Axel Witsel

[chicagoblue]

£120k is quite moderate in the grand scheme of things and you won't get proven quality without paying for it so don't really see it as selling our soul

 

 

 

Is the Russian league proven quality now?

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Lowensda]

The Twitter responses from Kopites is hilarious.

 

"He's only going for the money"

"Players are greedy, Everton will have mercenaries on their hands"

 

Benteke was on 120k a week. And he's dreadful.

[Romey 1878]

 

 

 

We've impressed him with just how much money we'll throw his way, basically.

[Hafnia]

I hope he's as good as the money suggests....

[Peter H]

im very happy about this. 120k or not, he is a quality player!

[Aidan]

[Lowensda]

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt]

£120k is quite moderate in the grand scheme of things and you won't get proven quality without paying for it so don't really see it as selling our soul

 

Is he proven quality? He's played in Belgium, Portugal and most recently Russia. He's looked ok (and ok only) in the Euros, though I don't pay much attention to competition games, its too different.

 

If we pay this guy 120k we're really opening the door to mercenaries so yeah, if true our soul is gone.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Is he proven quality? He's played in Belgium, Portugal and most recently Russia. He's looked ok (and ok only) in the Euros, though I don't pay much attention to competition games, its too different.

 

If we pay this guy 120k we're really opening the door to mercenaries so yeah, if true our soul is gone.

He is a top player and if paying moderate wages means selling our soul then I'm afraid it's something we need to do to survive

 

 

[Paddock]

Is he proven quality? He's played in Belgium, Portugal and most recently Russia. He's looked ok (and ok only) in the Euros, though I don't pay much attention to competition games, its too different.

 

If we pay this guy 120k we're really opening the door to mercenaries so yeah, if true our soul is gone.

How is our soul gone?? You mean we're finally paying wages to attract good players instead of missing out time and time again to other clubs gazumping us? The way the money is these days it's not a massive amount, thereis players in the prem on double that so given our financial standing to the teams who pay those type of wages I think 120 a week is not stupid wages.

[Matt]

How is our soul gone?? You mean we're finally paying wages to attract good players instead of missing out time and time again to other clubs gazumping us? The way the money is these days it's not a massive amount, thereis players in the prem on double that so given our financial standing to the teams who pay those type of wages I think 120 a week is not stupid wages.

I think throwing silly money at a player who is untested in this league, adding 50% on top of our highest existing salary and thus redefining the entire wage structure of the club is selling our soul. I understand the maths of "good players get good wages" but I am no convinced he deserves this wage (let alone transfer fee).

 

Maybe I'm just afraid of the change, it just doesn't feel natural

Edited July 5, 2016 by Matt

[markjazzbassist]

How is our soul gone?? You mean we're finally paying wages to attract good players instead of missing out time and time again to other clubs gazumping us? The way the money is these days it's not a massive amount, thereis players in the prem on double that so given our financial standing to the teams who pay those type of wages I think 120 a week is not stupid wages.

 

i agree.

[JoeQuince]

Is he proven quality? He's played in Belgium, Portugal and most recently Russia. He's looked ok (and ok only) in the Euros, though I don't pay much attention to competition games, its too different.

 

If we pay this guy 120k we're really opening the door to mercenaries so yeah, if true our soul is gone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 1990s-2010s period more of an exception than it is the rule in our history? Weren't we one of the clubs that paid players and made record signings before the Premier League era? Didn't we have a reputation as a moneyed club? So, maybe the provincial notion about us really being a club of crafty penny pinchers who know how to punch above their weight on a shoestring budget has less depth than we think.

 

There tends to be a correlation in this world between one's place and practices and an ideology that justifies, legitimates and rationalizes them as morally superior and just. Sure, maybe we've been convinced of our moral victories in a world gone crazy with cash, as at least we still haven't sold out. But, football is about winning and losing on the pitch. Those who manage the club need to please the fans. If they can't win on the pitch, they need to do whatever they can ideologically to make the fans continue to care about and even believe in the club. This takes the form of media campaigns that tell us how special this club is and how it's unlike those other clubs who lack the integrity (or class, understanding, belief in certain principles, etc) that we have. Thus, many of us can point to loving Everton for some reason or another that only makes sense in a field of other clubs that are unlike Everton in X/Y/Z ways. "Those clubs are soulless. They have no heart. They're plastic. Etc." But, whether or not these statements are accurate, they say more about US than they do about THEM. What I think we are dealing with and will be dealing with in this transition (from "plucky little Everton" to being a club with major expectations and money that allows us to compete in the contemporary game) is a change in culture and mindset and coming closer to what we've all trained ourselves to hate and made the butt of all of our inside jokes for years.

 

The soul of the club, or of any club (if there is one), has never been the players (at least not since this became a game that you didn't have to work a side job to survive in). Their job is to go out and compete as professionals and bring home a win (or a performance worthy of winning). The soul is in the people who give their days, weeks, months and years to caring about the club and its fortunes as if their own personal happiness depended upon it. The soul is in the people who go to the games (if they are so lucky), wake up early or go to bed late to watch from afar, participate in a community of other supporters, and who support the club through thick and thin as if they have a familial connection to it.

 

Sure, money has changed the nature of how clubs and players operate. But, it's really always been about the fans and the community. And, this is something that (for all their failings) I think Everton have recognized and done a solid job with. As long as the club remembers that it is ultimately about delivering something the fans can be proud of, then it will still have its "soul."

 

That said, I'm not convinced Witsel is worth what we are apparently going to pay for his services. Though, I admittedly know very little of him as a player beyond his work history and appearances in international matches, where he's looked decent but not world class.

Edited July 5, 2016 by JoeQuince

[c1982]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/05/everton-axel-witsel-move-ahead-napoli?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

At least the Napoli employee isn't bitter!

[Lowensda]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 1990s-2010s period more of an exception than it is the rule in our history? Weren't we one of the clubs that paid players and made record signings before the Premier League era? Didn't we have a reputation as a moneyed club? So, maybe the provincial notion about us really being a club of crafty penny pinchers who know how to punch above their weight on a shoestring budget has less depth than we think.

 

There tends to be a correlation in this world between one's place and practices and an ideology that justifies, legitimates and rationalizes them as morally superior and just. Sure, maybe we've been convinced of our moral victories in a world gone crazy with cash, as at least we still haven't sold out. But, football is about winning and losing on the pitch. Those who manage the club need to please the fans. If they can't win on the pitch, they need to do whatever they can ideologically to make the fans continue to care about and even believe in the club. This takes the form of media campaigns that tell us how special this club is and how it's unlike those other clubs who lack the integrity (or class, understanding, belief in certain principles, etc) that we have. Thus, many of us can point to loving Everton for some reason or another that only makes sense in a field of other clubs that are unlike Everton in X/Y/Z ways. "Those clubs are soulless. They have no heart. They're plastic. Etc." But, whether or not these statements are accurate, they say more about US than they do about THEM. What I think we are dealing with and will be dealing with in this transition (from "plucky little Everton" to being a club with major expectations and money that allows us to compete in the contemporary game) is a change in culture and mindset and coming closer to what we've all trained ourselves to hate and made the butt of all of our inside jokes for years.

 

The soul of the club, or of any club (if there is one), has never been the players (at least not since this became a game that you didn't have to work a side job to survive in). Their job is to go out and compete as professionals and bring home a win (or a performance worthy of winning). The soul is in the people who give their days, weeks, months and years to caring about the club and its fortunes as if their own personal happiness depended upon it. The soul is in the people who go to the games (if they are so lucky), wake up early or go to bed late to watch from afar, participate in a community of other supporters, and who support the club through thick and thin as if they have a familial connection to it.

 

Sure, money has changed the nature of how clubs and players operate. But, it's really always been about the fans and the community. And, this is something that (for all their failings) I think Everton have recognized and done a solid job with. As long as the club remembers that it is ultimately about delivering something the fans can be proud of, then it will still have its "soul."

 

That said, I'm not convinced Witsel is worth what we are apparently going to pay for his services. Though, I admittedly know very little of him as a player beyond his work history and appearances in international matches, where he's looked decent but not world class.

 

That is a very good post.

[Romey 1878]

If nothing else it'll be fun watching the heads fall off of fans of other clubs if we actually do spunk a load of money on this lad.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://twitter.com/emagiulianelli/status/750307743559512064

 

 

[markjazzbassist]

if true does that mean mccarthy will be sold or do you think he'll just be squad filler now?

[Lowensda]

If nothing else it'll be fun watching the heads fall off of fans of other clubs if we actually do spunk a load of money on this lad.

 

It's already started mate....(and he hasn't even signed yet)

 

http://www.footballfancast.com/premier-league/everton/why-premier-league-clubs-must-not-let-axel-witsel-move-to-everton

 

WHY PREMIER LEAGUE CLUBS MUST NOT LET AXEL WITSEL MOVE TO EVERTON

 

[Matt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 1990s-2010s period more of an exception than it is the rule in our history? Weren't we one of the clubs that paid players and made record signings before the Premier League era? Didn't we have a reputation as a moneyed club? So, maybe the provincial notion about us really being a club of crafty penny pinchers who know how to punch above their weight on a shoestring budget has less depth than we think.

 

There tends to be a correlation in this world between one's place and practices and an ideology that justifies, legitimates and rationalizes them as morally superior and just. Sure, maybe we've been convinced of our moral victories in a world gone crazy with cash, as at least we still haven't sold out. But, football is about winning and losing on the pitch. Those who manage the club need to please the fans. If they can't win on the pitch, they need to do whatever they can ideologically to make the fans continue to care about and even believe in the club. This takes the form of media campaigns that tell us how special this club is and how it's unlike those other clubs who lack the integrity (or class, understanding, belief in certain principles, etc) that we have. Thus, many of us can point to loving Everton for some reason or another that only makes sense in a field of other clubs that are unlike Everton in X/Y/Z ways. "Those clubs are soulless. They have no heart. They're plastic. Etc." But, whether or not these statements are accurate, they say more about US than they do about THEM. What I think we are dealing with and will be dealing with in this transition (from "plucky little Everton" to being a club with major expectations and money that allows us to compete in the contemporary game) is a change in culture and mindset and coming closer to what we've all trained ourselves to hate and made the butt of all of our inside jokes for years.

 

The soul of the club, or of any club (if there is one), has never been the players (at least not since this became a game that you didn't have to work a side job to survive in). Their job is to go out and compete as professionals and bring home a win (or a performance worthy of winning). The soul is in the people who give their days, weeks, months and years to caring about the club and its fortunes as if their own personal happiness depended upon it. The soul is in the people who go to the games (if they are so lucky), wake up early or go to bed late to watch from afar, participate in a community of other supporters, and who support the club through thick and thin as if they have a familial connection to it.

 

Sure, money has changed the nature of how clubs and players operate. But, it's really always been about the fans and the community. And, this is something that (for all their failings) I think Everton have recognized and done a solid job with. As long as the club remembers that it is ultimately about delivering something the fans can be proud of, then it will still have its "soul."

 

That said, I'm not convinced Witsel is worth what we are apparently going to pay for his services. Though, I admittedly know very little of him as a player beyond his work history and appearances in international matches, where he's looked decent but not world class.

trouble is mate, I grew up watching during 90s and 00s so this is a massive change for me and I'm just uncomfortable with lobbing stupid money at a player I'm not convinced about - £30-35m in the last year of his contract and 120k a week just makes my head spin. If I was convinced about the player I don't think I'd be as bothered, but I'd still feel uncomfortable.

 

Excellent post by the way

[Matt]

 

It's already started mate....(and he hasn't even signed yet)

 

http://www.footballfancast.com/premier-league/everton/why-premier-league-clubs-must-not-let-axel-witsel-move-to-everton

 

thats the worst bit of fanboi click bait that I've seen in a while!

[Lowensda]

thats the worst bit of fanboi click bait that I've seen in a while!

 

It's bloody awful and horrendously kopite-like.

[Cornish Steve]

£120k is quite moderate in the grand scheme of things and you won't get proven quality without paying for it so don't really see it as selling our soul

 

 

 

If true, existing players will understandably feel aggrieved and may demand huge salary increases for themselves. Depressing if you ask me.

[JoeQuince]

trouble is mate, I grew up watching during 90s and 00s so this is a massive change for me and I'm just uncomfortable with lobbing stupid money at a player I'm not convinced about - £30-35m in the last year of his contract and 120k a week just makes my head spin. If I was convinced about the player I don't think I'd be as bothered, but I'd still feel uncomfortable.

 

Excellent post by the way

I came along to Everton in the '00s, when ESPN started showing PL matches in the US. So, this is also all I've ever known. I feel the exact same way as you. It's all very exciting and highly upsetting at the same time, witnessing the changes that the club is undergoing and considering what this means for our week-in-week-out support (and our identity as Evertonians). But, I think it's important that we try to understand why this is so upsetting within a broader context. Then we can cope with it positively and move forward rather than get angry and reactionary.

[Matt]

I came along to Everton in the '00s, when ESPN started showing PL matches in the US. So, this is also all I've ever known. I feel the exact same way as you. It's all very exciting and highly upsetting at the same time, witnessing the changes that the club is undergoing and considering what this means for our week-in-week-out support (and our identity as Evertonians). But, I think it's important that we try to understand why this is so upsetting within a broader context. Then we can cope with it positively and move forward rather than get angry and reactionary.

im not angry mate, I'm just worried.

[Aidan]

 

 

 

 

 

What does your reply say I haven't got my glasses?

[Finn balor]

I think we all have to be realistic and concede defeat to our principles. We've moaned for ages were skint blah blah. Now we have the dough which is what we all have wanted were moaning that we are spending it. When you see palace reportedly offering benteke 100k plus we have to realise that is now the life. Look at American footballers they earn fortunes. I think the new owner knows a lot more than us and has a clear vision of where we want to go. Can u imagine witzel,shneirderlin,Barkley,mata, Gerry/kev in midfield?

[London Blue]

More money is part of the modern game, for good or bad. I just don't want it to change the soul of our club, I also don't want it to mean that we don't give youth a chance. We have some very talented youngsters and I want them to get their chance.

 

I think we have to accept with the money now involved in the game, the salaries are going to be obscene. We have to accept that not every player we sign isn't going to become an Everton fan, some will sign just for the money, but as long as they perform it doesn't matter.

 

We can't change that we just have to make sure we don't turn into City or Chelski, I would hate that.

[markjazzbassist]

merseyside millionaires, if anything we are just taking our old namesake back.

[Isaiah]

I'm the only one excited over this one.

Watching him in the euros he seemed like just the type of player we need.

 

An all action, pacy and energetic player

 

Nope, you're not the only one. I've lived in St Petersburg since 2001, season ticket holder at Petrovskiy Stadium (or rather the company I work for has a box) and I've seen him play many times. His attitude is good, he's skillful and he's powerful in the middle of the pitch. Sure the Russian league isn't the strongest, but his performances in the Champions League were always excellent. He'll be a good signing. And with talk of Gazprom to soon stop bank-rolling the club (hence Hulk being quickly sold to China), he shouldn't be crazy expensive either.