Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Matt]

 

"When you have players coming back from the World Cup you have to decide if you want the players straight away or do you give them a bit of time to refresh and be ready to play for 10 months?” said Martinez.

“It will only be Kevin Mirallas and Rom who might not start the season. For Romelu, it will depend on how he adapts to work from now until August 16.

“There is a degree of risk if you put them into a situation so early. They’ve been training really well and are accumulating a lot of work.

“Playing in a game would have stopped them being able to get in a lot of that extra work and we didn’t want to do that.

“They’re not going to be a part [of the team] but they will get three sessions in while we’re out here.

“That will accelerate the process of them being ready as quickly as possible.”

 

 

I think it is how Martinez wants to prepare them. Don't get me wrong I want them playing but I want them right. The Moyes era of seeing overtrained, leggy players in August has taught me that.

Though we always managed to finish strongly. Wonder if it was related.

[MC11]

We'll struggle against sides like Leicester without Mirallas and Coleman more than Lukaku.

[Hafnia]

Though we always managed to finish strongly. Wonder if it was related.

 

Not sure did the stroing finish mean the players needed extra rest? but I do think that Moyes boot camp methods hit us hard with early injuries and as I say players looking laboured.

[Matt]

 

Not sure did the stroing finish mean the players needed extra rest? but I do think that Moyes boot camp methods hit us hard with early injuries and as I say players looking laboured.

Dont disagree. Im saying that despite intensive training we seemed to be prepared for the long run. So why does resting the players prepare them for a game 9 months further down the line? We had early injuries beginning of last season too, so I dont get the argument

[Aidan]

Lukaku could have declined that much in fitness. He was even training with Anderlect (sp?) after the world cup.

[Bailey]

I think he is training them both for the day and I still think both will start.

 

It's a different approach but unless anyone else in here has the qualifications he has, I don't think we can really question his methods until after we see the results. Rom looks leaner than I have seen before, so hopefully it's working!

[Bailey]

Dont disagree. Im saying that despite intensive training we seemed to be prepared for the long run. So why does resting the players prepare them for a game 9 months further down the line? We had early injuries beginning of last season too, so I dont get the argument

Don't forget this is a slightly different case because of the WC and not the norm.

 

In 2010-11 we played 7 preseason games, had less players involved and whilst we beat Norwich we were soundly beaten in our only meaningful friendly. We didn't win in the league until October and other than that month we were poor until Feb. It's amazing we finished 7th but we only had 54 points, 18 less than last season.

[Hafnia]

Dont disagree. Im saying that despite intensive training we seemed to be prepared for the long run. So why does resting the players prepare them for a game 9 months further down the line? We had early injuries beginning of last season too, so I dont get the argument

 

Its a bit like a boxer, they train with an intensity and then closer to the fight they train light in order to be fresh.

 

In the fight they are then prepared for the later rounds.

 

I'm not sure as to whether our ability to be better at the latter part of the season wasn't down to less games versus other teams around us.

[Paddock]

 

"When you have players coming back from the World Cup you have to decide if you want the players straight away or do you give them a bit of time to refresh and be ready to play for 10 months? said Martinez.

It will only be Kevin Mirallas and Rom who might not start the season. For Romelu, it will depend on how he adapts to work from now until August 16.

There is a degree of risk if you put them into a situation so early. Theyve been training really well and are accumulating a lot of work.

Playing in a game would have stopped them being able to get in a lot of that extra work and we didnt want to do that.

Theyre not going to be a part [of the team] but they will get three sessions in while were out here.

That will accelerate the process of them being ready as quickly as possible.

 

 

I think it is how Martinez wants to prepare them. Don't get me wrong I want them playing but I want them right. The Moyes era of seeing overtrained, leggy players in August has taught me that.

And he is the manager and he knows a lot more than what I do but I just don't buy into this world cup rest time shite. If other players can do it ours can as well. If Sanchez for example was an exception to the rule you could just say he's a naturally fit lad who's a bit of a freak of nature fitness wise but almost all players who went the world cup seem to be playing regularly in friendlies Haf so why not ours. When I say almost all I can't obviously say I know everyone but certainly the higher profile players in our league and the big european leagues seem to have been playing. Is Martinez being over catious with ours? I'm not an expert but looking at other teams they seem to have their world cup players firing and ready.

 

Again this to me points to our really , in my opinion disastrous and unorganised pre season.

 

As Matts pointed out, our players were worked into the ground by Moyes yet we finished strongly almost every season. Hard work brings fitness, match practice brings sharpness. We need our big game players to hit the ground running this season we're gonna have to scrap for every point if we're looking to even equal next seasons efforts not pussy footing around our key players.

 

Get them fit and get them on the pitch doing what they're paid to do.

 

Things like this is what makes me say the jury is out on Martinez for me.

[Hafnia]

And he is the manager and he knows a lot more than what I do but I just don't buy into this world cup rest time shite. If other players can do it ours can as well. If Sanchez for example was an exception to the rule you could just say he's a naturally fit lad who's a bit of a freak of nature fitness wise but almost all players who went the world cup seem to be playing regularly in friendlies Haf so why not ours. When I say almost all I can't obviously say I know everyone but certainly the higher profile players in our league and the big european leagues seem to have been playing. Is Martinez being over catious with ours? I'm not an expert but looking at other teams they seem to have their world cup players firing and ready.

 

Again this to me points to our really , in my opinion disastrous and unorganised pre season.

 

As Matts pointed out, our players were worked into the ground by Moyes yet we finished strongly almost every season. Hard work brings fitness, match practice brings sharpness. We need our big game players to hit the ground running this season we're gonna have to scrap for every point if we're looking to even equal next seasons efforts not pussy footing around our key players.

 

Get them fit and get them on the pitch doing what they're paid to do.

 

Things like this is what makes me say the jury is out on Martinez for me.

 

Then you can also look at the cost of fatigue. Mentally and physically. Cortisol plays a massive factor.

[StevO]

And he is the manager and he knows a lot more than what I do but I just don't buy into this world cup rest time shite. If other players can do it ours can as well. If Sanchez for example was an exception to the rule you could just say he's a naturally fit lad who's a bit of a freak of nature fitness wise but almost all players who went the world cup seem to be playing regularly in friendlies Haf so why not ours. When I say almost all I can't obviously say I know everyone but certainly the higher profile players in our league and the big european leagues seem to have been playing. Is Martinez being over catious with ours? I'm not an expert but looking at other teams they seem to have their world cup players firing and ready.

 

Again this to me points to our really , in my opinion disastrous and unorganised pre season.

 

As Matts pointed out, our players were worked into the ground by Moyes yet we finished strongly almost every season. Hard work brings fitness, match practice brings sharpness. We need our big game players to hit the ground running this season we're gonna have to scrap for every point if we're looking to even equal next seasons efforts not pussy footing around our key players.

 

Get them fit and get them on the pitch doing what they're paid to do.

 

Things like this is what makes me say the jury is out on Martinez for me.

 

I think we'll only really find out towards the end of the season. As you say with Sanchez, he is back training but not playing 90 mins yet, where the German players at Arsenal have only come back to training this week I believe.

If come the end fo the season Rom and Kev are still flying then Martinez will have been right to rest them, time will tell I guess.

[Paddock]

 

I think we'll only really find out towards the end of the season. As you say with Sanchez, he is back training but not playing 90 mins yet, where the German players at Arsenal have only come back to training this week I believe.

If come the end fo the season Rom and Kev are still flying then Martinez will have been right to rest them, time will tell I guess.

Spot on and there is also a very good reason why he is manager and nobody here isn't.

 

It's all about opinions. I have mine but I can also say if I'm wrong I'm happy to hold my hands up and admit it. I have nagging doubts over Martinez but I genuinely hope I'm wrong about him.

 

I think I can speak for everyone when I say we just want what's best for Everton and whether we like what's going on or not we just have to trust the club to get it right and to be fair up to now (since Martinez took over) they have.

[Romey 1878]

Lukaku & Mirallas barely featured at the WC. It's ridiculous.

[Shukes]

Lukaku & Mirallas barely featured at the WC. It's ridiculous.

That's the point... No match fitness ;-)

[Bailey]

Lukaku & Mirallas barely featured at the WC. It's ridiculous.

But they were still training most days. Playing 90 mins is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Romey 1878]

But they were still training most days. Playing 90 mins is just the tip of the iceberg.

Wow, training! Well, fuck me, that surely deserves a couple of months off. It's not so ridiculous after all when you factor in training. My bad.

 

Edit - not actually being sarcastic towards you really, Bailey, just the whole scenario.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Romey 1878

[Bailey]

Wow, training! Well, fuck me, that surely deserves a couple of months off. It's not so ridiculous after all when you factor in training. My bad.

 

Edit - not actually being sarcastic towards you really, Bailey, just the whole scenario.

 

The point is that the players are still on the go. The players would have been on the go for 12 months straight almost which if its me and you in our daily grind, it doesnt make much difference because we can probably operate on 75% all year round. If I had more time off, I would be much sharper but my overall performance at work isnt as important as a footballers and it isnt the public eye. Imagine if your every action at work was scrutinized by millions. In any profession, if you want someone to be at their best, which they need to be in football, then they need to have their periods of rest more for mental reasons than anything.

 

You only have to look at other sports, especially individual sports to see how professionals target specific events and build themselves into the bigger tournaments etc. They dont go out and play week in week out, they have a break, freshen up and then taper their programme to peak at a specific target. Its more difficult for football for obvious reasons but if it was a case of just turning up each tournament and playing then they would be playing week in week out.

 

Personally I would have thought that both players would have had enough time to unwind, freshen up and get back at it but Martinez has other plans and if he thinks he can get Lukaku and Mirallas match fit and in the right frame of mind for the new season without any games under their belt then who I am to question that. It will be interesting to see if they do start and if they do, what type of impact they have, but I suspect we will see the benefits over the course of the season even if we might not necessarily be able to measure it.

 

I wonder how Pearson is approaching the game too. He doesnt know whether he is going to have the pace, strength and directness of Lukaku and Mirallas or the more thoughtful and smarter movement of Naismith and Pienaar, or even a combination of the two.

[markjazzbassist]

Let the lads rest otherwise it's arsenal all over again. Players get rushed back and wilshere, ox, Walcott, etc spend half the season injured.

 

I would rather have rom and kev and seamie or 36 matches instead of 19.

[StevO]

Everyone is entitled to a break from their job, just because it's a very nice and well paid job makes no difference. It's just the rest of us can walk straight back into work, they need to get fit again after a few weeks off.

[djsunyc]

i'm a novice and still trying to learn the sport and the players but i am not sure if it was a conditioning thing or not but rom doesn't seem to have a good touch out there. he's big and intimidating and looks like he can score but seems like he needs to be set up to take full advantage. he can't seem to control the ball and create on his own.

 

if that's the case, who is our best creator? was it ross?

[MikeO]

i'm a novice and still trying to learn the sport and the players but i am not sure if it was a conditioning thing or not but rom doesn't seem to have a good touch out there. he's big and intimidating and looks like he can score but seems like he needs to be set up to take full advantage. he can't seem to control the ball and create on his own.

 

if that's the case, who is our best creator? was it ross?

 

You learn quick (although it does happen from time to time) .

 

Best "creator" would certainly not be Ross; Baines and Mirallas would be the prime candidates.

[JoeQuince]

 

You learn quick (although it does happen from time to time) .

 

Best "creator" would certainly not be Ross; Baines and Mirallas would be the prime candidates.

I would put Peanuts in there for a "best creator" award, as well.

 

Also, Ross may not be our best creator, if we define that along the lines of someone who creates chances with incisive passes or by getting to the byline and whipping crosses in, but he might be our most influential player, with the way he is able to create opportunities by running with the ball and drawing defenders out of position (much like Mirallas does by cutting in from the wing).

[MC11]

Mirallas stats from last season prove he's our most creative player. Most assists and also created 61 chances 13 more than Baines.

[Bailey]

Yeh Mirallas is our most consistent producer. I would say that Pienaar is pretty low assists wise because his final ball/shit is generally crap. The work he does in the build up, generally with Baines, is excellent however.

[Hafnia]

Miguel likes mirallas I think... I do. I actually think he would be a good second striker.

[Shukes]

Yeh Mirallas is our most consistent producer. I would say that Pienaar is pretty low assists wise because his final ball/shit is generally crap. The work he does in the build up, generally with Baines, is excellent however.

Pienaar usually makes the play and gives the ball to Baines who gets the assist. Stats misrepresent players.

[Hafnia]

Pienaar is an excellent creative player, he doesn't always get the final assist ball. Very skewed stats. Key player when he's on his game.

[MC11]

Miguel likes mirallas I think... I do. I actually think he would be a good second striker.

Best player and I don't care if I'm a broken record about him he's absolute quality and streaks ahead of our other players going forward!

[MikeO]

Pienaar is an excellent creative player, he doesn't always get the final assist ball. Very skewed stats. Key player when he's on his game.

 

He did yesterday.

 

By accident .

[MikeO]

Best player and I don't care if I'm a broken record about him he's absolute quality and streaks ahead of our other players going forward!

 

I've never seen him do that; don't think I've even seen him take his shirt off to be honest.