England

[markjazzbassist]

Marchisio played on the left mate.

 

no he was the attacking mid, there's 11 on my chart, that's how they lined up.

[MC11]

no he was the attacking mid, there's 11 on my chart, that's how they lined up.

Na he played on the left mate

[Cornish Steve]

The difference between CIV and Japan: Drogba. Within 5 minutes of him coming on the field, the score went from 1-0 Japan to 2-1 CIV. That's what England need, someone who can inspire the team.

[Guest blueboy122]

Give your head a wobble. He sold himself like a Sunday league player for the second goal and gave their wide players acres of space for 70minutes of the game.(when they were in control). He's not a world class defender and unfortunately you have to be against that calibre of side. That's how I saw it. He was the weak link.

You want Baines to press high against 2 Italian players there full back and their winger and chase them round like a headless... Give your head a wobble mate. Have you ever played football? Genuine question.

 

He could have done better for the second goal but the shite your spouting is knee jerk reaction.

 

should have taken Cole?

 

The same Cole who's best years were past him years ago hence released from Chelsea and you say Baines has peaked when last year he was statistically the best left back in Europe? Has been good this year to just hasn't been involved to much because different style of play.

 

Ashley has been over the hill for the past two years. John Terry should have gone though definately. I would play Shaw over Cole.

 

Can't believe your attitude towards a top class player because he didn't stop one cross which should have been dealt with better by midfielders and centre backs by the way.

[Guest blueboy122]

 

You're exactly right with the bold part. It's just that the weakness was that the left winger wasn't tracking back, the left central midfielder wasn't providing cover, and yet Hodgson didn't change anything.

Bingo.

 

Don't know what Cotto is talking about or if he saw the game. Baines as a player wasn't the weakness it was the fact that his position could be double teamed by the opposition because they knew full well that Baines was left isolated time after time.

 

Steve Mac on ESPN was shouting for ages for England to put a man there.

 

To say the Italians thought "get at baines is ridiculous" the Italians thought get at the left side it's a two on one situation every time.

[MC11]

Welbeck moved to the left after half time. Did he leave Baines open too? Because he was terrorised then as well. On that performance I'm not sure he's good enough as a defender.

 

He was left with a couple of men at times but others the space in and around him was ridiculous. He tends to stand off instead of getting stuck in.

 

In that situation if Hodgson wasn't willing to have a defensive LM playing we needed a world class defender at left back and Baines isn't world class defensively. They played 99% on Baines that says sonething

Edited June 15, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[msloan78]

Yeh so what your saying is they seen our left as the weakness and they were completely right. How anyone could say our right was more exposed I don't know.

They will have seen that Baines is one of the best attacking wing backs in Europe and a significant threat, and said 'let's make sure we pin him back and make him defend more. Also let's try and keep Rooney quiet' .... Et voila. Right winger presses on, Rooney doesn't work hard enough in defence to cover.... Italy have overloads all day long.

 

I agree that Baines should have done much better for the goal, but Italy got it tactically bang on, and managed to contain the threat.

[MC11]

They will have seen that Baines is one of the best attacking wing backs in Europe and a significant threat, and said 'let's make sure we pin him back and make him defend more. Also let's try and keep Rooney quiet' .... Et voila. Right winger presses on, Rooney doesn't work hard enough in defence to cover.... Italy have overloads all day long.

 

I agree that Baines should have done much better for the goal, but Italy got it tactically bang on, and managed to contain the threat.

I can agree with most of that (in terms of tactics from Italy. But Again not with the Rooney bashing. He did ok and Baines inept defending sort of gives reason to scapegoat Rooney. Who is an attacking player. Not a defensive one.

[Steve_E]

I can agree with most of that (in terms of tactics from Italy. But Again not with the Rooney bashing. He did ok and Baines inept defending sort of gives reason to scapegoat Rooney. Who is an attacking player. Not a defensive one.

 

Defenders are supposed to attack as well, aren't they? Darmian certainly did. Hence, attackers are supposed to defend.

[MC11]

Defenders are supposed to attack as well, aren't they? Darmian certainly did. Hence, attackers are supposed to defend.

Didn't see much of Baines pinning Damian and Candreva back either though did we.

 

Rooney was nowhere near as bad as made out scapegoat for Baines.

[MikeO]

Red shite commentator on espn Macca (mcmanaman??) was even getting on Rooney and Roy for not doing anything. So it's not blue tinted.

 

Just fyi Steve McManaman was a blue before going over to the dark side.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/mcmanaman-relishes-spice-of-bitter-rivalry-1515225.html

[GoodisonRoad]

Didn't see much of Baines pinning Damian and Candreva back either though did we.

 

Rooney was nowhere near as bad as made out scapegoat for Baines.

 

Rooney was a joke.

 

He left Baines out to Dry every time Italy attacked and offered absolutley nothing going forward. The shot he pulled wide was pathetic. To not even work the keeper from that position when your on £300k a week is unacceptable. And that corner he took with 10 minutes to go...you'd be pissed off if you saw a sunday league player do that never mind an England international.

 

Italy saw that we werent playing with "natural" wingers and exploited that. Cant believe people can pin it on Baines. He was left 2 on 1 every time.

[Hafnia]

Rooney was fooking awful last night... Let's just leave it at that.

 

Rooney played like an overweight Sunday league player. His arrogance is astounding. Selfish decisions, poor work rate. .

[GoodisonRoad]

Unfortunately, we are accommodating Rooney into the team and its having a detrimental effect. I personally wouldn't hesitate one bit in dropping Rooney for any of Lallana, Sterling, Barkley or Ox as they all fit into the "system" we're trying to play. If you look at the players who play that system week in week out for their respective teams it just makes sense. Liverpool, Everton, Southampton all play very similar variations of 4-2-3-1. Which is why their players make up the vast majority of the squad. Rooney just doesnt fit in.

 

Its a joke that we're putting him out on the Left simply because its "Wayne Rooney" and he's a "supposed" World class player who simply must play for his country. If anybody else performed the way he did yesterday they'd have no chance of starting against Uruguay. I'd put £100 on him starting on thursday.

[Guest blueboy122]

Unfortunately, we are accommodating Rooney into the team and its having a detrimental effect. I personally wouldn't hesitate one bit in dropping Rooney for any of Lallana, Sterling, Barkley or Ox as they all fit into the "system" we're trying to play. If you look at the players who play that system week in week out for their respective teams it just makes sense. Liverpool, Everton, Southampton all play very similar variations of 4-2-3-1. Which is why their players make up the vast majority of the squad. Rooney just doesnt fit in.

 

Its a joke that we're putting him out on the Left simply because its "Wayne Rooney" and he's a "supposed" World class player who simply must play for his country. If anybody else performed the way he did yesterday they'd have no chance of starting against Uruguay. I'd put £100 on him starting on thursday.

I do agree with what you are saying about the formations etc it's a very good post although for me Rooney is our best player and simply has got to play. Playing Rooney out wide is a joke when has Rooney ever played wide it's like asking Van Persie, Drogba etc to play there they would be totally in effective. Rooney plays for me definatley but only centrally I would drop Welbeck or Sturridge before Rooney and play Lallana instead with Rooney up top.

[GoodisonRoad]

I do agree with what you are saying about the formations etc it's a very good post although for me Rooney is our best player and simply has got to play. Playing Rooney out wide is a joke when has Rooney ever played wide it's like asking Van Persie, Drogba etc to play there they would be totally in effective. Rooney plays for me definatley but only centrally I would drop Welbeck or Sturridge before Rooney and play Lallana instead with Rooney up top.

 

I understand that Rooney would probably be better played in Sturridge's position but when Sturridge has just scored 20 plus goals in a season for Liverpool and has already scored more in his first world cup than Rooney has in 3 then I personally wouldn't drop him for Rooney.

 

I'd also disagree that he's our best player. I'm not 100% sure who is our best player at the minute as minus Rooney i think its a good "team" no stand out individuals at the moment but some very good players when played correctly.

[Hafnia]

At his best Rooney is a very good player. However he is nowhere near his best, he's not fit, he is making poor choices pressured by his need to score.

 

I think the team would be better without him.

[MC11]

 

Rooney was a joke.

 

He left Baines out to Dry every time Italy attacked and offered absolutley nothing going forward. The shot he pulled wide was pathetic. To not even work the keeper from that position when your on £300k a week is unacceptable. And that corner he took with 10 minutes to go...you'd be pissed off if you saw a sunday league player do that never mind an England international.

 

Italy saw that we werent playing with "natural" wingers and exploited that. Cant believe people can pin it on Baines. He was left 2 on 1 every time.

I know mate. He done absolutely nothing.....

 

Except find space and produce a beautiful cross for the Sturridge goal.... Great assist.

 

Covered the most distance on the field last night. Check the stats.

 

Oh and that miss you talk about.... Should have worked the keeper....? He absolutely done the keeper with that shot. Sirigu was well beaten diving the opposite way. He beat the defender and was unlucky drawing it slightly off target. I agree he should be hitting the target but he absolutely done defender and keeper.

 

He was fine and possibly one of his better tournament performances.

 

You say he left Baines open. Baines was absolutely crap mate. He was 100% our weak link...ask Italy

[MC11]

Rooney was fooking awful last night... Let's just leave it at that.

 

Rooney played like an overweight Sunday league player. His arrogance is astounding. Selfish decisions, poor work rate. .

Poor work rate.... Look at the stats FFS. You're lying

[MikeO]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-27858505

 

[Bailey]

Agree with everything SteveE has said and GoodisonRoad.

 

That game pretty much showed exactly what I have been saying for months. If you start trying to accommodate players into your team at the expense of balance you will struggle, especially against the best sides. Hodgson showed he had no bollacks last night. Idiots saying it was a bold selection cos of Sterling yet it was Lallana that was dropped ahead of the Rooney/Welbeck.

 

No matter who played at LB last night, they would have looked poor because of the complete lack of help from Rooney. He might have covered the most yards but a lot of those were selfish yards in tracking across the other side of pitch to get a touch of the ball and not doing the job he was meant to. It's not his game though and it's something he simply shouldn't have been asked to do.

 

I'm surprised to see Henderson get slated because I thought he was the only one doing anything in the midfield. Gerrard was completely ineffective and Henderson legs stopped us being completely overrun.

 

Welbeck again disappointed me. Henry said at half time that he is a player that doesn't take risks and he hit the nail on the head. He didn't have a bad game but at the same time he doesn't make his mark on the game. I think he probably does have the potential to do it and maybe it's a confidence thing but when you see the fearlessness of Barkley and Sterling, Welbeck would rather stop play, turn back and lay it off to someone else.

[Steve_E]

Agree with everything SteveE has said and GoodisonRoad.

 

That game pretty much showed exactly what I have been saying for months. If you start trying to accommodate players into your team at the expense of balance you will struggle, especially against the best sides. Hodgson showed he had no bollacks last night. Idiots saying it was a bold selection cos of Sterling yet it was Lallana that was dropped ahead of the Rooney/Welbeck.

 

No matter who played at LB last night, they would have looked poor because of the complete lack of help from Rooney. He might have covered the most yards but a lot of those were selfish yards in tracking across the other side of pitch to get a touch of the ball and not doing the job he was meant to. It's not his game though and it's something he simply shouldn't have been asked to do.

 

I'm surprised to see Henderson get slated because I thought he was the only one doing anything in the midfield. Gerrard was completely ineffective and Henderson legs stopped us being completely overrun.

 

Welbeck again disappointed me. Henry said at half time that he is a player that doesn't take risks and he hit the nail on the head. He didn't have a bad game but at the same time he doesn't make his mark on the game. I think he probably does have the potential to do it and maybe it's a confidence thing but when you see the fearlessness of Barkley and Sterling, Welbeck would rather stop play, turn back and lay it off to someone else.

 

Don't understand how you can criticize Welbeck for that game. He played far better than Barkley for me.

[Bailey]

 

Don't understand how you can criticize Welbeck for that game. He played far better than Barkley for me.

He disappointed me because he can do much more. There were worse players for sure, but it was just a nothing performance. I wouldn't say that Barkley was much better but I don't expect Barkley after 1 full season of Premiership football to be pulling up the same trees. All things considered, I thought he did well enough when he came on without doing anything more.

[Bailey]

Actually with Welbeck it's probably more of a frustration. The one positive thing he did all game was on the right wing when the pass he was given gave him no real option other than to dink it past the defender. If he had be given a pass to feet and I would put money on him holding up the ball, turning back and laying it off to someone else.

[MC11]

I thought Welbeck did well. We actually played good football. Left hand side we got merked

[Hafnia]

Poor work rate.... Look at the stats FFS. You're lying

 

The fact he covered over 5km in first half? For a player on the flank that is the expected distance. It was how he covered that distance, as above he was positionally ill disciplined - that for me can be filed under work rate... did he cover the ground doing what he was meant to do? Did he cover that ground at a sprint when he was needed to sprint?

 

For me he was way off the pace, nothing at all in his legs in terms of explosiveness.

 

However.... the argument is this "why does hodgson play an unfit player in a position where he needs to be at his best physically to play" - it was square pegs round holes, something we were used to under Moyes.

 

“We know we can play Wayne in many different positions and I think he has to be pretty satisfied with his performance,” said Hodgson.

"It's looking for things to suggest he didn't do well in that position because I think he did."

 

Complete nonsense.

 

The only reason Rooney may get a start against Uraguay is because he is Wayne Rooney. Anyone watch the second goal from our corner? Ball played to back post, one of our men was blocked from getting backwards to it, and Rooney just kinda let it sail over his head without even attempting to get anything on it. The break up field, Baines exposed, cross in, goal.

[MC11]

The facts are he covered the most distance of any England player therefore you can not question his work rate at all. He is still the best player England have got and is being used as a major scapegoat for the performances of the whole team.

 

He'll play because he's a seasoned professional and on his day is streaks ahead of anyone else currently in the team. It only takes him to have one if those days for him to drag us through on his own. I'd play him barkley & sterling all interchanging.

Edited June 16, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Hafnia]

The facts are he covered the most distance of any England player therefore you can not question his work rate at all. He is still the best player England have got and is being used as a major scapegoat for the performances of the whole team.

 

He'll play because he's a seasoned professional and on his day is streaks ahead of anyone else currently in the team. It only takes him to have one if those days for him to drag us through on his own. I'd play him barkley & sterling all interchanging.

 

Work rate at international level must be aligned to the strategy and shape of the team. For Rooney "work rate" meant he was running out of position for selfish reasons. He made it clear that he didn't enjoy being on the left... spoilt brat behaviour.

 

Is he still the best player England have got? For me no. Sturridge out performs him up front - more pace, movement, finishing. Its clear he can't play on the left - play lallana there or Milner.

[MC11]

He offers a lot more than Sturridge.

 

Every Italian pundit/player before the game when interviewed mentioned one player off their own back Rooney and a Rooney alone.

 

They wern't interested in anyone else. Cannavaro just kept saying Rooney is a special player, he can hurt you etc etc.

 

Rather listen to them than the English journalists. They know they've played against him.

[MikeO]

The facts are he covered the most distance of any England player therefore you can not question his work rate at all.

 

By that logic we should play Mo Farrah on the wing; he'd cover shit loads more distance than Rooney so you'd not be able to question his work rate either. Agree with Haf, how far you run is largely irrelevant.