England

[Romey 1878]

Someone needs to sit the fool down and say "play Rooney up front, or not at all."

 

It's fucking simple.

[MikeO]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27880311

[EFC-Paul]

I can understand him not being as effective on the left but this is a lad who's touted as being world class by many experts also said to be our best player yet can't handle playing on the left hand side of a three pronged attack he's not playing as a winger as such as people constantly insinuate....

 

Why are we so insistent on trying to accommodate players who hardly deliver it's an age old problem for us, people are quick to forget he's played in his preferred position in past tournaments and failed to deliver for me he simply can not cut it on the big stage at international level.

 

I'd rather drop him and start with Barkley or Chamberlain on the left which would be more affective and we don't change the shape of a side that looked threatening to accommodate a player that's failed to score at a world cup finals, it's to risky with so few games to change things up all in hope he "finally" comes good.

Edited June 18, 2014 by EFC-Paul

[NyarkosLeftToe]

Was listening to Talksport this morning and they made a good point (For a change) they named all the players who had scored more goals for England than Rooney has (Think it was 4 or 5) then asked how many of them had been played out wide?

 

Why play a striker out wide when you've got players who actually do play out wide on the bench and a player who also plays out wide, starting down the middle (Sterling).

 

The blame has to lie with the manager, it now looks like he is going to swap Sterling and Rooney for the next match.

[Hafnia]

I can understand him not being as effective on the left but this is a lad who's touted as being world class by many experts also said to be our best player yet can't handle playing on the left hand side of a three pronged attack he's not playing as a winger as such as people constantly insinuate....

 

Why are we so insistent on trying to accommodate players who hardly deliver it's an age old problem for us, people are quick to forget he's played in his preferred position in past tournaments and failed to deliver for me he simply can not cut it on the big stage at international level.

 

I'd rather drop him and start with Barkley or Chamberlain on the left which would be more affective and we don't change the shape of a side that looked threatening to accommodate a player that's failed to score at a world cup finals, it's to risky with so few games to change things up all in hope he "finally" comes good.

 

This, i'm generally getting tired of Rooney - all his sulks, demands, and all round attitude really. It's always all about him, whinging at being played out of position, whinging about not being number 1 striker, moaning that players being signed aren't good enough. Now taking to facebook to whinge about accusations of something to doi with extra training.

 

I much preferred the player that had golden Umbro boots, drove a blue Mini, was awe struck at David Beckham, took on Turkey and decided to get involved with the scrap at half time.

 

Somewhere along the line he forgot about enjoying the game.

[EFC-Paul]

Was listening to Talksport this morning and they made a good point (For a change) they named all the players who had scored more goals for England than Rooney has (Think it was 4 or 5) then asked how many of them had been played out wide?

 

Why play a striker out wide when you've got players who actually do play out wide on the bench and a player who also plays out wide, starting down the middle (Sterling).

 

The blame has to lie with the manager, it now looks like he is going to swap Sterling and Rooney for the next match.

He's played in that position in previous tournaments and failed to make any sort of impact!

 

I rate Rooney and on his day he's unplayable but how many of those day's have we seen in the last few years....very few

 

To me it's a similar scenario to the Gerrard Lampard situation trying to adjust and adapt a whole squad and system to squeeze them in when in reality it just does not work. We finally have a chance to give younger and more exciting players a go and we fall back into the age old English game of chess by trying to play players due to either who they are or who they play for.

 

Your right on the manager but for me it's his fault for not having the bollocks to drop the lad and show him it's time to either deliver at the next opportunity or other players who have played better when given the chance will step in a take his place.

Edited June 18, 2014 by EFC-Paul

[marcopaulo]

Someone needs to sit the fool down and say "play Rooney up front, or not at all."

 

It's fucking simple.

 

was starting to think i was the only one who thought this

[Matt]

 

was starting to think i was the only one who thought this

nah man, its just the most ironic phrase of all time - common sense.

[marcopaulo]

shame common sense doesn't extend to idiots

[Romey 1878]

shame common sense doesn't extend to idiots

The bloke has a speech impediment and you want to call him an idiot too? You're a hard man, Paul.

[Cornish Steve]

He meant that commonsense doesn't extend to widgets.

[BlueBlood81]

 

This, i'm generally getting tired of Rooney - all his sulks, demands, and all round attitude really. It's always all about him, whinging at being played out of position, whinging about not being number 1 striker, moaning that players being signed aren't good enough. Now taking to facebook to whinge about accusations of something to doi with extra training.

 

I much preferred the player that had golden Umbro boots, drove a blue Mini, was awe struck at David Beckham, took on Turkey and decided to get involved with the scrap at half time.

 

Somewhere along the line he forgot about enjoying the game.

About the same time he sold his soul to the Red Devil's. Is it coincidence that the last time he did it on the world stage was before then?

[Bailey]

I think the criticism aimed at Rooney is misdirected because the brunt should be going on Hodgson. Rooney is never a wide player, he doesn't have any of the main skills to play in that position. I don't even think he is truly good enough to be a number 10 (he is ok in that position but nothing special). Upfront as a number 9 he is the best player England have had for a long time but he doesn't really get the chance to play it that role with the team behind helping him. If you played an attacking midfield with 3 of Lallana, Sterling, Barkley and AOC you would see the striker he is meant to be and you would probably get a much more balanced 11. None of this striker playing wide crap.

 

It might be harsh on Sturridge but overall I do think Rooney can be the better player albeit he is a little out of form. Like Haf says he doesn't look as sharp as he can but it's hard to gauge when he is being asked to be something he is not and mentally it could have thrown him a little.

 

It's things like this that should have been looked at in the warm up games.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Bailey

[MikeO]

I think the criticism aimed at Rooney is misdirected because the brunt should be going on Hodgson. Rooney is never a wide player, he doesn't have any of the main skills to play in that position. I don't even think he is truly good enough to be a number 10 (he is ok in that position but nothing special). Upfront as a number 9 he is the best player England have had for a long time but he doesn't really get the chance to play it that role with the team behind helping him. If you played an attacking midfield

 

Left us hanging there Bailey!

[Bailey]

Haha may have been a little premature with the post button!

[marcopaulo]

The bloke has a speech impediment and you want to call him an idiot too? You're a hard man, Paul.

 

who we on about like?

 

i'm havin a right thick day...hit myself in the face with my headset on fifa before cos couldn't get it on my head so dropped it and went to boot it and missed...gonna go bed til friday i think

[Romey 1878]

 

who we on about like?

 

i'm havin a right thick day...hit myself in the face with my headset on fifa before cos couldn't get it on my head so dropped it and went to boot it and missed...gonna go bed til friday i think

I say he has a speech impediment and you need to ask who?! Really?! Go back to bed mate, you need a rest.

[Romey 1878]

AOC is out of the Uruguay game. Looks like his was a wasted selection.

[marcopaulo]

I say he has a speech impediment and you need to ask who?! Really?! Go back to bed mate, you need a rest.

 

oh yeah

 

 

night guys

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Guest Nikica]

I thought England did okay to be honest. Some of their passing and movement was nice, and they had more about them than in the last few tournaments. Gerrard proved again that he's never a CM and never has been - he was dire. He can't control games, but he could affect them with moments of magic futher up the past. He can't do that any more so he's simply a liability sitting deeper. Rooney was poor too but at least he didn't hide like Gerrard.

 

Was very impressed with Sterling and Welbeck did well in pressing the ball - his problem is that if he's the one who gains possession he doesn't have any ability to do something with it. Baines was poor but he had zero protection.

 

Overall England did well but Italy were relatively comfortable and you feel they were in first gear. They're a better team than England so no shame for the English. I think Uruguay will be a tight game but I fancy them to beat you by a goal. However, a draw or England win is very realistic. (that was the prediction I altered - went from 2-2 to 2-1 Uruguay). I'm also not surprised that Costa Rica have started well because they're no mugs and have been improving - nobody at this tournament are mugs, except perhaps Iran. I still expected Costa Rica to lose but not to be embarrassed - they went two better and actually won the game. Good on them.

 

I see there is an argument going on about how qualified pundits are. The foreign ones tend to be good but most of the Brits talk garbage and clearly aren't academically educated either, hence their reliance on boring cliches (see Shearer, Neville, Rio etc). Lots of great players are rubbish managers - heck look at Maradona, his ability as a football is inversely proprtional to his ability as a manager. It means nothing, especially in Britain where these players grew up in a more 'prehistoric' footballing culture.

[Guest blueboy122]

I think the criticism aimed at Rooney is misdirected because the brunt should be going on Hodgson. Rooney is never a wide player, he doesn't have any of the main skills to play in that position. I don't even think he is truly good enough to be a number 10 (he is ok in that position but nothing special). Upfront as a number 9 he is the best player England have had for a long time but he doesn't really get the chance to play it that role with the team behind helping him. If you played an attacking midfield with 3 of Lallana, Sterling, Barkley and AOC you would see the striker he is meant to be and you would probably get a much more balanced 11. None of this striker playing wide crap.

 

It might be harsh on Sturridge but overall I do think Rooney can be the better player albeit he is a little out of form. Like Haf says he doesn't look as sharp as he can but it's hard to gauge when he is being asked to be something he is not and mentally it could have thrown him a little.

 

It's things like this that should have been looked at in the warm up games.

100% spot on Bailey. The book stops with the manager for playing Rooney out wide and totally leaving Baines exposed.

 

The current manager hasn't got a clue. England could really benefit from a Martinez/Rodgers style manager.

[Guest Nikica]

100% spot on Bailey. The book stops with the manager for playing Rooney out wide and totally leaving Baines exposed.

 

The current manager hasn't got a clue. England could really benefit from a Martinez/Rodgers style manager.

 

Hodgson hasn't got an iota, that's true.

[Guest Nikica]

Not when it's almost universal across all pundits especially foreign. Not one has said drop him. Football people... Not journalists and forum members. I know who I'd rather listen to.

 

Posted earlier, but just read through the thread a bit, and I like you Cotto, but...

 

how many times have I explained what an appeal to authority is on this site? Yet people are STILL doing it. I've already showed why it's fallacious reasoning, you saw me show why to Peter H...yet you are still doing it. I mention it in the post above but I am elaborating further.

 

Cannavaro and the other foreign pundits know their stuff - but ffs look at their body language when they are asked about Rooney. It screams 'I think he's overrated but this is English TV and I have to be diplomatic'. Even the careful use of their words is very diplomatic.

 

Even if they're being genuine, as others have said there's a lot of agendas going on - talking him up because of who he is, and because the other English players aren't that well-known to foreigners because most non-PL based foreign footballers couldn't really care less about the Premier League and never watch it. I wouldn't be surprised if Cannavaro didn't know who the fuck Sterling or Lallana are until a month ago. OTOH Rooney is a household name.

 

Rooney was poor yes, but I can't believe that Stevie Me hasn't even been mentioned here. He was terrible, the worst player on the park without question - never tracked runners, tried too many Hollywoods, didn't distribute the ball well enough or position himself intelligently enough to receive it from his CBs at key points. He was woeful but it seems blasphemy to criticise him, and fashionable to criticise Rooney. Gerrard genuinely is one of the most overrated players I have seen in 25+ years of watching football - even at his so-called 'best' he was incapable of dominating a midfield - he's known for great long-range shooting and running about like a headless chicken, and that's it really. He's tactically clueless and plays on instinct. If he was Spanish or Italian he'd be lucky to have 5 caps.

 

Gerrard also has a habit of running his mouth before games - he and England talk a good game but aren't producing it on the park. The thick cunt should stop talking himself and England up. He's still doing it even though they lost to Italy. Stupid foreheadless idiot.

 

You'll leak more goals with that imbecile Gerrard starting - mark my words. The problem is you have no other decent alternatives in the DM role.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Nikica

[Guest Nikica]

Exactly. The same logic could be used for Messi when playing for Argentina he has never performed for his country do Argentina drop him?

 

 

Messi is infinitely better than Rooney and that's why he is never dropped - because he's capable of creating a moment of magic no matter how badly he is playing, unlike Rooney who has a shocking lowest level.

 

This is relatively unfair about Messi anyway - he actually played quite well in South Africa until the Germany game. He's also been brilliant for the last three years in qualifying for Argentina against some excellent teams. I can't stand Messi - he's a prick. But I hope he rams the doubters words down their throats because the shit he takes is way OTT.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Nikica

[MC11]

Posted earlier, but just read through the thread a bit, and I like you Cotto, but...

 

how many times have I explained what an appeal to authority is on this site? Yet people are STILL doing it. I've already showed why it's fallacious reasoning, you saw me show why to Peter H...yet you are still doing it. I mention it in the post above but I am elaborating further.

 

Cannavaro and the other foreign pundits know their stuff - but ffs look at their body language when they are asked about Rooney. It screams 'I think he's overrated but this is English TV and I have to be diplomatic'. Even the careful use of their words is very diplomatic.

 

Even if they're being genuine, as others have said there's a lot of agendas going on - talking him up because of who he is, and because the other English players aren't that well-known to foreigners because most non-PL based foreign footballers couldn't really care less about the Premier League and never watch it. I wouldn't be surprised if Cannavaro didn't know who the fuck Sterling or Lallana are until a month ago. OTOH Rooney is a household name.

 

Rooney was poor yes, but I can't believe that Stevie Me hasn't even been mentioned here. He was terrible, the worst player on the park without question - never tracked runners, tried too many Hollywoods, didn't distribute the ball well enough or position himself intelligently enough to receive it from his CBs at key points. He was woeful but it seems blasphemy to criticise him, and fashionable to criticise Rooney. Gerrard genuinely is one of the most overrated players I have seen in 25+ years of watching football - even at his so-called 'best' he was incapable of dominating a midfield - he's known for great long-range shooting and running about like a headless chicken, and that's it really. He's tactically clueless and plays on instinct. If he was Spanish or Italian he'd be lucky to have 5 caps.

 

Gerrard also has a habit of running his mouth before games - he and England talk a good game but aren't producing it on the park. The thick cunt should stop talking himself and England up. He's still doing it even though they lost to Italy. Stupid foreheadless idiot.

 

You'll leak more goals with that imbecile Gerrard starting - mark my words. The problem is you have no other decent alternatives in the DM role.

No problem Nik.

[Guest Nikica]

Yeah, sorry mate. Was in 'that' zone and went off on one a bit. My point stands though - arguing from authority is fallacious as it then means you have to agree with everything someone says if you refer to them as an authority in a certain instance. It's a risky way to argue, and I did it myself a few times before I learned about these matters. That's not to say that there's no merit in authoritative knowledge - of course that's not the case. However, to put such figures on a pedestal is a problematic way to argue.

 

All that stuff about Gerrard was somewhat of a rant, but tbh I've always rated him higher further up the park where he could shoot or use his running power in the final third. Clearly he can't do that now so he's a liability in a screening role.

[markjazzbassist]

suarez is starting, england same lineup vs italy. with no changes i expect a uruguay victory, roy will be sacked, and maybe the youngsters get to play versus costa rica.

[Guest Nikica]

What's the chances of Suarez biting Stevie boy and hence a conflict in the Pool dressing room before the season even begins? We can but hope.

[MC11]

Let's see how Baines does apparently Suarez is playing on the right.

[Guest Nikica]

suarez is starting, england same lineup vs italy. with no changes i expect a uruguay victory, roy will be sacked, and maybe the youngsters get to play versus costa rica.

 

Lodeiro is no a bad player but other than him their midfield looks devoid of creativity. Might not be a problem as Suarez likes to come deep and get the ball himself, but he's not fully fit so they can't rely on him to create moments of magic from zip.