Steve_E Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I don't see how "potential" costs the same as an established England international. Twenty-eight's no age for a center-back. So what is Rodwell worth according to you? Youth and potential costs money. It's as simple as that. If we could get £18mil I'd snap their hands off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Even if we do manage to get, say £18 mill for him then there is no way on earth Bill will let Moyes have all the money. The books need to be balanced so that it looks good for any possible take over. So there will be only around £10 mill for the manager and he wont blow it on just one signing. Two £5 mill players is what you will get, and £5 mill players they will be and so yet again we dilute our squad with lesser players than we already have. Sign of the times I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 So what is Rodwell worth according to you? Youth and potential costs money. It's as simple as that. Rodwell is worth more than Jones because he has more potential..£25m maybe? Of course youth/potential costs but established internationals at the peak of their career should cost considerably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Listen the lad has just turned 28 which probably gives him six years at the top injuries permitting.He is better than anything the top four has apart from Vidic in my opinion and if Smalling, Jones and Cahill have been bought or been quoted at ten mill plus to even consider an offer it has to be serious and that has to be £20 mill. Even then i'd say no. He is a blue and one player we cant get rid of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 But if the commodity you want buy is worth 25 it's not common sense it's a piss-take. Using the used car analogy (as elsewhere on the site) if I've got a 2002 Porsche 911 turbo with a book price of £25,000 and someone offers me £10,000 I'm going to laugh in their face, as I will at £15,000. At £20,000 I might enter serious negotiations. Buy low sell high for sure but don't insult the people you want to do business with. Is your Porsche that old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) With £18m it all depends what Moyes feels he needs to build on. It certainly will get us N'Zogbia and perhaps a decent defender in as a replacement. I don't understand why people feel £18m is a bad deal. I understand the argument that in today's ever-escalating market Jagielka is easily worth more, but as good as he is, the price is just about acceptable. Personally I'd say £20m is fair but maybe they could negotiate add-ons... My view is someone like Jagielka is as valuable to us as Jones was to Blackburn. Blackburn scraped their way out of relegation, and one of the few hopes for the season ahead, nay the future in general, was their young, talented prospect who could lead their back line. Blackburn have a squad of at best, average players barring 2 or 3 who shine mainly because the rest are so poor, Jones being one of those shining last season. So given his age and importance to the club £18m in the modern footballing age is an understandable price. For us, whilst Jags is important, is he as important as Distin was last season? Or Neville? Two players who proved last season that there are some players you can't put a price on, simply because it wouldn't accurately reflect what they give to the club. Nobody, apart from Old 'Arry, would bid for Neville or Distin because their not worth more than 5 or 6 mil between them in today's market, but to us there worth £20 million each in terms of their dedication and spirit. However players like Rodwell, Baines and Jagielka are different because they still have their best years ahead of them. All three could be involved in the euros and the world cup, and all three probably would love to play champions league football and win trophies; and while I'm sure all three want to do that wearing an Everton shirt, if someone gives us enough money to replace them and buy another 2 or maybe 3 signings that could add to the team, can we really turn it down? Distin and Heitinga combined cost £11m, we could spend that on N'Zogbia and get another CB for £7m, with that we could probably buy someone like Onohuaha,or maybe Hangeland. We have to sell to buy, losing Lescott didn't make us capsize even though we only bought one good player from that money in Distin. If Arsenal give the right amount, I'd happily take it. Edited July 22, 2011 by The Regulator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftaylor Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I don't understand why people feel £18m is a bad deal. Me neither, Nobody else has come knocking for Jags. He turns 29 2 games into the season- hes not blessed with greater physical attributes (like dustbin) so I cant see him being at the top of his game past 32 so thats 4 years of his prime and his value is pretty much gone after that. We have yet to see the pre injury jags return to form- that player at age 27 was worth 25m+ but he is 2 years older with a serious injury on the odometer and has yet to return to form. Isn't it a TT consensus that Distin was the better CB for us last year, for a team that allowed a fair number of goals? At 18m Wenger will turn to other options. Wenger offered 10 we countered with 20- I think the most we can and ever will get is 15 with a lower fee probably being more realistic if a deal is to be made. You take that and by the younger N'Zogbia who fits exactly what we need- creativity, width, and pace and possible sell on value and still have some change in hand. We have nobody coming through the ranks as a winger other than Seamus and he isnt even a natural winger while we have duffy and possibly mustafi at CB in the future with Yobo returning on loan for the short term as cover for Johnny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Me neither, Nobody else has come knocking for Jags. He turns 29 2 games into the season- hes not blessed with greater physical attributes (like dustbin) so I cant see him being at the top of his game past 32 so thats 4 years of his prime and his value is pretty much gone after that. We have yet to see the pre injury jags return to form- that player at age 27 was worth 25m+ but he is 2 years older with a serious injury on the odometer and has yet to return to form. Isn't it a TT consensus that Distin was the better CB for us last year, for a team that allowed a fair number of goals? At 18m Wenger will turn to other options. Wenger offered 10 we countered with 20- I think the most we can and ever will get is 15 with a lower fee probably being more realistic if a deal is to be made. You take that and by the younger N'Zogbia who fits exactly what we need- creativity, width, and pace and possible sell on value and still have some change in hand. We have nobody coming through the ranks as a winger other than Seamus and he isnt even a natural winger while we have duffy and possibly mustafi at CB in the future with Yobo returning on loan for the short term as cover for Johnny. Isnt Maggie a left sided winger with pace? And another thing nobody has taken into account will Jags want to uproot and move to London? Hes settled up here and comes from the area and Arsenal are losing players left right and centre! Edited July 22, 2011 by smeghead1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftaylor Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Isnt Maggie a left sided winger with pace? And another thing nobody has taken into account will Jags want to uproot and move to London? Hes settled up here and comes from the area and Arsenal are losing players left right and centre! How did I forget Maggie!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAJUSTIN Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 If you can get 15 million sell you will never get another chance. With his size and athletic ability he may only have 2 more good years. You cant live of hard work and positioning forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Me neither, Nobody else has come knocking for Jags. He turns 29 2 games into the season- hes not blessed with greater physical attributes (like dustbin) so I cant see him being at the top of his game past 32 so thats 4 years of his prime and his value is pretty much gone after that. We have yet to see the pre injury jags return to form- that player at age 27 was worth 25m+ but he is 2 years older with a serious injury on the odometer and has yet to return to form. Isn't it a TT consensus that Distin was the better CB for us last year, for a team that allowed a fair number of goals? At 18m Wenger will turn to other options. Wenger offered 10 we countered with 20- I think the most we can and ever will get is 15 with a lower fee probably being more realistic if a deal is to be made. You take that and by the younger N'Zogbia who fits exactly what we need- creativity, width, and pace and possible sell on value and still have some change in hand. We have nobody coming through the ranks as a winger other than Seamus and he isnt even a natural winger while we have duffy and possibly mustafi at CB in the future with Yobo returning on loan for the short term as cover for Johnny. Jags is the one true defender we have in the club, the amount of last ditch, put body in the way of shot blockages he does is unreal. Hansen did a piece on him and couldn't speak highly enough of him. Physical attributes he is up there, quicker than most, strong, excellent in the air. That said, at 28 he has his 4 peak years ahead of him and it does remain to be seen how the injury affects him in the long run. If we get offered £20m plus and we have succession plannIng sorted then ok. I want to know where Duffy, mustafi, and dier are at to be truly comfortable. Distin is near the end of his career. Heatinga is one interview away from selling himself. So need to be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peoman7 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Jags is the one true defender we have in the club, the amount of last ditch, put body in the way of shot blockages he does is unreal. Hansen did a piece on him and couldn't speak highly enough of him. Physical attributes he is up there, quicker than most, strong, excellent in the air. That said, at 28 he has his 4 peak years ahead of him and it does remain to be seen how the injury affects him in the long run. If we get offered £20m plus and we have succession plannIng sorted then ok. I want to know where Duffy, mustafi, and dier are at to be truly comfortable. Distin is near the end of his career. Heatinga is one interview away from selling himself. So need to be careful. Absolutely spot on! Jonny has openly said he wants european football so if a offer come in for him he would cry his way tevez esq out the club. Jags has not once gave an indication he wants to leave even with previous arsenal offers, this lad is a true defender, i know we need the money but 10 million is a scandle. True Distin had the best season of his career last year but he is nearing the end of his career and to say we could throw duffy or mustafi in now would be suicicdal, i would like to see these lads get a few games but not at the expense of one of the top 4 english centre halfs. 20 million and he has gone, no matter if moyes wnats to keep him, Bk will sell and its a shame we have to run our club like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Jags is the one true defender we have in the club, the amount of last ditch, put body in the way of shot blockages he does is unreal. Hansen did a piece on him and couldn't speak highly enough of him. Physical attributes he is up there, quicker than most, strong, excellent in the air. That said, at 28 he has his 4 peak years ahead of him and it does remain to be seen how the injury affects him in the long run. If we get offered £20m plus and we have succession plannIng sorted then ok. I want to know where Duffy, mustafi, and dier are at to be truly comfortable. Distin is near the end of his career. Heatinga is one interview away from selling himself. So need to be careful. Bloody hell, find myself agreeing with every word! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Jags is the one true defender we have in the club, the amount of last ditch, put body in the way of shot blockages he does is unreal. Hansen did a piece on him and couldn't speak highly enough of him. Physical attributes he is up there, quicker than most, strong, excellent in the air. That said, at 28 he has his 4 peak years ahead of him and it does remain to be seen how the injury affects him in the long run. If we get offered £20m plus and we have succession plannIng sorted then ok. I want to know where Duffy, mustafi, and dier are at to be truly comfortable. Distin is near the end of his career. Heatinga is one interview away from selling himself. So need to be careful. Don't agree. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1377417/Martin-Keown-Why-Vincent-Kompany-best-defender-Premier-League.html According to that article Sylvain Distin blocked the most shots in the entire league (up to that point). Jagielka isn't in the top 4, but he probably only blocks shots that were going in otherwise, right? His physical attributes are clearly lacking. He's got mediocre pace (Distin is 33 and still a lot quicker) and he looks like a school boy (including thin mustache) when compared to Vidic or Kompany. We'll do just as good with Distin and Heitinga. Edited July 22, 2011 by Steve_E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) you must be watchin a different player if you say he has mediocre pace..he outpaced jarvis 2 or 3 times i remember it happenin and jarvis is no slouch..he also did it many times to torres who again is not a slow guy..not as quick as distin i don't think but certainly not slow..as for blocked shots i think hafnia was suggesting he does the last ditch ones when no one else is there almost sweeper like..distin just blocks edge of area shots cos he takes up half the area also agree with everything hafnia said..if duffy, mustafi and dier would be ready to step up in 1 or 2 years time when distin is gone then i'd sell for 20mill plus and go with johnny and distin and use the young lads as cover..that 20mill provided moyes gets most of it could do a hell of a lot for this team Edited July 22, 2011 by marcopaulo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I'm in a minority but I think Heitinga is the best CB at the club so I'd actually sell Jags if a proper bid came in for him. I'd rather we sold Distin but he's just not going to command the type of fee we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I dont think people in here appreciate just what it is that Jags brings to the table for Everton He is the lynchpin of our defence. If you watch him during the game he is the one who is always doing the shouting and the organising. He marshalls the back four. Even if he is not on top of his own game he is the one that pulls the strings. It is no coincidence that Lescotts form has dipped since we sold him and its no coincidence that Distin looks much beeter alongside Jags. Most CB get better with age and Jags is not exactly blessed with pace anyway. His best attribute is his reading of the game and his positional sense so there is no reason why he cant go on for years at the top. IMO we should be looking for at least £25M before we even think about it and even then I would be gutted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 couldnt agree more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Everton-could-sell-Jack-Rodwell-fund-move-Charles-N-Zogbia-but-clinging-onto-Arsenal-target-Phil-Jagielka-article774445.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAJUSTIN Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) What happened to the 25 million he used to be worth. Sir Alex is a cheap ass. Edited July 23, 2011 by USAJUSTIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexKing Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 What happened to the 25 million he used to be worth. Sir Alex is a cheap ass. That happens when youngsters dont progress. He still has a lot of potential, but hes not as hot name than he was season earlier. Injury or not, he werent even close of that delightful last season he was earlier. Hopefully if he stays, he will be better again. Now when Mikel injured, hes gettin games rightaway. And for the topic, im not a fan of losin Jags, but if the offer raises somewhere 17,5-18€ or 15 and bendtner i think we might have to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 That happens when youngsters dont progress. He still has a lot of potential, but hes not as hot name than he was season earlier. Injury or not, he werent even close of that delightful last season he was earlier. Hopefully if he stays, he will be better again. Now when Mikel injured, hes gettin games rightaway. And for the topic, im not a fan of losin Jags, but if the offer raises somewhere 17,5-18€ or 15 and bendtner i think we might have to sell. keep that useless piece of knob cheese out of it and away from a blue shirt. Just the thought makes me so angry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 And for the topic, im not a fan of losin Jags, but if the offer raises somewhere 17,5-18€ or 15 and bendtner i think we might have to sell. Arsenal giving £15m and a player they rate at £8m is quite a jump from their £10m opening bid!!! Anyway back in the real world... As much as love Jags, part of me agrees with Romey - think back to Distin/Heits partnership at the end of 2009-10 season - strongest we've looked in a long time. I am surprised Arse haven't bid £10m for Jonny as they'd probably get him. A centre back pairing of Heitinga/Vermalen would be very good/ among the best in prem in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 If the right money comes in to buy nzog a striker and maybe an average centre half to cover I'd be happy to let him go. Maybe nzog, rodellega and keep yobo as back up if we could get another player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 shame that yobo is a bit thick at times cos his physical attributes are amongst the best in the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 He is more dozy than thick, yeah he's lacks concentration sometimes, but he can still do a job and I would rather give Duffy a chance tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I dont think people in here appreciate just what it is that Jags brings to the table for Everton He is the lynchpin of our defence. If you watch him during the game he is the one who is always doing the shouting and the organising. He marshalls the back four. Even if he is not on top of his own game he is the one that pulls the strings. It is no coincidence that Lescotts form has dipped since we sold him and its no coincidence that Distin looks much beeter alongside Jags. Most CB get better with age and Jags is not exactly blessed with pace anyway. His best attribute is his reading of the game and his positional sense so there is no reason why he cant go on for years at the top. IMO we should be looking for at least £25M before we even think about it and even then I would be gutted I agree with this apart from the fact Jags is pretty rapid! I would think he is the quickest of the CB's, and certainly has the best acceleration. I am actually very surprised to see so many people on here knocking Jags. He is our best defender, and he is a proper defender. I rate Heitinga highly as well, but Jagielka will do all the dirty stuff like a proper English CB should. I would look into a Jags/Heits partnership. It might not have the height, but they have both dominated the biggest and strongest Strikers (Heitinga has had Drogba in his pocket every time they have played against each other, and Jags dealt with Crouchs height easily). They both read the game supremely, they both lead by example, and it will be a great combo of grit and composure. Distin has been solid for us, but he is always prone to a gaffe and seems to struggle against clever and 'tricky' players. Berbatov has the beating of him everytime they play each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 I agree with this apart from the fact Jags is pretty rapid! I would think he is the quickest of the CB's, and certainly has the best acceleration. You think Jagielka has got more pace than Distin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 You think Jagielka has got more pace than Distin? And Yobo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 yobo is defo the fastest cb we have..possibly the fastest player at the club..jags isn't slow and but i don't think he is as fast as distin..less prone to a mistake though if you ask me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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