Sean Dyche

[Cornish Steve]

13 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Branthwaite has made tarkowski up his game .  Quality quality player who will be a very very regrettable sale. 

From the evidence, you could also conclude that Tarkowski has helped Branthwaite up his game. Honestly, given the former's experience and the latter's lack of it in the Premier League, I would say this second scenario is more likely. Either way, the two of them have forged a powerful defensive partnership, and I only hope we can keep it next season.

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Tarkowski, Brainthwaite, Mykolenko and Pickford deserve all the praise and credit for our defensive performances, Pickford for making some of the best saves in the league to keep clean sheets, no coaching from Dyche, Tarkowski for always getting a foot in when needed, no coaching from Dyche. 

Do you know for how many years Tarkowski has played under Dyche?

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Do you know for how many years Tarkowski has played under Dyche?

Yes I know he played with him at Burnley the same as Keane did, but obviously for a lot longer. 

[MikeO]

5 hours ago, Palfy said:

Okay if you say so Pep, but what did Dyche do tactically for you to say he deserves the credit for our defensive performances, I don’t believe he does and have explained my reasons why, many will disagree and that’s fine but I have at least explained my opinion, you have yet to say why you believe the credit should go to Dyche, I may not agree with you but you never know you might surprise me, but unless you answer my question we will never know. 

Because he's in charge?

Buck stops with him when things are going badly, but he gets no credit when things are going well? Seems a little blinkered to me, he's on a hiding to nothing.

[Palfy]

28 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Because he's in charge?

Buck stops with him when things are going badly, but he gets no credit when things are going well? Seems a little blinkered to me, he's on a hiding to nothing.

Okay fair point Mike, but I have a counter point to that I won’t be able to answer for a while in the office getting ready for a VAT inspection at 11:00 could be a long day if they find anything a miss.

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Okay fair point Mike, but I have a counter point to that I won’t be able to answer for a while in the office getting ready for a VAT inspection at 11:00 could be a long day if they find anything a miss.

Good luck

[Matt]

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

Not so sure Matt. 

100% is.

[Matt]

31 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Okay fair point Mike, but I have a counter point to that I won’t be able to answer for a while in the office getting ready for a VAT inspection at 11:00 could be a long day if they find anything a miss.

Good luck. I'm going for a workshop on EU VAT post Brexit I a couple of weeks, can't wait...

[StevO]

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

He was on the bench for the first game against Fulham and he was on the bench for the second game against Villa, we narrowly lost to Fulham 1-0 but got hammered 4-0 by Villa and Keane was as shocking has he was last season, then Keane gets dropped and Brainthwaite gets in. Why would you put an injured player on the bench?

He wasn’t injured by that point, he just wasn’t fully fit to start a game as he was only recently back in training. I didn’t say he misses the start of the season with injury, he missed pre season. This isn’t something I’m making up. This is what was being asked of Dyche at the time about Branthwaite being given a chance and him telling the press he wasn’t fit yet after the summer and he will get a chance when fit. 

[RuffRob]

19 hours ago, Palfy said:

First game of the season Dyche’s back 4 Young. Keane. Tarkowski. Patterson, Mykolenko Dyche even said of Mykolenko he wasn’t ready for the PL and had a long way to go before he would be ready, or words very similar, and no Branthwaite he preferred Keane even though Keane was a complete liability the season before when he stuck him at the cost of Coady who had a good record in defence with Tarkowski, and that fateful decision nearly cost us our place in the PL, we went on our worst run with Keane in the team and after 7 games he had to concede he had got it wrong and revert back to Coady and Tarkowski which saved us from the drop. 
Second game back 4 of Young.Keane.Tarkowski.Patterson. Third game back 4 of Young.Brainthwaite.Tarkowski. Patterson, he has once again had to concede that he had again got it wrong with Keane and I expect reluctantly put Brainthwaite into the team which went against his ethos of experience before youth. The fourth game back 4 Young.Branthwaite.Tarkowski.Patterson. Fifth game Back 4 Mykolenko.Branthwaite.Tarkowski.Young now the penny has dropped and he has to relent and bring Mykolenko in the player that 4 games ago wasn’t good enough for the PL, but instead of dropping Young who was shocking in the games he had already played he decides to switch Young to RB and drop Patterson another player who he would later say wasn’t good enough yet for the PL. 

In my opinion Dyche never put together our defence all the players were already here bar the worst of them which is Young who he brought to the club, with Pickford, Mykolenko, Branthwaite, and Tarkowski, Dyche didn’t coach them to become solid as individuals or as a team, quite the opposite he didn’t want 2 of them in his starting lineup, Mykolenko and Branthwaite only got their chances because his favoured experienced players in Keane and Young played so shite he was making himself look a knob by keeping on selecting them. 
So no no credit from me on his defensive credentials they played and picked themselves against his better judgement. 
Tarkowski, Brainthwaite, Mykolenko and Pickford deserve all the praise and credit for our defensive performances, Pickford for making some of the best saves in the league to keep clean sheets, no coaching from Dyche, Tarkowski for always getting a foot in when needed, no coaching from Dyche, Brainthwaite for proving that youth can be a lot better than Dyche’s favourite Keane, by showing composure and determination in defence well above his years, no coaching from Dyche, Mykolenko the player Dyche said wasn’t ready for the PL shoved his words right down his throat and proved he was twice the player Young was who was Dyche’s favoured player for LB. 
Dyche got lucky that the 4 players I mentioned were already at the club he didn’t mould them they were all already good enough he just couldn’t see it. Is defensive line up in his mind was Pickford, Young, Keane, Tarkowski, and Coleman. 

very selective when considered against a whole seasons work. 

Manager tries things, they don't work out, he move things around as players develop to the coaching style etc - isn't that just management and coaching?

Myko has been playing his best football in a Everton shirt under Dyche - so whatever Myko needed to up his game in the PL, then Dyche has helped him get there. Great management or coaching. 

Dyche just got 'lucky' defensively - and the players just sorted ithemselves out defensivley on the pitch to become one of the top team defensively in the PL is utter unonsense.

If you truly don't beleive that Dyche et al with team set up and coaching has made this one of the tightest defenses in the PL, then the likes of Dyche simply have no chance.

You have made up your mind that you don't like him and so will pick at any fault you can - be is deserved or not.

Something is done well - but you put that down to luck and the players. Something done not so well, it the coaching or lack of it, management style, team selection and so on. 

There is plenty to pick at with Dyche, but defensive performances really isn't one of them, so by doing so you just come across as simply 'having it in for him'.

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, RuffRob said:

very selective when considered against a whole seasons work. 

Manager tries things, they don't work out, he move things around as players develop to the coaching style etc - isn't that just management and coaching?

Myko has been playing his best football in a Everton shirt under Dyche - so whatever Myko needed to up his game in the PL, then Dyche has helped him get there. Great management or coaching. 

Dyche just got 'lucky' defensively - and the players just sorted ithemselves out defensivley on the pitch to become one of the top team defensively in the PL is utter unonsense.

If you truly don't beleive that Dyche et al with team set up and coaching has made this one of the tightest defenses in the PL, then the likes of Dyche simply have no change.

You have made up your mind that you don't like him and so will pick at any fault you can - be is deserved or not.

Something is done well - but you put that down to luck and the players. Something done not so well, it the coaching or lack of it, management style, team selection and so on. 

There is plenty to pick at with Dyche, but defensive performances really isn't one of them, so by doing so you just come across as simply 'having it in for him'.

Dyche’s vision was Keane and Tarkowski pairing with Young on the left Coleman on the right, the most experienced players so he didn’t have to rely on inexperienced youth players what he couldn’t see in training was Young and Keane are poor, when asked about Mykolenko he was long way off from being ready as PL player, Dyche didn’t plan for Mykolenko to come into the team 4 weeks later and show him how a LB should really play against is favoured LB in Young, it was purely down to the 4-0 hammering by Villa that things changed, not a training ground situation or well thought out plan, just a reaction to his own fuck up. Your right I don’t like his brand of football, he’s poor at decision making he’s never proactive only reactive, and what I also don’t like is people pretending the 14 games without a win had nothing to do with him it was all purely down to the owners and the PL, yet when he doesn’t lose 7 in a row that’s all down to him and forget the fact it was more down to players abilities than his coaching, thing is Rob you want your cake and to eat when it comes to Dyche not his fault when we go on the worst run in our history, but all done to him when we put a good defensive display in ffs The man can do no wrong it would seem. 

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

Good luck. I'm going for a workshop on EU VAT post Brexit I a couple of weeks, can't wait...

You need more luck than me mate, sounds riveting

[Romey 1878]

26 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Dyche’s vision was Keane and Tarkowski pairing with Young on the left Coleman on the right, the most experienced players so he didn’t have to rely on inexperienced youth players what he couldn’t see in training was Young and Keane are poor, when asked about Mykolenko he was long way off from being ready as PL player, Dyche didn’t plan for Mykolenko to come into the team 4 weeks later and show him how a LB should really play against is favoured LB in Young, it was purely down to the 4-0 hammering by Villa that things changed, not a training ground situation or well thought out plan, just a reaction to his own fuck up. Your right I don’t like his brand of football, he’s poor at decision making he’s never proactive only reactive, and what I also don’t like is people pretending the 14 games without a win had nothing to do with him it was all purely down to the owners and the PL, yet when he doesn’t lose 7 in a row that’s all down to him and forget the fact it was more down to players abilities than his coaching, thing is Rob you want your cake and to eat when it comes to Dyche not his fault when we go on the worst run in our history, but all done to him when we put a good defensive display in ffs The man can do no wrong it would seem. 

I don't remember him saying Mykolenko wasn't ready as a PL player at the beginning of the season. I remember him having had surgery over the summer to fix an injury he'd had since arriving with us and therefore missing some pre-season football, meaning he was behind others and therefore wasn't in the starting 11.

Which is what he says here before the Villa game - https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sean-dyche-reveals-surprise-aston-27518731

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, MikeO said:

Because he's in charge?

Buck stops with him when things are going badly, but he gets no credit when things are going well? Seems a little blinkered to me, he's on a hiding to nothing.

That’s 100% right Mike I wouldn’t argue with that it’s always been that way, but on here the norm changed, he should have been sacked after 8 games without a win never mind 14, but the norm didn’t apply to him on here people were saying it’s not his fault you can’t blame him, then when he has a good run the same people crowing look how good he is. I try not to go through life with double standards but some on here have quadruple going on, and I’ll be honest because I don’t like his management style it’s becoming like a red rag to a bull for me, and I’m out to stamp it out I probably know I want be successful but boy I’m going to have fun trying

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I don't remember him saying Mykolenko wasn't ready as a PL player at the beginning of the season. I remember him having had surgery over the summer to fix an injury he'd had since arriving with us and therefore missing some pre-season football, meaning he was behind others and therefore wasn't in the starting 11.

Which is what he says here before the Villa game - https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sean-dyche-reveals-surprise-aston-27518731

He did say that then he said it about Patterson both times it was when asked about Young. 

[RuffRob]

29 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Dyche’s vision was Keane and Tarkowski pairing with Young on the left Coleman on the right, the most experienced players so he didn’t have to rely on inexperienced youth players what he couldn’t see in training was Young and Keane are poor, when asked about Mykolenko he was long way off from being ready as PL player, Dyche didn’t plan for Mykolenko to come into the team 4 weeks later and show him how a LB should really play against is favoured LB in Young, it was purely down to the 4-0 hammering by Villa that things changed, not a training ground situation or well thought out plan, just a reaction to his own fuck up. Your right I don’t like his brand of football, he’s poor at decision making he’s never proactive only reactive, and what I also don’t like is people pretending the 14 games without a win had nothing to do with him it was all purely down to the owners and the PL, yet when he doesn’t lose 7 in a row that’s all down to him and forget the fact it was more down to players abilities than his coaching, thing is Rob you want your cake and to eat when it comes to Dyche not his fault when we go on the worst run in our history, but all done to him when we put a good defensive display in ffs The man can do no wrong it would seem. 

I said he's not without fault and is nowhere near perfect, not one person on this forum is making him out to be the best thing since sliced bread or the greatest manager to grace the club, but what most people are doing is giving the bloke the fair degree of the credit he deserves for what he has managed to acheive at this sorry state of a club (at this time) this season. A few managers have shown its not easy getting mid table form out of this team or club recently, so to me he has steadied the footballing ship somewhat - and good for him and good for us for doing so. 

I am not doing cartwheels when we win a game or three on the bounce, but neither am I still pawing over a 14 game winless run. Nobodies 'pretending' the 14 games run has nothing to do with him. Everything has something to do with him, from not winning in 14 games on the run and losing 4-0 to Villa and 6-0 to Chelsea through to having one of the overall best defensive records in the league, convincingly beating Liverpool and winning 48 points. The expected ups and downs and highs and low of being a bang average club (which is being generouse of where this club currently is!!) 

If you can find anywhere on this forum where anybody has made out 'the man can do no wrong' it will suprise me. What I am reading is that most people are giving him a fair assessment of what has been acheived this season as a whole.

Most people are only pushing out particulaly 'positive' comments or arguements as an antidote to the very unbalanced views that comes Dyches way from yourself and a couple of other.

 

[Goodison Glory]

I'd argue that the defense performing well was not in spite of dyche...but more likely because of him. One of the things I don't like about Dyche is that he sets up not to lose. How many times have we complained about us facing shitty (on paper) teams at home and not going for it. 

We are also top 5 in most defensive categories (clean sheets, fouls against, offsides, interceptions etc)..you can't tell me that none of that is prepared for on the training ground.

My summary is:

1. Dyche should get credit for the winning streak and the defensive performance

2. He should carry the blame for the losing streak, regardless of external circumstances

3. At most clubs he probably should've been sacked for going so long without a win. Possibly our board gave him the benefit of the doubt or possibly we couldn't afford to change management staff again AND thought the 3 promoted clubs are so shite we will prob be okay.

[Hafnia]

16 hours ago, RuffRob said:

Dyche has been the ideal manager for where this clubs is at the moment us time.

Fortunately the vast majority of fans can see this and appreciate what he's managed to achieve this season.

Plenty to be picky about, his knockers can dwell on the 14 game winless run if they want to, but Dyche from the first kick of the season asked to be judged on the season as a whole rather over individual results or runs of results be they good or bad.

Made us one to the tightest defences in the league takes some doing, and it will obviously come at the expense of some of our offensive play. I am not expecting miracles in a single season and especially in a season like this one.

Thank fuck those in charge didn't shit the bed and sack him half a dozen games ago.

I am glad we have his steadiness this season and going in to next. as fuck know what that's going to bring us yet. 

 

"His knockers can focus on his 14 game winless streak if they want to......"   just the 14 games then? 

I suppose when you look disjointed, clueless in the attacking 3rd with questionable tactics with a team looking increasingly shot of confidence and you break Mike walkers long standing record then questions may just get asked. 
 

 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

...he should have been sacked after 8 games without a win never mind 14...

As I asked elsewhere, which manager do you think we could've realistically got hold of who'd have possibly got sixteen points out if the last twenty-one, won a derby and kept five consecutie clean sheets at home?

Nobody is dismissing the poor run (which was actually ten winless...or thirteen if you're not counting cup games, not fourteen by either measure), just giving credit where credit is most definitely due. Your "red rag to a bull" mindset is making you irrational mate

[Hafnia]

15 hours ago, StevO said:

Mykolenko was shite up until recently. I believe Dyche improved him. But established or not, he was crap.

 
McNeil has played almost all of his professional career under Dyche, from being a teenager. 

Patterson has played 20 premier league games out of about 32 at the point of his last injury, that’s a chance to show what you can do (as well as every day in training) and he was poor. 
 

How Branthwaite doesn’t meet your criteria of playing a young player is only going to baffle me. 
 

Actually, why am I even getting involved. I don’t care enough for this. 

I believe the question is about giving youth a chance. 

without getting into the weeds it's not about playing a 20+ year old lad who has been widely known in football circles as one of the best left sided centre halves. 

Dyche made the point in a press conference talking about player scouting that "there are no surprises out there" - nearly every club knows almost everything there is to know about players down to youth levels. 
 

in the desperate need to somehow argue that dyche gives youth a chance we are supposed to credit him with selecting a player who was one of psv's standout players last year and made RVN make him a priority signing. 
 

ok..... 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

He did say that then he said it about Patterson both times it was when asked about Young. 

Can you show me where he said it because I'd like to see it?

[Hafnia]

This thread has all the makings of a "let's protest against the board, it's scandalous how we've been run, we've not bought anyone this window........ hold on there's rumours we are trying to buy Wilfred zaha for £70m, call off the dogs"

a sprint finish at the end of the season doesn't erase the fact that we spent 4 months of it fearing this was the season we would go.

Dyche has not got me convinced, in normal circumstances he would be sacked from any club - let's not applaud the people who don't have the authority or means to sack a manager for not doing something they couldn't have done in the first place. 
 

for months he arrogantly continued to make baffling selections and decisions  that did not work. His tactics reeked of no plan B, teams worked out how to negate his tactics. He couldn't figure out how to score goals without a fit and functioning Doucoure. 
 

if we have to lose players like branthwaite and replace on the cheap then I fear relegation next season unless Dyche shows an ability to change this fluidly and not rely on finch farm crisis meetings which result in him wearing tracksuits and more than likely having to listen to people for once. 

 

[Palfy]

48 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

I said he's not without fault and is nowhere near perfect, not one person on this forum is making him out to be the best thing since sliced bread or the greatest manager to grace the club, but what most people are doing is giving the bloke the fair degree of the credit he deserves for what he has managed to acheive at this sorry state of a club (at this time) this season. A few managers have shown its not easy getting mid table form out of this team or club recently, so to me he has steadied the footballing ship somewhat - and good for him and good for us for doing so. 

I am not doing cartwheels when we win a game or three on the bounce, but neither am I still pawing over a 14 game winless run. Nobodies 'pretending' the 14 games run has nothing to do with him. Everything has something to do with him, from not winning in 14 games on the run and losing 4-0 to Villa and 6-0 to Chelsea through to having one of the overall best defensive records in the league, convincingly beating Liverpool and winning 48 points. The expected ups and downs and highs and low of being a bang average club (which is being generouse of where this club currently is!!) 

If you can find anywhere on this forum where anybody has made out 'the man can do no wrong' it will suprise me. What I am reading is that most people are giving him a fair assessment of what has been acheived this season as a whole.

Most people are only pushing out particulaly 'positive' comments or arguements as an antidote to the very unbalanced views that comes Dyches way from yourself and a couple of other.

 

My views are very balanced in my mind or do others that don’t agree with me now hold the rights to balanced opinions and views, when it comes to Dyche we are polls apart but please don’t try and tell me my opinions are less valid than yours, I’m not doing that to you so don’t do it to me, by all means tell me why you disagree with my points as I’m doing with others but don’t play the superiority card Rob your not the oracle mate you’re just the same as everyone one on here you have an opinion not the answer. 

[Hafnia]

12 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Can you show me where he said it because I'd like to see it?

He referred to him as not being a bona fide premier league player then chose Holgate ahead of him at right back and watched him get a red card vs palace.

had no option but to play him vs Brighton and watched him put mitoma in his arse pocket and give us width  and pace in a 5-1 win.

that was the springboard for Patterson - well it was supposed to be. 

 

 

[Romey 1878]

Just now, Hafnia said:

He referred to him as not being a bona fide premier league player then chose Holgate ahead of him at right back and watched him get a red card vs palace.

had no option but to play him vs Brighton and watched him put mitoma in his arse pocket and give us with and pace in a 5-1 win.

that was the springboard for Patterson - well it was supposed to be. 

 

 

Not sure why you're bringing Patterson into it when I'm asking him to show me where Dyche said it about Mykolenko .

[Palfy]

14 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Can you show me where he said it because I'd like to see it?

Goodison news run it in September 2023 an article by Paul Brown who spoke with Dyche, and Dyche confirmed the same in a video interview when asked why he preferred Young over Mykolenko. 

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Goodison news run it in September 2023 an article by Paul Brown who spoke with Dyche, and Dyche confirmed the same in a video interview when asked why he preferred Young over Mykolenko. 

This? https://www.goodisonnews.com/2023/09/09/vitalii-mykolenko-not-trusted-at-everton-by-sean-dyche-wont-play-him-despite-ashley-young-disappointment-journalist/

[Palfy]

37 minutes ago, MikeO said:

As I asked elsewhere, which manager do you think we could've realistically got hold of who'd have possibly got sixteen points out if the last twenty-one, won a derby and kept five consecutie clean sheets at home?

Nobody is dismissing the poor run (which was actually ten winless...or thirteen if you're not counting cup games, not fourteen by either measure), just giving credit where credit is most definitely due. Your "red rag to a bull" mindset is making you irrational mate

It’s not Mike it’s the double standards from most others that I’m pissed off with. 

[MikeO]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It’s not Mike it’s the double standards from most others that I’m pissed off with. 

Can you point to an example of what you consider to be double standards Palf? Not entirely sure what you mean.

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

This? https://www.goodisonnews.com/2023/09/09/vitalii-mykolenko-not-trusted-at-everton-by-sean-dyche-wont-play-him-despite-ashley-young-disappointment-journalist/

That’s one part but I can’t find the video it may have been in managers questions before a game.