dunlopp9987 Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Surprised it's been this long and no one's posted about the news yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 10 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said: Surprised it's been this long and no one's posted about the news yet... I can only speak for myself, but I hadn't posted about it because I really don't care. Formby, MikeO, Matt and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 10 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said: Surprised it's been this long and no one's posted about the news yet... Most distressing thing for me is that Celebrity Masterchef won't now be on TV tonight. Nothing against the lady, was hoping she'd outlive Charles to avoid his witch of a wife getting to be called queen, but there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, MikeO said: Most distressing thing for me is that Celebrity Masterchef won't now be on TV tonight. Nothing against the lady, was hoping she'd outlive Charles to avoid his witch of a wife getting to be called queen, but there you go. BBC Football site has no football content apparently. Impressive lady, but a stranger to me. Wish her family all the best though. Bailey and Shukes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MikeO Posted September 8, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Liz Truss, on record as being anti-royal, visits queen; two days later, queen dead....tea cup laced? Just saying. Cornish Steve, Matt, StevO and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 56 minutes ago, Matt said: Impressive lady, but a stranger to me. Wish her family all the best though. Absolutely. I have a theory though; that she died six months ago, but because of all the money spent on jubilee celebrations they used look-alikes and holograms to carry it through before stage managing today. Plausible. Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad all over Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Inevitable, same age as my late mum. Still the end of an era however you view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 Not a fan of the royal family at all, I just don’t think it’s justified in this day and age. But I do recognise that she was a great woman and it’s a sad day when someone of that statute dies. She was Queen, she was a grandmother, she was a mother. I feel for her family at this moment and feel for all the people that worship the monarchy, even if I don’t myself. RIP and respect. Palfy, RPG and StevO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 BBC 1 News Special. BBC 2 News Special. BBC 3 has been suspended. Please switch to BBC 1 for special news report. BBC 4 has been suspended. Please switch to BBC 1 for special news report. I get it BBC, I know what's happened, has the world really stopped turning outside Balmoral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Matt said: Impressive lady, but a stranger to me. Wish her family all the best though. Very nicely put. Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Shukes said: Not a fan of the royal family at all, I just don’t think it’s justified in this day and age. Agreed. Completely anachronistic. We've now had Liz and Charles foist upon us in quick succession. Baffled as I am that 81,326 people actually saw anything in her, the thought that there will be those who see something in him beggars belief. Rule f'in Britannia. MikeO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 12 minutes ago, Formby said: Agreed. Completely anachronistic. We've now had Liz and Charles foist upon us in quick succession. Baffled as I am that 81,326 people actually saw anything in her, the thought that there will be those who see something in him beggars belief. Rule f'in Britannia. If Charles had an ounce of sense he'd have made it very clear a long time ago that he was going to stand aside and let William succeed when his mum died. But that aside I agree, bin the lot of them. Liz has been through such hard times I've heard all day long, must be so difficult to decide which of five castles you're going to spend your next month in. Life's a bitch. Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 2 hours ago, MikeO said: Liz Truss, on record as being anti-royal, visits queen; two days later, queen dead....tea cup laced? Just saying. It did cross my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 One positive from all this is that I will no longer cringe when I hear the term Duchess of Cornwall: there's a new one. By the way, why is the term 'Queen Consort' being used? She's not a queen anything. Shouldn't she be something like the Duchess of Edinburgh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 2 hours ago, MikeO said: Absolutely. I have a theory though; that she died six months ago, but because of all the money spent on jubilee celebrations they used look-alikes and holograms to carry it through before stage managing today. Plausible. She definitely didn't die this afternoon. My guess is last night. The Palace PR team always kicks in. King George V was famously put to sleep so he'd die on the right day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Matt said: Impressive lady, but a stranger to me. Wish her family all the best though. Dysfunctional as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 8, 2022 Report Share Posted September 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said: By the way, why is the term 'Queen Consort' being used? She's not a queen anything. Shouldn't she be something like the Duchess of Edinburgh? It’s a really tough one to get your head around if you think about it Steve, but I’ll explain in simple terms. The term “Queen Consort” is being used because, and you might struggle with this bit, she is the Queen Consort. Palfy and Matt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 3 hours ago, StevO said: It’s a really tough one to get your head around if you think about it Steve, but I’ll explain in simple terms. The term “Queen Consort” is being used because, and you might struggle with this bit, she is the Queen Consort. Then it's going to take some getting used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 9 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: Dysfunctional as it is. What family isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 9 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: Dysfunctional as it is. Who would have thought… a family steeped in age old traditions, prisoners caged in luxury homes, told what to wear, how to act. Could be a bit dysfunctional. wouldn’t thank you for one day of their lives. Matt and Quinn31 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Hafnia said: Who would have thought… a family steeped in age old traditions, prisoners caged in luxury homes, told what to wear, how to act. Could be a bit dysfunctional. wouldn’t thank you for one day of their lives. Don't forget inbreeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 I know we’ve been talking about it in the longest thread but, regardless of how you feel about the Queen or the monarchy, I think this is a major point in history and deserves it’s own thread. I’ll move posts from the longest thread into here (they will likely be above this post). KinL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted September 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 3 hours ago, StevO said: I know we’ve been talking about it in the longest thread but, regardless of how you feel about the Queen or the monarchy, I think this is a major point in history and deserves it’s own thread. I’ll move posts from the longest thread into here (they will likely be above this post). This is sort of how I feel about it all. I think the whole notion of the monarchy over there is sort of ridiculous in this modern age, but I also can't help but be intrigued by it. I'm sure it has to do with me being an absolute history nut, because the whole thing is so archaic. Maybe it just fascinates me because it feels like something that is so medieval. Anyhoops, I agree that despite how you feel about the monarchy, it is still a major world news story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted September 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 There's a very large portion of the world who is certainly not mourning, and rightfully so. MikeO, Hafnia and KinL 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 4 hours ago, StevO said: I know we’ve been talking about it in the longest thread but, regardless of how you feel about the Queen or the monarchy, I think this is a major point in history and deserves it’s own thread. I've seen this floated in a number of headlines and am curious as to what people imagine will change now. The Empire went before she took the throne, the Commonwealth is just a trading platform, regard for the royals has been in serious decline the last seventy years. I get the end of an era reflections, but not really how this changes Britain. Charles obviously wants things to continue as they were - more's the pity. The establishment will still be there; our political structure, too. Brexit, the war in Ukraine, have been pivotal moments in European / world history - with tangible change felt by all. The death of the Queen, however sad for the family and those who were minded to buy Jubilee mugs and wave Union Jacks, does not feel like that to me. I am sure there will be those on the board who feel it does. I would be very interested to hear in what way. Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 I hope it'll be the start of the end of the monarchy. I can't see the Commonwealth lasting much longer too, a lot of the members are only still in it due to their high regard for the Queen and that won't hold with Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaids Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 16 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: One positive from all this is that I will no longer cringe when I hear the term Duchess of Cornwall: there's a new one. By the way, why is the term 'Queen Consort' being used? She's not a queen anything. Shouldn't she be something like the Duchess of Edinburgh? If I remember well, her being divorced and married to the now king poses a constitutional problem; she cannot become the Queen. Remember that Edward VIII abdicated because of his wife. Hence they created the 'Queen Consort' title to bypass this issue. Can't remember the details but basically Queen Consort does not equal Queen = constitutional crisis avoided. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/mar/22/politics.monarchy MikeO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir McGiven Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 As a Turkish person, the only thing that connects me to her is/was my granpa. It's a well-known information in my family that he was deeply in love with her, even grandma was knowing it and mocking him as she was aware how delusional he was about Elizabeth. But yeah, my grandpa was thinking that she was so beautiful. Actually before getting married to my grandma, he tried to get on a ship, reach to UK by think that he may find a way to talk about his love to her. He was a good man, a very dedicated, good father/grandfather but a crazy man as well, in his own craziness. My grandpa passed away 14 years ago, and my dad's first reaction to the news yesterday was "Now my dad can have a real chance to go after her". I am neutral when it comes to my feelings about her. She is, though, definitely an important part of the modern day history. That's for sure. My condolences to those in this forum who cares about her and the royal family. Romey 1878, MikeO, Hafnia and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said: As a Turkish person, the only thing that connects me to her is/was my granpa. It's a well-known information in my family that he was deeply in love with her, even grandma was knowing it and mocking him as she was aware how delusional he was about Elizabeth. But yeah, my grandma was thinking that she was so beautiful. Actually before getting married to my grandma, he tried to get on a ship, react to UK by think that he may find a way to reach her and talk about his love to her. He was a good man, a very dedicated good father/grandfather but a crazy man as well, in his own craziness. My grandpa passed away 14 years ago, and my dad's first reaction to the news yesterday was "Now my dad can have a real chance to can go after her". I am neutral when it comes to my feelings about her. She is, though, definitely an important part of the modern day history. That's for sure. My condolences to those in this forum who cares about her and the royal family. Great story I have today been banned from a Facebook group (about a holiday destination) after they invited comments on Liz 2 but said anyone making disrespectful ones would be removed. I made no disrespectful comment, I simply questioned the authority of Facebook admins to police what was respectful and what wasn't. Banned with no explanation, their loss Good job we're not so trigger happy on here, we'd have no members left! Romey 1878 and Sir McGiven 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 It’s amazing the warmth and love people from all round the world had for the queen, that can’t be denied whether you are royalist or not, her loss will be felt greater than Mandela’s even Putin has praised her, who would have thought that possible with what’s going on between Russia and the rest of the free world and particularly Britain. She was excellent in her service to this country she helped us prosper because she was so respected by the heads of state from probably every other country globally, were most of our PM’s and MP’s have been a hindrance to our country for more decades than I care to remember. I have been a royalist all my life and will remain so if Charles can carry on the work she did for this country with the diligence and respect she showed her whole life. StevO, KinL, RPG and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted September 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Palfy said: It’s amazing the warmth and love people from all round the world had for the queen, that can’t be denied whether you are royalist or not, her loss will be felt greater than Mandela’s even Putin has praised her, who would have thought that possible with what’s going on between Russia and the rest of the free world and particularly Britain. She was excellent in her service to this country she helped us prosper because she was so respected by the heads of state from probably every other country globally, were most of our PM’s and MP’s have been a hindrance to our country for more decades than I care to remember. I have been a royalist all my life and will remain so if Charles can carry on the work she did for this country with the diligence and respect she showed her whole life. Ok maybe this is just an ignorant American speaking but like...what actual work do they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said: Ok maybe this is just an ignorant American speaking but like...what actual work do they do? Just Google it please I think you will be pleasantly surprised, and will cure your ignorance. RPG, Hafnia and KinL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Palfy said: It’s amazing the warmth and love people from all round the world had for the queen, that can’t be denied whether you are royalist or not, her loss will be felt greater than Mandela’s even Putin has praised her, who would have thought that possible with what’s going on between Russia and the rest of the free world and particularly Britain. She was excellent in her service to this country she helped us prosper because she was so respected by the heads of state from probably every other country globally, were most of our PM’s and MP’s have been a hindrance to our country for more decades than I care to remember. I have been a royalist all my life and will remain so if Charles can carry on the work she did for this country with the diligence and respect she showed her whole life. Not in a million years for me, and it doesn't come close to Diana's death in my estimation either. I'm no royalist but I will say that I thought Charles spoke very well earlier, comments on his wife aside; has he, or she, actually ever apologised for their adultery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said: Ok maybe this is just an ignorant American speaking but like...what actual work do they do? They do whatever the government tells them to do, they rubber stamp things and look impressive in a pageantry sort of way to impress Johnny Foreigner; when Phil the Greek was alive they made spectacular gaffes. They bring in tourism, sort of like our version of Euro Disney if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, MikeO said: Not in a million years for me, and it doesn't come close to Diana's death in my estimation either. I'm no royalist but I will say that I thought Charles spoke very well earlier, comments on his wife aside; has he, or she, actually ever apologised for their adultery? Apologies to who, to you or me why would he and why should he, I’m sure any regrets or apologies he may have felt he needed to give would have been to his family, I also don’t remember any apologies from Diana over her affair but then I wouldn’t expect one. RPG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Palfy said: Apologies to who, to you or me why would he and why should he, I’m sure any regrets or apologies he may have felt he needed to give would have been to his family, I also don’t remember any apologies from Diana over her affair but then I wouldn’t expect one. Diana was never unfaithful before it became apparent that Charles was being so with Camilla, and in all likelihood had been since before their wedding. Why should he apologise or at least acknowledge his "sin"? Because he's now the head of the church of England and he broke one of the commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, MikeO said: Diana was never unfaithful before it became apparent that Charles was being so with Camilla, and in all likelihood had been since before their wedding. Why should he apologise or at least acknowledge his "sin"? Because he's now the head of the church of England and he broke one of the commandments. 2 wrongs don’t make a right Mike you know that as well as anyone, like I said we aren’t and shouldn’t expect to be privy to what may or may not have been said between him is children and greater family. I’m not at all religious so won’t be getting my knickers in a twist about the English church or commandments, as neither have the church who married him and will be performing his investiture as King, I’m not hearing anymore comments on that issue possibly because over 80% of people have been guilty of the same thing. Don’t look at relationships as black and white very few are perfect like that, in text it might be a sin, but in reality it’s not even for him and Camilla, if he’s guilty of anything it was marrying Diana when he knew he loved another, but shit happens even if you next in line to the throne. But there’s very little point in debating this I won’t change your opinion and you won’t change mine, plus you’re wrong or you wouldn’t have been banned from Facebook RPG and StevO 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Palfy said: It’s amazing the warmth and love people from all round the world had for the queen, that can’t be denied whether you are royalist or not, her loss will be felt greater than Mandela’s even Putin has praised her, who would have thought that possible with what’s going on between Russia and the rest of the free world and particularly Britain. She was excellent in her service to this country she helped us prosper because she was so respected by the heads of state from probably every other country globally, were most of our PM’s and MP’s have been a hindrance to our country for more decades than I care to remember. I have been a royalist all my life and will remain so if Charles can carry on the work she did for this country with the diligence and respect she showed her whole life. Media, media, media. If these forums are typical, there's also a lot of apathy. Sibdane and MikeO 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Palfy said: 2 wrongs don’t make a right Mike you know that as well as anyone, like I said we aren’t and shouldn’t expect to be privy to what may or may not have been said between him is children and greater family. I’m not at all religious so won’t be getting my knickers in a twist about the English church or commandments, as neither have the church who married him and will be performing his investiture as King, I’m not hearing anymore comments on that issue possibly because over 80% of people have been guilty of the same thing. Don’t look at relationships as black and white very few are perfect like that, in text it might be a sin, but in reality it’s not even for him and Camilla, if he’s guilty of anything it was marrying Diana when he knew he loved another, but shit happens even if you next in line to the throne. But there’s very little point in debating this I won’t change your opinion and you won’t change mine, plus you’re wrong or you wouldn’t have been banned from Facebook You think? I find myself in a minority then. But my point is that if you hold yourself up to be a leader, an exemplar; you need to have no skeletons in your cupboard, or at least if you do you need to own up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, MikeO said: You think? I find myself in a minority then. But my point is that if you hold yourself up to be a leader, an exemplar; you need to have no skeletons in your cupboard, or at least if you do you need to own up to them. I’m not saying you are in a minority, I’m saying I haven’t read or heard anyone bring that comment up since the Queen passed before you did earlier. He didn’t hold himself up to be the King he was born to be the King, he probably doesn’t want to be King truth be known, yet being a father he’s not abdicating he’s allowing his son to spend as much time as possible with his young family for as long as possible, there will be plenty of time all being well for William to be King but right now he needs to give his kids as much attention as he can. KinL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, Palfy said: I’m not saying you are in a minority, I’m saying I haven’t read or heard anyone bring that comment up since the Queen passed before you did earlier. He didn’t hold himself up to be the King he was born to be the King, he probably doesn’t want to be King truth be known, yet being a father he’s not abdicating he’s allowing his son to spend as much time as possible with his young family for as long as possible, there will be plenty of time all being well for William to be King but right now he needs to give his kids as much attention as he can. But you are, you're saying that 80%+ of people are adulterers, and I'm not one of them, so how does that not put me in a minority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, MikeO said: But you are, you're saying that 80%+ of people are adulterers, and I'm not one of them, so how does that not put me in a minority? Your be happy to know you are not in the minority got my figures mixed up 36% admit to having affairs, and it was 88% of divorces are due at least one partner having an affair. Whether those two stats are comparable is another matter there will obviously be a percentage who won’t admit to an affair if they had one, so there’s no way of knowing how small or large that figure might be, so you could be in a minority and not know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hafnia Posted September 9, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 4 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said: Ok maybe this is just an ignorant American speaking but like...what actual work do they do? Shit loads. Ignorant brits spout the usual crap like “never done a days work in their lives”…. Some of them like Edward maybe but the Queen? Absolute machine. once a week she met with the prime minister, every single one of them remarked as to how smart she was on world affairs (she spent mornings review news). She had daily documents to review, absolute tons of admin. Circa 430 appointments a year right up till a few years ago. when entertaining officials from other countries she would try and use their language. She made it her business to know details about them so she could talk appropriately. she would get official parliamentary once a week at the same time, she would administer them that night. throw in all the hours of travelling to and from venues and it’s a job I wouldn’t like to do. To do that for 70 years and live like a prisoner? No thanks. Palfy, StevO, RPG and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 10 hours ago, MikeO said: But my point is that if you hold yourself up to be a leader, an exemplar; you need to have no skeletons in your cupboard, or at least if you do you need to own up to them. Some (most) people in that situation don't hold themselves up (as you put it) but are held up. The individual leader can only do his or her best. A subtle, but very important, difference. No human being is perfect and there will always be a number of people with an agenda who will look for any way to try to undermine an institution which has served this country well for many centuries. Perhaps those people might consider following one of the many fine examples set by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and start looking for the best in people rather than the worst. An interesting debate and it will never be resolved one way or the other on this board as you either are, or are not, a Royalist. I am, am proud to be so and always will be. Hafnia, Palfy and KinL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 I’m not a monarchist but I often find the arguments against the monarchy very dated and somewhat envy driven. Like that “taxpayers money” line…. The monarchy cost a fraction of what they earn us. I’d sooner have the monarchy own alot of our land than it going to Chinese or Russian investors like it has over the past. the monarchy is doing a better job at moving forward than many peoples attitudes towards them. As it stands I think the monarchy will be in less stable ground because the Queen was such a force. Palfy, KinL and RPG 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 I’m no royalist, but I have more time for the royal family than I do the government. The last few days have been a bit sad, made me think about my Grandma and my Nan, they both loved the queen. I don’t see any point in being against the monarchy, brits I’m talking about here, only because there is no way of changing it. They aren’t going to stand down, give up the money, the titles, the properties. They are going no where, if you don’t support them might as well just act like they don’t exist. I’ve seen so many people on social media being angry, it won’t help or change. Just be passive and save yourself the stress. On the bank holiday just spend some time with people you care about, doing something that doesn’t involve all of this. Hafnia, RPG, MikeO and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 Couple of thoughts: If you guys don't like Charles, would you consider taking Donald Trump as your King? It'd be a perfect fit, he loves attention but should be nowhere near power, holds views from the colonial times, and has a terrible sense of interior decor? Second thought: https://www.timeout.com/uk/news/the-route-the-royal-train-will-take-to-bring-the-queen-back-to-london-090922 It would appear John Burns has taken to writing under the penname India Lawrence MikeO and Matt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 I sympathize with anyone who is saddened by her loss. Personally, I think the whole monarchy thing is ridiculous, but I also come from the land of the Big Mac, so I know where I stand. She seemed pretty decent though. I honestly can’t think of a bad thing to say about her other than some of her family sucks. She always presented herself in a very respectable manner. I also didn’t know about all the charity work she had done, so more props to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 In principle, I have no issue with a monarch, and such an institution can provide stability and unique sense of national identity, but monarchy is the source of an aristocracy that is truly outdated. The children of lesser royals inherit titles and/or privileges that are undeserved, and such an institution is rife for justified criticism. Earl this and Baron that. Marquis of this and Duke of that and Viscount whatever. Large swathes of Cornwall, for example, are owned by such people who, quite often, don't even live in Britain. Instead, they live the life of Riley in Spain or elsewhere, living off the profits of rents from Cornish farmers and residents struggling to make a living. It's been this way for centuries, of course: Looking into family history records, I note that many of my ancestors were taken to court for hunting rabbits or pheasant in fields owned by these absentee but powerful landlords. The term often coined is hangers-on. How many times have I heard the statement "I have great respect for the queen but not for all the hangers-on." Many years ago, I led an international project with members from both the US and the UK. One senior technical lead insisted on working his way. As project manager, I insisted that everyone use the same editor for writing specs, for example, but this guy point-blank refused - causing a logistical nightmare. On one occasion, when I tried to firmly make the point, his response was "do you know that I'm the nephew of the Duke of so-and-so? I do things my way." I never forgot this. The lesser royals from previous generations still maintain this spirit of superiority and entitlement. We really ought, as a society, to have moved beyond this. Also, years ago, the queen's estate did itself no favors by submitting a grant request to the local council for fencing around the Balmoral estate. The queen doesn't pay taxes, yet her estate sought a council grant paid for by local taxes. This is another example of abuse of privilege and sense of entitlement. It's clear the queen was a very hard worker and had a strong sense of responsibility. I wouldn't want to be in her position, or now in Charles' position, not in a million years. But we can't really have a king or queen without the lesser royals (the hangers-on), and those hangers-on will always carry that sense of being better than others. This is why, on the whole, I am against royalty. Plus, of course, the monarch's eldest son, as Duke of Cornwall, secures most of his income from the Duchy of Cornwall, despite the Cornish being among the poorest people in the nation. That doesn't sit well with me. I am relieved, though, that there's now a different Duchess of Cornwall. I no longer have to cringe every time I hear that title. dunlopp9987, Hafnia, Sibdane and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 12 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: In principle, I have no issue with a monarch, and such an institution can provide stability and unique sense of national identity, but monarchy is the source of an aristocracy that is truly outdated. The children of lesser royals inherit titles and/or privileges that are undeserved, and such an institution is rife for justified criticism. Earl this and Baron that. Marquis of this and Duke of that and Viscount whatever. Large swathes of Cornwall, for example, are owned by such people who, quite often, don't even live in Britain. Instead, they live the life of Riley in Spain or elsewhere, living off the profits of rents from Cornish farmers and residents struggling to make a living. It's been this way for centuries, of course: Looking into family history records, I note that many of my ancestors were taken to court for hunting rabbits or pheasant in fields owned by these absentee but powerful landlords. The term often coined is hangers-on. How many times have I heard the statement "I have great respect for the queen but not for all the hangers-on." Many years ago, I led an international project with members from both the US and the UK. One senior technical lead insisted on working his way. As project manager, I insisted that everyone use the same editor for writing specs, for example, but this guy point-blank refused - causing a logistical nightmare. On one occasion, when I tried to firmly make the point, his response was "do you know that I'm the nephew of the Duke of so-and-so? I do things my way." I never forgot this. The lesser royals from previous generations still maintain this spirit of superiority and entitlement. We really ought, as a society, to have moved beyond this. Also, years ago, the queen's estate did itself no favors by submitting a grant request to the local council for fencing around the Balmoral estate. The queen doesn't pay taxes, yet her estate sought a council grant paid for by local taxes. This is another example of abuse of privilege and sense of entitlement. It's clear the queen was a very hard worker and had a strong sense of responsibility. I wouldn't want to be in her position, or now in Charles' position, not in a million years. But we can't really have a king or queen without the lesser royals (the hangers-on), and those hangers-on will always carry that sense of being better than others. This is why, on the whole, I am against royalty. Plus, of course, the monarch's eldest son, as Duke of Cornwall, secures most of his income from the Duchy of Cornwall, despite the Cornish being among the poorest people in the nation. That doesn't sit well with me. I am relieved, though, that there's now a different Duchess of Cornwall. I no longer have to cringe every time I hear that title. Much of what you say is difficult, at first pass, to argue with. However, as a parallel situation I would compare your thoughts on the monarchy with those of Churchill's on democracy when he opined that 'Democracy is a terrible way to run a country. Until you consider the alternatives!' When you start thinking a bit deeper about the monarchy, and assuming we still value such things as tradition, national identity, pride, history, patriotism (not nationalism) etc then the monarchy becomes a focal point about which we can focus on the past, learn lessons for the future, preserve our traditions, be a touchstone for Prime Ministerial guidance - and do all of this from an apolitical position. Occasionally a royal will step out of line and due process is applied. Andrew has effectively been sidelined, Harry and Megan are very much on the periphery of royal circles and will shortly go back to making their own way in what passes for their private life in USA. For me, the monarchy is a fantastic institution which, overall, gives far more to the country than it takes. It is not perfect but we are far better off maintaining our monarchy. If we don't value our traditions, national identity, pride, history, patriotism etc then I would suggest that the monarchy is the least of our issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 11 hours ago, Quinn31 said: Couple of thoughts: If you guys don't like Charles, would you consider taking Donald Trump as your King? It'd be a perfect fit, he loves attention but should be nowhere near power, holds views from the colonial times, and has a terrible sense of interior decor? Second thought: https://www.timeout.com/uk/news/the-route-the-royal-train-will-take-to-bring-the-queen-back-to-london-090922 It would appear John Burns has taken to writing under the penname India Lawrence No longer happening. I believe HM will be flown back to either Brize Norton or Northolt in a change of plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 On 10/09/2022 at 09:26, Hafnia said: The monarchy cost a fraction of what they earn us. I presume you mean the money they bring in through tourism? There is no reliabe figure for that although huge sums are bandied around by supporters of the RF. The fact is, people come to the UK for many different reasons. I don't doubt that beautiful, old 'royal' buildings are part of the appeal. Hoping to see an actual living royal is probably not. The RF and the state has been particularly good in reminding us of their own inestimable worth. They're also very good at saying, yes but what would you replace them with? That is not an argument for keeping them. Ditto, institutions like the House of Lords. I have no animus against the Queen or the people who loved her, but Philip, Charles, Andrew, Edward and the rest? Cmon, people, we can do a lot better than this. Romey 1878, MikeO and dunlopp9987 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 12 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: In principle, I have no issue with a monarch, and such an institution can provide stability and unique sense of national identity, but monarchy is the source of an aristocracy that is truly outdated. The children of lesser royals inherit titles and/or privileges that are undeserved, and such an institution is rife for justified criticism. Earl this and Baron that. Marquis of this and Duke of that and Viscount whatever. Large swathes of Cornwall, for example, are owned by such people who, quite often, don't even live in Britain. Instead, they live the life of Riley in Spain or elsewhere, living off the profits of rents from Cornish farmers and residents struggling to make a living. It's been this way for centuries, of course: Looking into family history records, I note that many of my ancestors were taken to court for hunting rabbits or pheasant in fields owned by these absentee but powerful landlords. The term often coined is hangers-on. How many times have I heard the statement "I have great respect for the queen but not for all the hangers-on." Many years ago, I led an international project with members from both the US and the UK. One senior technical lead insisted on working his way. As project manager, I insisted that everyone use the same editor for writing specs, for example, but this guy point-blank refused - causing a logistical nightmare. On one occasion, when I tried to firmly make the point, his response was "do you know that I'm the nephew of the Duke of so-and-so? I do things my way." I never forgot this. The lesser royals from previous generations still maintain this spirit of superiority and entitlement. We really ought, as a society, to have moved beyond this. Also, years ago, the queen's estate did itself no favors by submitting a grant request to the local council for fencing around the Balmoral estate. The queen doesn't pay taxes, yet her estate sought a council grant paid for by local taxes. This is another example of abuse of privilege and sense of entitlement. It's clear the queen was a very hard worker and had a strong sense of responsibility. I wouldn't want to be in her position, or now in Charles' position, not in a million years. But we can't really have a king or queen without the lesser royals (the hangers-on), and those hangers-on will always carry that sense of being better than others. This is why, on the whole, I am against royalty. Plus, of course, the monarch's eldest son, as Duke of Cornwall, secures most of his income from the Duchy of Cornwall, despite the Cornish being among the poorest people in the nation. That doesn't sit well with me. I am relieved, though, that there's now a different Duchess of Cornwall. I no longer have to cringe every time I hear that title. I do agree with much of what you say especially with junior royal's being paid from the state purse, Charles is already said he is going to cull that further than the Queen did a few years ago to maybe only 5 who are paid for by the state. I maybe be wrong but I’m sure the Queen a few year’s ago volunteered to pay taxes. I remember watching the documentary series of Charles and his Duchy of Cornwall estate he was well liked by his tenants and gave a lot of time and help to their needs, also as with other estates owned by the royals they are sympathetic to these estates and protect them from commercial company’s who would destroy them for big profits, I would like to think that you and the people of Cornwall would appreciate that the landscape and it’s beauty isn’t being developed by greedy developers and large commercial farming industries. RPG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Palfy said: I do agree with much of what you say especially with junior royal's being paid from the state purse, Charles is already said he is going to cull that further than the Queen did a few years ago to maybe only 5 who are paid for by the state. We don't actually know anymore how many of the royals are supported by the taxpayer, since the civil list was abolished ten years ago. All we know is how much goes to the royals in general (figure to April this year was £102.4 m); given that the "headline value of their holdings" was put by Forbes last year at $28 billion (£24b); and that they have a huge income from real estate/property, you'd think they'd manage to scrape by without help from the likes of you and me. Formby and dunlopp9987 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad all over Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 I like having a monarchy and do follow them to a certain extent. For the 21st century a slimmed down monarchy is a must and those who have brought it into disrepute must have no further roles. So, King and Queen, Anne, Wessexes - they bridge the gap nicely between the old (Charles) and the younger (William and Kate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Gwlad all over said: I like having a monarchy and do follow them to a certain extent. For the 21st century a slimmed down monarchy is a must and those who have brought it into disrepute must have no further roles. So, King and Queen, Anne, Wessexes - they bridge the gap nicely between the old (Charles) and the younger (William and Kate). I've always been a big believer in the idea that those who pay taxes can allocate some or all of those funds to causes of their choice. For example, I would choose for my tax money to go towards education, healthcare, and welfare and not to defence. That way, those who admire the royals can choose to "give" more of their taxes to them. Those who prefer the royals not to be dependent on the public purse can avoid giving to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad all over Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 I like having a monarchy as opposed to a republic. Steve, do you have a choice where your taxes go in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 34 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said: I've always been a big believer in the idea that those who pay taxes can allocate some or all of those funds to causes of their choice. For example, I would choose for my tax money to go towards education, healthcare, and welfare and not to defence. That way, those who admire the royals can choose to "give" more of their taxes to them. Those who prefer the royals not to be dependent on the public purse can avoid giving to them. That'd be a logistical nightmare surely, does it actually happen anywhere? Like the idea but don't see it being workable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 11, 2022 Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said: I've always been a big believer in the idea that those who pay taxes can allocate some or all of those funds to causes of their choice. For example, I would choose for my tax money to go towards education, healthcare, and welfare and not to defence. That way, those who admire the royals can choose to "give" more of their taxes to them. Those who prefer the royals not to be dependent on the public purse can avoid giving to them. By the same token, should your country end up at war but you didn’t help fund the defence, can your GPS location be sent to the enemy to be targeted first? You know, to help the people who paid for defence to be defended? Cant have it all ways. RPG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPG Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: I've always been a big believer in the idea that those who pay taxes can allocate some or all of those funds to causes of their choice. For example, I would choose for my tax money to go towards education, healthcare, and welfare and not to defence. That way, those who admire the royals can choose to "give" more of their taxes to them. Those who prefer the royals not to be dependent on the public purse can avoid giving to them. An interesting concept but not at any cost to defence for me and totally unworkable in practice. I am reminded of a meme and a response to the meme I saw on FB recently. Someone had written 'If you child can read, thank a teacher' Underneath it, a Veteran had written: 'And if your child reads in English, thank a Veteran.' - thereby perfectly, yet easily, demonstrating the inextricable link between education and defence in UK our society. We need them both (and many more) and they each have to be paid for by all of us. Freedom doesn't come for free. Also, if you choose to not spend 'your' tax contribution on defence, I may choose to make up your defence shortfall for you and I may also choose to pay for it by an appropriate reduction in my contribution to Cornish education, Cornish health, Cornish roads, Cornish energy subsidies and Cornish welfare., So, your proposal then just becomes an added admin cost for no overall benefit. I presume those who choose not to pay tax to support any particular aspect of society will also do the decent thing and not try to claim any benefit from that aspect of society too? Which part of Cornwall would you like us not to defend? Which multi national corporation would you like the Duchy of Cornwall to sell all the land to? It must be ripe for 'development.' A slightly tongue in cheek riposte to your suggestion but I hope it makes my point. There is far too much potential for 'thin end of the wedge' division in your concept for me. We do actually have a degree of control how our taxes are spent. Every 5 years or so we have a general election and manifesto pledges are made with regard to, inter alia, taxation spending which we can then vote on. Its worked well for quite some time and I see no need to change it now. ✌ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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