Norwich (Away) 15th January

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

This was a must-win game we had to dominate. Key players are back. New players brought in by the manager are available. We're playing by far the worst team in the league. And we never looked like winning.

It's no good blaming the players. Read any book on management: Capable managers know how to get the best from their team. If one or two players get in the way, you move them out. Usually, it happens quickly because a great manager, coming from the outside, knows instinctively what to do. What we face is NOT a player problem; it's a manager problem. I'm not sure why some can't see that.

Asking who can replace him mid-season is a valid question, which is why I urged us to start looking back in early November. I really hope that, behind the scenes, this is happening - but I doubt it. Brands should not have been fired: We don't need scapegoats to justify a terrible manager. So, who can replace Benitez? I've thought long and hard over this, and the only option at this point, I think, is appointing Lampard but just for the remainder of the season. Make him hungry, and give him every reason to succeed.

Long-term, I would return to Roberto, but he will want Belgium to win the World Cup under his watch.

I’ve been thinking a lot about Lampard as a replacement lately. Worth offering him the rest of the season. He may not want it on such a short term basis, but I think it’s worth a try. 

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

I’ve been thinking a lot about Lampard as a replacement lately. Worth offering him the rest of the season. He may not want it on such a short term basis, but I think it’s worth a try. 

[Ghoat]

And he's GONE! This booze just became celebratory 

[StevO]

30 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Could he do worse that this? Seriously? We’re getting spanked every week on the basis that we’ll be fine when we’ve got players back. We just got beat by the bottom of the league with Richarlison on the bench and Allan missing, other than that it’s a full strength team. Who could do worse?! 
Right now I’d take Potter, Dyche, Rooney or Lampard, and that’s just from English managers who come to mind. Actually, I’d take Dean Smith too. Managed to get one over Rafa today with players who mostly wouldn’t even get in our team. You can laugh at Lampard all you like, but I saw a team of players who did not know what the plan was today. I know who I blame for that. 

[Shukes]

Biggest problem now is anyone can come in and have an easy ride as the only way is up. Players are back, and as we witnessed second half once Richie and Mina came on…. We were a much better team.

Its an easy take for anyone that wants it. 

[StevO]

9 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Biggest problem now is anyone can come in and have an easy ride as the only way is up. Players are back, and as we witnessed second half once Richie and Mina came on…. We were a much better team.

Its an easy take for anyone that wants it. 

A manager needs to come in and get the players onside, get the fans onside and try to unify the fans and the team. Do that and Goodison becomes a happier and more intimidating place. We just need some positivity. Rafa has done nothing but tell us there are problems. Bring someone in who will tell us what we can be positive about. 
 

I want a manager who does not know the city.

[Formby]

35 minutes ago, StevO said:

A manager needs to come in and get the players onside, get the fans onside and try to unify the fans and the team. Do that and Goodison becomes a happier and more intimidating place. We just need some positivity. Rafa has done nothing but tell us there are problems. Bring someone in who will tell us what we can be positive about. 
 

I want a manager who does not know the city.

Can you not let us know what these positive things are, so I can sleep tonight? 

[StevO]

30 minutes ago, Formby said:

Can you not let us know what these positive things are, so I can sleep tonight? 

Blue is a really nice colour. We do t have warm Chang anymore. We still love Big Joe. 

[Btay]

5 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

And for the record, just watching attitude on the pitch, I would have moved out Digne (so I have no issue there), Gomes, and (sadly) Coleman. Keane is suffering from poor confidence, a result of poor planning and tactics from the manager. IMO, he could do worse than stand up to the manager and take charge himself of the defence. He has it in him, and has every incentive to do so. When things go wrong, Benitez always blames others, and Michael Keane may increasingly be his target.

Oh come on. The manager is not the reason for Micheal Keane being the same Micheal Keane we have seen since he signed here. Things are getting tough and he is cracking, he will continue to crack worse the more pressure he feels.

He has never in any circumstance taken charge of our defence. We will not move up the table with him playing.

[Bailey]

44 minutes ago, Btay said:

Oh come on. The manager is not the reason for Micheal Keane being the same Micheal Keane we have seen since he signed here. Things are getting tough and he is cracking, he will continue to crack worse the more pressure he feels.

He has never in any circumstance taken charge of our defence. We will not move up the table with him playing.

I would say the manager is the reason for exposing Michael Keane's weaknesses to the opposition. 

I thought he was a little unlucky today. He has to come out of position to see off the first challenge and then he has to try and get back into position. He is getting his bearings, get back into position and check for dangers, when the ball comes in and he cant get himself sorted in time and stabs it into the back of the net. I can see why he felt like he had to get something on it, especially as Idah was coming in behind him. 

I think the biggest issue with that goal is how the Norwich players had so much space to start the move. Mykolenko is so deep to start with and he doesnt get out. We invite them to the edge of the box. We offer them an overlap and then dont get out and stop the cross. You cannot do that in this league and expect not to get punished. It is an invitation for mistakes.

The second goal was exactly the same. Coleman and Gordon on different wavelengths (just as Gomes and Rondon were seconds before). Then its a counter attack. Godfrey is right to delay but he loses Pukki and gets a little too fixated on the ball and Keane has to shift himself across to cover. Mykolenko, despite having a good go doesn't have the recovery pace to get back in time. I would love to know if there was any communication between the two CBs on that attack because I doubt it.

 

[Btay]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I would say the manager is the reason for exposing Michael Keane's weaknesses to the opposition. 

I thought he was a little unlucky today. He has to come out of position to see off the first challenge and then he has to try and get back into position. He is getting his bearings, get back into position and check for dangers, when the ball comes in and he cant get himself sorted in time and stabs it into the back of the net. I can see why he felt like he had to get something on it, especially as Idah was coming in behind him. 

I think the biggest issue with that goal is how the Norwich players had so much space to start the move. Mykolenko is so deep to start with and he doesnt get out. We invite them to the edge of the box. We offer them an overlap and then dont get out and stop the cross. You cannot do that in this league and expect not to get punished. It is an invitation for mistakes.

The second goal was exactly the same. Coleman and Gordon on different wavelengths (just as Gomes and Rondon were seconds before). Then its a counter attack. Godfrey is right to delay but he loses Pukki and gets a little too fixated on the ball and Keane has to shift himself across to cover. Mykolenko, despite having a good go doesn't have the recovery pace to get back in time. I would love to know if there was any communication between the two CBs on that attack because I doubt it.

 

I’m sorry and I really try to respect opinions but don’t expect change if we are happy to accept that level of performance. He’s been the same under ever manager so if they are all exposing his weakness then it’s clear as day he isn’t suited to this level.

Watch the second goal when you can - Godfrey ushers him over to Puuki. Keane lacks any authority or will to command and just follows and leaves his man open. Gordon was right on Williams and could have brought him down if need be. We need a commander at the back and this moment showed again it’s not him.

[nyblue23]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I would say the manager is the reason for exposing Michael Keane's weaknesses to the opposition. 

I thought he was a little unlucky today. He has to come out of position to see off the first challenge and then he has to try and get back into position. He is getting his bearings, get back into position and check for dangers, when the ball comes in and he cant get himself sorted in time and stabs it into the back of the net. I can see why he felt like he had to get something on it, especially as Idah was coming in behind him. 

I think the biggest issue with that goal is how the Norwich players had so much space to start the move. Mykolenko is so deep to start with and he doesnt get out. We invite them to the edge of the box. We offer them an overlap and then dont get out and stop the cross. You cannot do that in this league and expect not to get punished. It is an invitation for mistakes.

The second goal was exactly the same. Coleman and Gordon on different wavelengths (just as Gomes and Rondon were seconds before). Then its a counter attack. Godfrey is right to delay but he loses Pukki and gets a little too fixated on the ball and Keane has to shift himself across to cover. Mykolenko, despite having a good go doesn't have the recovery pace to get back in time. I would love to know if there was any communication between the two CBs on that attack because I doubt it.

 

2 hours ago, Btay said:

Oh come on. The manager is not the reason for Micheal Keane being the same Micheal Keane we have seen since he signed here. Things are getting tough and he is cracking, he will continue to crack worse the more pressure he feels.

He has never in any circumstance taken charge of our defence. We will not move up the table with him playing.

Whoever comes into needs to play a back four of Patterson to see if he's ready (and unfortunately still Coleman if not), Mina, Branthwaite, and Godfrey at LB. It won't be pretty but I don't see how it could be any worse than what we're working with at the moment. For one, we've said for years that Keane is a confidence player and I'm afraid it's shot forever at this point. Mykolenko is clearly not ready to be playing in the PL. I don't know how long he needs, but these last two performances are not it. And Holgate is not up to it either. Godfrey at LB is less than ideal but at least he's pacy and strong and knows the PL. At least the four mentioned at the beginning have all the reason to prove themselves and would consistently put in a full shift regardless of performance.

[Btay]

1 minute ago, nyblue23 said:

Whoever comes into needs to play a back four of Patterson to see if he's ready (and unfortunately still Coleman if not), Mina, Branthwaite, and Godfrey at LB. It won't be pretty but I don't see how it could be any worse than what we're working with at the moment. For one, we've said for years that Keane is a confidence player and I'm afraid it's shot forever at this point. Mykolenko is clearly not ready to be playing in the PL. I don't know how long he needs, but these last two performances are not it. And Holgate is not up to it either. Godfrey at LB is less than ideal but at least he's pacy and strong and knows the PL. At least the four mentioned at the beginning have all the reason to prove themselves and would consistently put in a full shift regardless of performance.

Mykolenko has been thrown to the wolves with this backline right now. There is no organisation, no calming influence. Coleman is frantic and caused panic. Keane & Godfrey are in a rut. It cant be easy trying to integrate into a new league, new language with no leader around you.

[nyblue23]

Just now, Btay said:

Mykolenko has been thrown to the wolves with this backline right now. There is no organisation, no calming influence. Coleman is frantic and caused panic. Keane & Godfrey are in a rut. It cant be easy trying to integrate into a new league, new language with no leader around you.

Agreed, but he truly doesn’t look up to it at this point in time. I’m not saying he’s a bad player or he won’t get there. But his passing has been pedestrian at best and every attempted cross so far has been awful. Neither of those are contingent on having organization. The calming influence I get, and I recognize he’s probably trying to do too much at the moment. But he needs time to settle before destroying his confidence the way these last two matches are likely to have done.

[Shukes]

10 hours ago, StevO said:

A manager needs to come in and get the players onside, get the fans onside and try to unify the fans and the team. Do that and Goodison becomes a happier and more intimidating place. We just need some positivity. Rafa has done nothing but tell us there are problems. Bring someone in who will tell us what we can be positive about. 
 

I want a manager who does not know the city.

Ferguson.

[Shukes]

7 hours ago, Btay said:

I’m sorry and I really try to respect opinions but don’t expect change if we are happy to accept that level of performance. He’s been the same under ever manager so if they are all exposing his weakness then it’s clear as day he isn’t suited to this level.

Watch the second goal when you can - Godfrey ushers him over to Puuki. Keane lacks any authority or will to command and just follows and leaves his man open. Gordon was right on Williams and could have brought him down if need be. We need a commander at the back and this moment showed again it’s not him.

I’m not getting this earlier. I honestly thought we played such shot football last year that it was like having Sam back. 
Keane was exactly the same last year, as was Holgate, Godfrey, Coleman and Digne.

But everyone else seems to remember it differently?

My memory is that the only games we actually attacked were when Rodriguez played. And I’m pretty sure we sold him.

As bad as it is this season, the football is at least a bit easier on the eye. Surprised our fans aren’t begging for Mourinho, he plays similar to last season.

[StevO]

38 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I’m not getting this earlier. I honestly thought we played such shot football last year that it was like having Sam back. 
Keane was exactly the same last year, as was Holgate, Godfrey, Coleman and Digne.

But everyone else seems to remember it differently?

My memory is that the only games we actually attacked were when Rodriguez played. And I’m pretty sure we sold him.

As bad as it is this season, the football is at least a bit easier on the eye. Surprised our fans aren’t begging for Mourinho, he plays similar to last season.

In the first half of the season we were much much better, we played good football and we attacked. The second half of the season we were shite. 
 

Im not having that our football is easier on the eye this season. We’ve had a few individuals put in good performances and score brilliant goals, but as a team the football has been crap. Attacked? Counter attacked yeah, but we’ve hardly had the ball all season. 

[Shukes]

2 minutes ago, StevO said:

In the first half of the season we were much much better, we played good football and we attacked. The second half of the season we were shite. 
 

Im not having that our football is easier on the eye this season. We’ve had a few individuals put in good performances and score brilliant goals, but as a team the football has been crap. Attacked? Counter attacked yeah, but we’ve hardly had the ball all season. 

I’m not having it. 
Football was shit last year and it’s nearly as shit this year.

But if you think Keane wasn’t making these same mistakes last year and being a pushover, you must be on something strong. Everyone was complaining about Godfrey last year…. Same goes for Digne, Holgate. They were all crap and most of us begged for a new CB.

Ancelotti was compared to Sam his football was that boring. Same as Rafa this season… had a good start and then fell from a great height. We’ve been shit for a long time.

We need a change in our whole strategy, not just a manager, but our transfer strategy, our identity, our commitment and our attitude.

 

[StevO]

9 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I’m not having it. 
Football was shit last year and it’s nearly as shit this year.

But if you think Keane wasn’t making these same mistakes last year and being a pushover, you must be on something strong. Everyone was complaining about Godfrey last year…. Same goes for Digne, Holgate. They were all crap and most of us begged for a new CB.

Ancelotti was compared to Sam his football was that boring. Same as Rafa this season… had a good start and then fell from a great height. We’ve been shit for a long time.

We need a change in our whole strategy, not just a manager, but our transfer strategy, our identity, our commitment and our attitude.

 

As I said, second half of the season was shite, but I think we were very good in the first half of the season. We were attacking well, beating teams, some of the goals we scored came from great football being played across the team. 
 

Didn’t comment on Keane so not sure what that’s about. Only commented on how the team play. 

[Shukes]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

As I said, second half of the season was shite, but I think we were very good in the first half of the season. We were attacking well, beating teams, some of the goals we scored came from great football being played across the team. 
 

Didn’t comment on Keane so not sure what that’s about. Only commented on how the team play. 

Sorry that was my main point on the post you quoted. 
 

I have the solution. What if Kenright did a motivational speech on the pitch like Delia Smith did for Norwich…. That worked didn’t it!

Come on you bluish! Let’s be Avin you!

[Romey 1878]

37 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Sorry that was my main point on the post you quoted. 
 

I have the solution. What if Kenright did a motivational speech on the pitch like Delia Smith did for Norwich…. That worked didn’t it!

Come on you bluish! Let’s be Avin you!

I often wonder whether you are on medication and you sometimes forget to take it.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

In the first half of the season we were much much better, we played good football and we attacked. The second half of the season we were shite. 
 

Im not having that our football is easier on the eye this season. We’ve had a few individuals put in good performances and score brilliant goals, but as a team the football has been crap. Attacked? Counter attacked yeah, but we’ve hardly had the ball all season. 

If you look I think you will find we never had the greater part of possession in most of the games last season, but the possession we saw with Ancelotti was predominantly in our own half with side and backwards passing, a pretty pointless stat in all fairness. 

[StevO]

8 minutes ago, Palfy said:

If you look I think you will find we never had the greater part of possession in most of the games last season, but the possession we saw with Ancelotti was predominantly in our own half with side and backwards passing, a pretty pointless stat in all fairness. 

And then goals, and wins and points, in the first half of the season. All of the things that I personally like to see from Everton. But yeah, second half of the season was shite. 

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, StevO said:

And then goals, and wins and points, in the first half of the season. All of the things that I personally like to see from Everton. But yeah, second half of the season was shite. 

Points make prizes mate

[StevO]

7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Points make prizes mate

We’re Evertonians, we don’t know about prizes!

Well, Florida Cup aside. 

[Bailey]

12 hours ago, Btay said:

I’m sorry and I really try to respect opinions but don’t expect change if we are happy to accept that level of performance. He’s been the same under ever manager so if they are all exposing his weakness then it’s clear as day he isn’t suited to this level.

Watch the second goal when you can - Godfrey ushers him over to Puuki. Keane lacks any authority or will to command and just follows and leaves his man open. Gordon was right on Williams and could have brought him down if need be. We need a commander at the back and this moment showed again it’s not him.

This is my point, Godfrey takes a position that means Keane has to cover Pukki. You are dealing in really short time periods and communication will be difficult. Keane has to react to Godfrey. He cant shout at him and wait and see if he does it because otherwise Pukki is clean through. 

Its very difficult to defend a quick counter attack especially when it is 3 v 2. I think they could have left the ball carrier and marked the players in the middle for longer but that starts from Godfrey and not Keane. I don't blame Godfrey for it either because he had to make those decisions in split seconds based on what he could see. Its a failure of the play of Gordon / Coleman and the positioning of Mykolenko (Benitez) than anything either of those CBs did or didnt do. 

4 hours ago, Shukes said:

I’m not having it. 
Football was shit last year and it’s nearly as shit this year.

But if you think Keane wasn’t making these same mistakes last year and being a pushover, you must be on something strong. Everyone was complaining about Godfrey last year…. Same goes for Digne, Holgate. They were all crap and most of us begged for a new CB.

Ancelotti was compared to Sam his football was that boring. Same as Rafa this season… had a good start and then fell from a great height. We’ve been shit for a long time.

We need a change in our whole strategy, not just a manager, but our transfer strategy, our identity, our commitment and our attitude.

 

Keane was probably one of the better players under Ancelotti. He was certainly more consistent than he ever has been and one of the concerns I had about this season was how he would adapt to playing higher up the pitch (from playing on the 6 yard box under Carlo).

That last bit is spot on though. If this cycle is to stop, it needs to be stopped from the very top and a new approach needs to be taken.