. 

We have gone Moyes (defensive and organised) to Martinez (attacking and free flowing) to Koeman (disciplinarian and cold) to Allardyce (say no more) to Silva (what was he?) to Ancellotti (not used to working with crap) and now Benitez.

The theory with Brands is that he should be recruiting managers that build on where the last one left and not ripping it down and starting again. That hasn't realy happened so far although I do think Ancellotti and Benitez are the most aligned out of that bunch. Whether you see that as a good thing is open to debate! 

[RuffRob]

17 hours ago, Bailey said:

Both are good examples but what happens when Potter and Rodgers go? 

If the club is run as it should be, the next man will slot straight in and build on what those two have achieved. If it isnt, the next guy will be completely different and they will fall back down the table again. Its too short term to point at one manager and say something works. 

Our problem with Brands (and before him) is that we have never had that continuity and that is probably why we stutter from manager to manager. 

We have gone Moyes (defensive and organised) to Martinez (attacking and free flowing) to Koeman (disciplinarian and cold) to Allardyce (say no more) to Silva (what was he?) to Ancellotti (not used to working with crap) and now Benitez.

The theory with Brands is that he should be recruiting managers that build on where the last one left and not ripping it down and starting again. That hasn't realy happened so far although I do think Ancellotti and Benitez are the most aligned out of that bunch. Whether you see that as a good thing is open to debate! 

I agree, manager recruitment has definitely been a bit scatter gun. Looking back with hindsight, Ancelotti was maybe a bit of a 'starry eyed' appointment, going against a 'younger' manager approach that had gone before him (not that the ethos of these younger managers was the same).  Allardyce was always just a sticking plaster.

It does look like the last two appointments have 'owner' fingerprints on them maybe a little more than perhaps Brands would ideally like. But they are the 'owner' and the ones shelling out the money and at the end of the day and Brands is one of their employees.

Given where the club is now and where is wants to be, Benitez is probably a very good fit at this moment in time. I think we may have tried to jump a couple of steps with the Ancelotti appointment - and got our finger burnt. 

I think Benitez will put the time, effort and enthusiasm needed in to developing this team. We desperately need a period of stabilisation and steady improvement, get the last of the deadwood sold or at least loan out this summer. 

I am really interested to see what Benitez actually gets out of the incumbent players this season, with a bit more hands on coaching and organisation. I think he could do well with the backing of the club owners.

 

[Bailey]

8 hours ago, RuffRob said:

I agree, manager recruitment has definitely been a bit scatter gun. Looking back with hindsight, Ancelotti was maybe a bit of a 'starry eyed' appointment, going against a 'younger' manager approach that had gone before him (not that the ethos of these younger managers was the same).  Allardyce was always just a sticking plaster.

It does look like the last two appointments have 'owner' fingerprints on them maybe a little more than perhaps Brands would ideally like. But they are the 'owner' and the ones shelling out the money and at the end of the day and Brands is one of their employees.

Given where the club is now and where is wants to be, Benitez is probably a very good fit at this moment in time. I think we may have tried to jump a couple of steps with the Ancelotti appointment - and got our finger burnt. 

I think Benitez will put the time, effort and enthusiasm needed in to developing this team. We desperately need a period of stabilisation and steady improvement, get the last of the deadwood sold or at least loan out this summer. 

I am really interested to see what Benitez actually gets out of the incumbent players this season, with a bit more hands on coaching and organisation. I think he could do well with the backing of the club owners.

 

Re that last paragraph, I certainly think the players will benefit from more work on the training ground. I got the impression at times last season that there wasn't a lot going on at all. 

[Shukes]

So about this guy! Any good or what?

And are we signing him?

[Shukes]

Romey you need to step in and get this thread back on track! Or threaten to kick Ass!

[Romey 1878]

25 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Romey you need to step in and get this thread back on track! Or threaten to kick Ass!

You've been drinking in the sun today, haven't you? You're on the fucking rampage all over the site .

[Shukes]

23 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

You've been drinking in the sun today, haven't you? You're on the fucking rampage all over the site .

It’s my Birthday