Sean Dyche

[dunlopp9987]

34 minutes ago, StevO said:

If what we have done this season isn’t acceptable, what should we REALISTICALLY expect?

THANK YOU. THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SHOUTING ABOUT ALL SEASON AND SORRY FOR STILL SHOUTING ABOUT IT BUT IT SEEMS LIKE CERTAIN PEOPLE WHOSE NAMES RHYME WITH GALFY AND PAFNIA CAN'T QUITE FIGURE THIS OUT.

Edit: ok phewf I've calmed down now and turned the caps lock off. However, this has been my point all season. We had a torrid run without a win from end of January to early April, but we also had two terrific runs. And considering what a dumpster fire this season has been, "realistically, what should we have expected?" is the best question to ask.

[Romey 1878]

Without the drama of the points deductions he'd served up the exact season I was hoping for in the summer - a boring, mid-table, nothingness of a season.

[Quinn31]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Without the drama of the points deductions he'd served up the exact season I was hoping for in the summer - a boring, mid-table, nothingness of a season.

Without the points deduction drama and if the wins had been more evenly distributed throughout the season, woulda been fairly tolerable and a nice change from the last few years where we were actually just crap and could've dropped.

[Romey 1878]

9 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

Without the points deduction drama and if the wins had been more evenly distributed throughout the season, woulda been fairly tolerable and a nice change from the last few years where we were actually just crap and could've dropped.

I said similar to someone I was watching the Luton game with in that if those 14 games without winning had been spread throughout the season, rather than in one lump, they'd have been tolerated and probably wouldn't have even got a mention.

That's not me saying that that run was acceptable, it wasn't and it was a hard watch, but if we'd been less streaky there really wouldn't have been a problem. 

[dunlopp9987]

7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I said similar to someone I was watching the Luton game with in that if those 14 games without winning had been spread throughout the season, rather than in one lump, they'd have been tolerated and probably wouldn't have even got a mention.

That's not me saying that that run was acceptable, it wasn't and it was a hard watch, but if we'd been less streaky there really wouldn't have been a problem. 

Yeah it really has been a season of streaks unfortunately

[Wall Writer]

24 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Yeah it really has been a season of streaks unfortunately

Better than the streaks in my underpants I had in the last two seasons, that's for sure.

[Matt]

36 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Yeah it really has been a season of streaks unfortunately

2 positive ones Vs 1 longer poor one.

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Newty82 said:

Only one drip round here pal.

Don't be so hard on yourself mate, you ain't that bad. 

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

If what we have done this season isn’t acceptable, what should we REALISTICALLY expect?

no one is disputing that it's a case of "job done, that's a relief".....  maybe one or two are seeing it as far more than that and trying to rib others who haven't quite come to think of Everton as Wigan athletic. 
 

the reality is that I don't know of any clubs who have ever had to tolerate such an awful run of form aligned with shite performances without the manager getting sacked. 
 

what we are seeing is a team that still lacks cohesion, inadequate coaching in attacking phases and an appalling level of consistency. 
 

we move on and hope things get better without actually trusting that will be the case. 

[MikeO]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

the reality is that I don't know of any clubs who have ever had to tolerate such an awful run of form aligned with shite performances without the manager getting sacked. 

Good job we didn't sack him though eh? 5-1-1 record since we/he stopped the rot, five home wins on the bounce without conceding a goal; I don't think there are many managers who we could've got that could've achieved that.

Kudos to the interim board for keeping the faith, and not taking the easy option.

[AlbanyNYToffee]

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

no one is disputing that it's a case of "job done, that's a relief".....  maybe one or two are seeing it as far more than that and trying to rib others who haven't quite come to think of Everton as Wigan athletic. 
 

the reality is that I don't know of any clubs who have ever had to tolerate such an awful run of form aligned with shite performances without the manager getting sacked. 
 

what we are seeing is a team that still lacks cohesion, inadequate coaching in attacking phases and an appalling level of consistency. 
 

we move on and hope things get better without actually trusting that will be the case. 

The reality is we’re a lot closer to being Wigan than we are Villa/Brighton. We’re only inconsistent because we’re finally capable of being better than shit at all times like we were under Rafa and Frank (most of the time). It’s been so refreshing to see us be shit only some of the time. We lack cohesion because our squad is threadbare and often injured. We lack attacking threat because our strikers can’t score goals (until DCL very recently) and our wingers are shit or slow, sometimes both. Our attacking mid is Doucoure for christs sake. Run his bollocks off but can’t pick a pass or shoot worth a damn. 
 

You can’t overcome dreadful ownership. We’ve been hanging on by a thread for 3 years now. Our luck is going to run out if we don’t fix by the start of next season. Dyche gets another year at least. 

[Cornish Steve]

7 hours ago, Hafnia said:

no one is disputing that it's a case of "job done, that's a relief".....  maybe one or two are seeing it as far more than that and trying to rib others who haven't quite come to think of Everton as Wigan athletic. 
 

the reality is that I don't know of any clubs who have ever had to tolerate such an awful run of form aligned with shite performances without the manager getting sacked. 
 

what we are seeing is a team that still lacks cohesion, inadequate coaching in attacking phases and an appalling level of consistency. 
 

we move on and hope things get better without actually trusting that will be the case. 

If we erase the Chelsea match, we have the best defensive record in the league. With DC-L getting back to form and the promise of Chermiti next season, we may begin to score more goals. What's really lacking is our midfield, and that should be the focus of our summer signings.

(If only we'd managed to sign Kudus.)

[Palfy]

We stayed up which is all that really matters after the season of deductions, so as fans and a club we should be grateful for that. 
But if you analyse the season as a whole instead of just the last 7 games of which we played 5 of the bottom teams and 3 who were relegated, bar Liverpool there was no one of note who we shouldn’t have expected to beat on any day or any other season. 
But let’s not dismiss the fact that the we went 14 games without a win if we are going to hold up the last 7 as an achievement. 
For me I’m not pleased with Dyche as our manager he has consistently shown in game time his lack of ability to be proactive to what’s happening in game time and has shown he is only capable of being reactive which basically anyone can be, what concerns me is that he has taken us back to football at its most simplest form for 18 month's which I accept was needed for his first 6 months of last season, but this season we should have shown a lot more in the creativity stakes of finding a way to dominate possession with ball to feet passing and good movement instead of the constant long ball tactics which may work to an extent against the lesser teams but has little effect against the better teams, so my problem with Dyche is I cannot see a time with him when we become the team that has found a different style or way to be competitive with the better teams and actually make progress towards being a top 6 or 7 team, I feel we will always be a team flirting within the bottom 10-11 in the league. We haven’t just stayed up because of him I look at 4 key players that saved his and our season from being a complete disaster and that is Pickford, Branthwaite, Mykolenko, and Tarkowski, if you would have taken anyone of them out the team for the whole of the season we would have gone down, he will say it was his coaching that made them the force in defence that they were as the self proclaimed Messiah, I would say he got very lucky that they were at the club before he got here. 
He can definitely talk the talk but when are we to see him walk the walk, I would be reluctant to give the first 6 months of next season, but because of ownership issues he is definitely going to be here, so let’s see if we see an improvement on last season in the first 6 months of next season, he will say he has nothing to prove I would say he has everything to prove.  

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

We stayed up which is all that really matters after the season of deductions, so as fans and a club we should be grateful for that. 
But if you analyse the season as a whole instead of just the last 7 games of which we played 5 of the bottom teams and 3 who were relegated, bar Liverpool there was no one of note who we shouldn’t have expected to beat on any day or any other season. 
But let’s not dismiss the fact that the we went 14 games without a win if we are going to hold up the last 7 as an achievement. 
For me I’m not pleased with Dyche as our manager he has consistently shown in game time his lack of ability to be proactive to what’s happening in game time and has shown he is only capable of being reactive which basically anyone can be, what concerns me is that he has taken us back to football at its most simplest form for 18 month's which I accept was needed for his first 6 months of last season, but this season we should have shown a lot more in the creativity stakes of finding a way to dominate possession with ball to feet passing and good movement instead of the constant long ball tactics which may work to an extent against the lesser teams but has little effect against the better teams, so my problem with Dyche is I cannot see a time with him when we become the team that has found a different style or way to be competitive with the better teams and actually make progress towards being a top 6 or 7 team, I feel we will always be a team flirting within the bottom 10-11 in the league. We haven’t just stayed up because of him I look at 4 key players that saved his and our season from being a complete disaster and that is Pickford, Branthwaite, Mykolenko, and Tarkowski, if you would have taken anyone of them out the team for the whole of the season we would have gone down, he will say it was his coaching that made them the force in defence that they were as the self proclaimed Messiah, I would say he got very lucky that they were at the club before he got here. 
He can definitely talk the talk but when are we to see him walk the walk, I would be reluctant to give the first 6 months of next season, but because of ownership issues he is definitely going to be here, so let’s see if we see an improvement on last season in the first 6 months of next season, he will say he has nothing to prove I would say he has everything to prove.  

Theres so many what the fuck are you talking about... I go get coffee first.

[Goodison Glory]

3 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

If we erase the Chelsea match, we have the best defensive record in the league. With DC-L getting back to form and the promise of Chermiti next season, we may begin to score more goals. What's really lacking is our midfield, and that should be the focus of our summer signings.

(If only we'd managed to sign Kudus.)

what is the best defence based on ? clean sheets (Arsenal were best), Goals Conceded (think we were 4th best even without Chelsea goals)

[Sev]

This is my personal view on Dyche's perfomance for season 23/24. And what I think could happen for season 24/25.

Overall, and I really mean overall despite a much too long run without wins and piss poor football, he did what was expected of him; keeping us in top flight and trying to create some sort of stability. More on that later. Beating The Shite was a much welcomed bonus.

Noone is going to claim that Dyche is a top manager, not even a ginger Guardiola, dunlopp, you twat. Dyche, to me, did what he was able to do and I thank him and the players for that. God forbid we should play in The Championship.
I think it's quite clear that we still have stability issues, but there will always be things that needs adjusting etc. Thing is though, our stability issues are a bit more than just the players, coaches and the manager getting it right. It's the whole club and it goes back much further than some of you are willing to admit. Rotten boardmembers, questionable decisions and a disillusioned owner who should never have been one in the first place. Things that have hurt our club and hearts and that we now pay and have paid for.

Stability is often a somewhat slow process because other factors play in, and then there are the things you just can't control as a manager or player like point deductions and uncertainty about availible funds to strengthen the squad. And on top on that there's the whole 777 Partners charade. Can only say I was very pleased not to see Josh Wander's stupid face and baseball cap when we played (and won) Sheff. Utd.
Fuck me, we've been through a lot and it's not over yet.

The big question for season 24/25 is ownership and how much we're able/allowed to spend on transfers and contracts. If we're able to get a solid owner I think we should thank Dyche for his work and look for another manager. If we're not then I think we should keep Dyche unless there are better options till things have changed for the better and that we can afford it.

I'm no fan of Dyche-ball when you don't have the team for it and sometimes it really hurts me to see how ugly and boring we can be because of that. 40 points is really not good, 48 points is under the circumstances ok. What a weird season where 30 points would've been enough, eh. Thank some god it's over.

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, MikeO said:

Good job we didn't sack him though eh? 5-1-1 record since we/he stopped the rot, five home wins on the bounce without conceding a goal; I don't think there are many managers who we could've got that could've achieved that.

Kudos to the interim board for keeping the faith, and not taking the easy option.

I don't necessarily think they kept the faith - there was no other option other than to bring in Baines 

[Hafnia]

4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

If we erase the Chelsea match, we have the best defensive record in the league. With DC-L getting back to form and the promise of Chermiti next season, we may begin to score more goals. What's really lacking is our midfield, and that should be the focus of our summer signings.

(If only we'd managed to sign Kudus.)

So what you are saying is that my assertion that dyches ability to set up a team to defend whilst not having any other credible facets of play is valid? 
 

yes we can defend which I believe is massively in part to having the 2nd best centre half in the league after saliba.  Think back to last season without branthwaite.... for me without branthwaite we go down. 
 

compare our players to other teams midtable to bottom 3.  We have more quality than people see. 

[Goodison Glory]

29 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

So what you are saying is that my assertion that dyches ability to set up a team to defend whilst not having any other credible facets of play is valid? 
 

yes we can defend which I believe is massively in part to having the 2nd best centre half in the league after saliba.  Think back to last season without branthwaite.... for me without branthwaite we go down. 
 

compare our players to other teams midtable to bottom 3.  We have more quality than people see. 

Personally I'd rank Micky Van Der Ven (sp) and Ruben Dias higher.  Id reluctantly say VVD is still better also. 

I'd argue branth is more important to us than the others are to their teams tho. 

I hope we keep him for years to come!

[patto]

16 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said:

Personally I'd rank Micky Van Der Ven (sp) and Ruben Dias higher.  Id reluctantly say VVD is still better also. 

I'd argue branth is more important to us than the others are to their teams tho. 

I hope we keep him for years to come!

I agree with Hafnia no Branthwaite and we would have gone down. 
but unfortunately he won’t be staying. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Goodison Glory said:

Personally I'd rank Micky Van Der Ven (sp) and Ruben Dias higher.  Id reluctantly say VVD is still better also. 

I'd argue branth is more important to us than the others are to their teams tho. 

I hope we keep him for years to come!

Put it this way - it's debatable and you would get many managers who would choose branthwaite over any of them when you consider his potential, current levels and his 2 amazing feet which has him as a left sided centre half. 
 

Branthwaite has made tarkowski up his game .  Quality quality player who will be a very very regrettable sale. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, patto said:

I agree with Hafnia no Branthwaite and we would have gone down. 
but unfortunately he won’t be staying. 

Well who knows. The rest isn't aimed at you specifically, it's something I keep hearing and I don't get it. It's a meaningless statement really, reality is he was in our defence. Might as well say if we'd had Maldini we would've been fine too.

Fact is he was part of the defence, Dyche did play him ahead of Keane despite him having an apparent aversion to playing youth and he has contributed to one of the best defences in the league. That's not opinion, that's just what happened, so why speculate otherwise?

The other fact is he signed a new long term contract so if he is to go, he's going to go for huge money. I'm not convinced we'll sell him, I'm more wondering if we take the points hit seeings though we've seen the issues around that being a lot less important than finishing higher up. The points have also cost us £12m in lost position money, why would we sell for a lot less than his value if £12m is the fine?

[patto]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Well who knows. The rest isn't aimed at you specifically, it's something I keep hearing and I don't get it. It's a meaningless statement really, reality is he was in our defence. Might as well say if we'd had Maldini we would've been fine too.

Fact is he was part of the defence, Dyche did play him ahead of Keane despite him having an apparent aversion to playing youth and he has contributed to one of the best defences in the league. That's not opinion, that's just what happened, so why speculate otherwise?

The other fact is he signed a new long term contract so if he is to go, he's going to go for huge money. I'm not convinced we'll sell him, I'm more wondering if we take the points hit seeings though we've seen the issues around that being a lot less important than finishing higher up. The points have also cost us £12m in lost position money, why would we sell for a lot less than his value if £12m is the fine?

I’d love him to stay let’s just wait and see. 

[Hafnia]

21 minutes ago, Matt said:

Well who knows. The rest isn't aimed at you specifically, it's something I keep hearing and I don't get it. It's a meaningless statement really, reality is he was in our defence. Might as well say if we'd had Maldini we would've been fine too.

Fact is he was part of the defence, Dyche did play him ahead of Keane despite him having an apparent aversion to playing youth and he has contributed to one of the best defences in the league. That's not opinion, that's just what happened, so why speculate otherwise?

The other fact is he signed a new long term contract so if he is to go, he's going to go for huge money. I'm not convinced we'll sell him, I'm more wondering if we take the points hit seeings though we've seen the issues around that being a lot less important than finishing higher up. The points have also cost us £12m in lost position money, why would we sell for a lot less than his value if £12m is the fine?

He does have an aversion to youth Matt. Check any Burnley forum and it was an age old niggle with their fans.

playing a 6ft 5 rolls Royce engined two footed specimen who can pass a ball, jump, and read the game like a 30 year old doesn't make you a talent spotter - it just means you shouldn't be banished from the game completely for being a complete ball bag for mishandling a generational talent. 
 

I liked branthwaite from the get go, the same as I do with chermitti. Both will go very far in the game. Perfect mix of athleticism and football ability without an obvious dickhead trait that we see too often. 

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

He does have an aversion to youth Matt. Check any Burnley forum and it was an age old niggle with their fans.

playing a 6ft 5 rolls Royce engined two footed specimen who can pass a ball, jump, and read the game like a 30 year old doesn't make you a talent spotter - it just means you shouldn't be banished from the game completely for being a complete ball bag for mishandling a generational talent. 
 

I liked branthwaite from the get go, the same as I do with chermitti. Both will go very far in the game. Perfect mix of athleticism and football ability without an obvious dickhead trait that we see too often. 

I couldn't care less about Burnley fans have to say to be honest. Different time, team, circumstances; not remotely relevant. Not meaning to be rude to antagonistic, it's just not comparable. 

Not sure what the 2nd paragraph is meant to convey, but not sure anyone has said Dyche is a talent spotter. The point I was making was this whole "he doesn't play youth, only plays favourites" things just isn't always true. For example, he could've played Keane all season if he was that set in his ways. Except he isn't and so he hasn't. 

Branthwaite should be waiting for the Barca call. Chermiti has shown a lot of promise and I'm excited but too early to tell for me.

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

what is the best defence based on ? clean sheets (Arsenal were best), Goals Conceded (think we were 4th best even without Chelsea goals)

I was quoting a commentator from yesterday's match and trusted they had the data to back it up. With all the clean sheets we've kept, I can certainly believe it.

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

I couldn't care less about Burnley fans have to say to be honest. Different time, team, circumstances; not remotely relevant. Not meaning to be rude to antagonistic, it's just not comparable. 

Not sure what the 2nd paragraph is meant to convey, but not sure anyone has said Dyche is a talent spotter. The point I was making was this whole "he doesn't play youth, only plays favourites" things just isn't always true. For example, he could've played Keane all season if he was that set in his ways. Except he isn't and so he hasn't. 

Branthwaite should be waiting for the Barca call. Chermiti has shown a lot of promise and I'm excited but too early to tell for me.

So he doesn't have an aversion to youth then no?  Tell me how? Not being antagonistic but I do not see how he couldn't have used dobbin when we have absolutely no pace in the side. I don't see how Patterson wasn't used when we were using centre halves as full backs. 
 

I don't understand how chermitti had to wait till we had both strikers out to get more than a 5 minute cameo. Bear in mind we had games that were absolutely over at half time and youth did not get a chance. 
 

He could have been playing Michael Keane ahead of branthwaite ??!  no way is that ever a possibility unless Branthwaite decides to run at half pace, throw his hands out at opponents crosses, passes to their players.  That's one ridiculous shout - there's being stuck in your way and having a favourite, what you are suggesting would be like playing Neal Maupay ahead of 18 year old Wayne Rooney. 

[MikeO]

5 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

So he doesn't have an aversion to youth then no?  Tell me how?

There's no way to prove a negative. 

[Hafnia]

10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

There's no way to prove a negative. 

If you have young players available to play when senior players are unavailable yet you play other players out of position having already proven that they are sub standard at the role then I think there is a big indication that he has an aversion. 
 

aversion is a disinclination.... a preference to avoiding something.   If you put sprouts on your plate - yet you don't eat them, does it prove you don't like them? Not really cos you put them on your plate, but if they are still on your plate after you finish and you claim you are still hungry then questions will be asked. 
 

Dobbin has often looked like the sprout left on dyches roast dinner as he goes and regurgitates half digested Ashley young up for another chew. 
 

I've just thought - he probably does that. 

[dunlopp9987]

6 hours ago, Sev said:

This is my personal view on Dyche's perfomance for season 23/24. And what I think could happen for season 24/25.

Overall, and I really mean overall despite a much too long run without wins and piss poor football, he did what was expected of him; keeping us in top flight and trying to create some sort of stability. More on that later. Beating The Shite was a much welcomed bonus.

Noone is going to claim that Dyche is a top manager, not even a ginger Guardiola, dunlopp, you twat. Dyche, to me, did what he was able to do and I thank him and the players for that. God forbid we should play in The Championship.
I think it's quite clear that we still have stability issues, but there will always be things that needs adjusting etc. Thing is though, our stability issues are a bit more than just the players, coaches and the manager getting it right. It's the whole club and it goes back much further than some of you are willing to admit. Rotten boardmembers, questionable decisions and a disillusioned owner who should never have been one in the first place. Things that have hurt our club and hearts and that we now pay and have paid for.

Stability is often a somewhat slow process because other factors play in, and then there are the things you just can't control as a manager or player like point deductions and uncertainty about availible funds to strengthen the squad. And on top on that there's the whole 777 Partners charade. Can only say I was very pleased not to see Josh Wander's stupid face and baseball cap when we played (and won) Sheff. Utd.
Fuck me, we've been through a lot and it's not over yet.

The big question for season 24/25 is ownership and how much we're able/allowed to spend on transfers and contracts. If we're able to get a solid owner I think we should thank Dyche for his work and look for another manager. If we're not then I think we should keep Dyche unless there are better options till things have changed for the better and that we can afford it.

I'm no fan of Dyche-ball when you don't have the team for it and sometimes it really hurts me to see how ugly and boring we can be because of that. 40 points is really not good, 48 points is under the circumstances ok. What a weird season where 30 points would've been enough, eh. Thank some god it's over.

It's from Roger Bennett, you twat