Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Bailey]

Can you explain why he hasn't made an many headed clearances as jagielka or as many tackles as gana?

I hope you are fishing!

[Matt]

I hope you are fishing!

i highly doubt it

[Hafnia]

Or as many saves as steklenburg

[Shukes]

Think he is pointing out that in a low scoring team it's likely for the main forward to have the most to do with goals.

 

Just as the goalkeeper is likely to make most saves and the centre half likely to make the most headers.

 

Yet those players don't get the same admiration.

 

But the post does show that Lukaku is productive as a forward. Just wish we could swap his goals for points.

[Matt]

Think he is pointing out that in a low scoring team it's likely for the main forward to have the most to do with goals.

 

Just as the goalkeeper is likely to make most saves and the centre half likely to make the most headers.

 

Yet those players don't get the same admiration.

 

But the post does show that Lukaku is productive as a forward. Just wish we could swap his goals for points.

if I had a point, it'd be he's very productive for someone who's lazy and doesn't work for the team.

[Hafnia]

if I had a point, it'd be he's very productive for someone who's lazy and doesn't work for the team.

You could cover less than 1km per game and score goals the way lukaku has scored his this season. The majority have all been finishes from crosses - if not all. So his goal record has absolutely nothing to do with working for the team.

 

Like Redknapp said - he scored 2 goals against watford and didn't have to work for them.

 

Let's not start pretending he puts work in. He's the laziest person on the team.

[Matt]

You could cover less than 1km per game and score goals the way lukaku has scored his this season. The majority have all been finishes from crosses - if not all. So his goal record has absolutely nothing to do with working for the team.

 

Like Redknapp said - he scored 2 goals against watford and didn't have to work for them.

 

Let's not start pretending he puts work in. He's the laziest person on the team.

Yet still the most productive.

[Hafnia]

Yet still the most productive.

Productive? Ganas tackles aren't productive? Barry's interceptions aren't productive?

 

Lukaku scores the most goals.... lets not classify him as the most productive player. Unless you think tackling isn't productive etc.

 

You expect Rom to score the most goals. If he didn't that would be a huge issue. It's the only thing that warrants his selection. The only thing

[Matt]

Productive? Ganas tackles aren't productive? Barry's interceptions aren't productive?

 

Lukaku scores the most goals.... lets not classify him as the most productive player. Unless you think tackling isn't productive etc.

 

You expect Rom to score the most goals. If he didn't that would be a huge issue. It's the only thing that warrants his selection. The only thing

Don't know why I bother, you know exactly what I mean.

 

Points are gained by scoring goals and winning games, that's what I mean by productive. Since I was referencing the goal and assist ratio stat, it should've been very clear and I imagine it was to 99% of the forum. You'd have to just argue for arguments sake or are trying to twist the debate around to a direction where you can take swipes at Rom to see it any other way

[Shukes]

Guys take a step back.

You are both right here!

 

Lukaku is our most productive goal and assist machine.

He isn't our best player or our best performer!

 

He is lazy

He has shit control

He is a good finisher

He is a nice guy

He isn't good with the media

It does soins like he is good in the dressing room, which I don't know if anyone ever notices?

He always seems to be involved in joking aroins with teammates and banter.

[pete0]

Last 20 mins he was goosed, (and then done a great job as a target man). How did he get so tired if he's lazy?

[Matt]

Last 20 mins he was goosed, (and then done a great job as a target man). How did he get so tired if he's lazy?

I assume the argument that he's not fit enough is coming...

[pete0]

I assume the argument that he's not fit enough is coming...

I hope not, I think it was Haf who pointed out he's dropped his muscle mass and he's now more athletic.

You can see his heat map on the Os. I thought this would be a game that people would use to say he can do it. Similar to the Liverpool one. Of not better as he won loads of header, Costa like performance.

[Hafnia]

I hope not, I think it was Haf who pointed out he's dropped his muscle mass and he's now more athletic.

You can see his heat map on the Os. I thought this would be a game that people would use to say he can do it. Similar to the Liverpool one. Of not better as he won loads of header, Costa like performance.

 

Barkley has lost weight - Lukaku no. Not for me.

 

Horses for courses - Rom looks like someone who runs less than any other outfield player in the league. If he ran more he would be fitter - simple.

 

Pete - he won 40% of his headers - the same percentage as 5ft 7 Valencia... against the same defenders. His pass percentage was 45% - in short he gives away or loses the ball more times than he wins it or successfully passes it.... not good is it. Valencia pass percentage was 75%

 

I'm sorry the stats don't fit your opinion but that's what they say.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Hafnia

[Matt]

 

Barkley has lost weight - Lukaku no. Not for me.

 

Horses for courses - Rom looks like someone who runs less than any other outfield player in the league. If he ran more he would be fitter - simple.

 

Pete - he won 40% of his headers - the same percentage as 5ft 7 Valencia... against the same defenders. His pass percentage was 45% - in short he gives away or loses the ball more times than he wins it or successfully passes it.... not good is it. Valencia pass percentage was 75%

 

I'm sorry the stats don't fit your opinion but that's what they say.

Funny, I could say the same,

[markjazzbassist]

I think he still has another 2-3 years on his contract and he's still youngish so I don't see him making the move this upcoming summer. I think next campaign well have some better pieces around him and he will score 30 and then he will be off which would be fine, but I just don't see teams being in for him this summer.

[Hafnia]

I will make my final statement on him because I really can't be bothered much more:-

 

• He is lazy - stats prove it. Ran the least lm per game of any outfield player last year and is bottom 3 this year,
• He has a poor touch and pass ability - stats prove it. 45% pass completion the other night, was something similar against man united poss 40% in one half
• He does score goals - averages 14 premier league goals per season.
• He talks too much and brings unwanted headlines - divisive to say the least

 

In summary - the lad can get sold for a pretty sum of money based on his goal stats. If a team wants to foot the bill for that then I will be ecstatic. What they will be buying is a natural finisher who the team has to carry. If they expect him to use the impressive frame to do things that you would expect from someone with that athleticism and potential then forget it.

 

For me he is ideal for Man City to use in the way they did for Djecko - last 20 minutes to nick a goal. Alternatively play for a big team in a poor league where he can be carried and have the luxury of not pressing etc - PSG for example.

 

I've seen enough from the league this year to see that hard working lone forwards are the order of the day - this doesn't mean they are Marcus Bent or Dennis Straq... this means they can be Harry Kane, Diego Costa, Divock Origi, Firminio, Lallana, Ibrahimovic,

 

Lets get the money in, sell him and let him stop disrupting our club by making out he's doing us a favour by being here. I love Everton and I truly believe we will be better off as a "team" with a team player/s up front. Not a passenger who demands service for his stats.

[Shukes]

Gotta leave this thread alone for a while.

Haf you are trying to make your point, but all that is happening is people are defending him more rather than objectively.

 

I want Rom to stay as I do t see many better goal scorers available.

 

But to say he worked hard is utterly ridiculous! He was average at the very best. But in his defence he DID win a few headers and did press better. Not to the level that he should, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

The issue is that this thread is a loaded thread and not an objective one....from both sides.

There are the posters that are still objective....but the regulars are either anti Lukaku or anti Hafnia.

 

What was once a very informative thread is turning into a slug fest between two warring factions.

 

Ridiculous statements that Lukaku is only lazy because of bad service? What? Say that again?

Or Lukaku can finish but isn't productive? Again...what?

 

Step back guys and get back to reality!

[Shukes]

Oh and by the way....

I'm always right so dont bother disagreeing!

[Hafnia]

Gotta leave this thread alone for a while.

Haf you are trying to make your point, but all that is happening is people are defending him more rather than objectively.

 

I want Rom to stay as I do t see many better goal scorers available.

 

But to say he worked hard is utterly ridiculous! He was average at the very best. But in his defence he DID win a few headers and did press better. Not to the level that he should, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

The issue is that this thread is a loaded thread and not an objective one....from both sides.

There are the posters that are still objective....but the regulars are either anti Lukaku or anti Hafnia.

 

What was once a very informative thread is turning into a slug fest between two warring factions.

 

Ridiculous statements that Lukaku is only lazy because of bad service? What? Say that again?

Or Lukaku can finish but isn't productive? Again...what?

 

Step back guys and get back to reality!

 

 

shukes - it must be frustrating for his most loyal of supporters because of recent more and more is being questioned of him - the media worm well and truly has turned.

 

That media worm is probably the most slowest and disrespectful one there is when it comes to Everton - its almost like pundits and journos have a quick look at raw stats and say "oh yeah - he's quite good"... I mean they were still going on about baines and pienaar as a force months after we knew that team had cottoned on how to shut them down.

 

Lukaku puts himself out there to be appraised with his endless interviews and pimping to other clubs - so the lad has to take it on the chin.

 

Jamie Redknapp and Carragher have had him sussed and are calling him out, Redknapps old fella had him nailed a while back - then again he had worked with Adebuyor so could probably identify these traits. Le Saux and Niall Quinn have both questioned his attitude and willingness for the team... all despite him scoring goals eh.... who'd have thought it.

 

It may stem from Koeman hinting at his lack of pressing - I am thinking that Koeman may actually have him sold in Jan. A school of thought is that he has been trying to inadvertently sell him buy raising his profile

[Shukes]

I agree with 90% of what you say about him

I see it, I really do. He frustrates the hell out of me and I shout at him twice as much as any player in our squad.

 

But I also see that used in the right way in the right team, there is a very valuable player there.

 

He is lazy and does talk to much about his own belief in himself...I hate that about him. But I also recognise the importance of having that self belief.

 

What I do see is that even if he hasn't worked for his goals....just like Watford when he was one of the worst players on the pitch....he seems to have that knack of being in the right place.

 

Now this doesn't make up for his weaknesses by any means, but it is an asset. If we could turn Lukaku into a hard working dedicated Everton player , to add to his goal scoring prowess... then surely we would have some player on our hands.

 

Disclaimer:

I am not in any way saying we can turn him into that player, but much the same as Barkley... there is a chance.

[Bailey]

The funny thing is, I don't think anyone on here is Roms biggest fan, I think they recognise he has good points and bad points and that like most players you have to take the rough with the smooth.

 

The reason Haf gets such a response is because of his arguments. One rule for one and then another rule for a different player. He fails to take context into account in with some stats and then uses it to his advantage in others (which would make you a good lawyer!).

 

My personal opinion is that we are a better team with Lukaku in it. Simple as that.

[MikeO]

I will make my final statement on him because I really can't be bothered much more:-

 

• He is lazy - stats prove it. Ran the least lm per game of any outfield player last year and is bottom 3 this year,
• He has a poor touch and pass ability - stats prove it. 45% pass completion the other night, was something similar against man united poss 40% in one half
• He does score goals - averages 14 premier league goals per season.
• He talks too much and brings unwanted headlines - divisive to say the least

 

In summary - the lad can get sold for a pretty sum of money based on his goal stats. If a team wants to foot the bill for that then I will be ecstatic. What they will be buying is a natural finisher who the team has to carry. If they expect him to use the impressive frame to do things that you would expect from someone with that athleticism and potential then forget it.

 

For me he is ideal for Man City to use in the way they did for Djecko - last 20 minutes to nick a goal. Alternatively play for a big team in a poor league where he can be carried and have the luxury of not pressing etc - PSG for example.

 

I've seen enough from the league this year to see that hard working lone forwards are the order of the day - this doesn't mean they are Marcus Bent or Dennis Straq... this means they can be Harry Kane, Diego Costa, Divock Origi, Firminio, Lallana, Ibrahimovic,

 

Lets get the money in, sell him and let him stop disrupting our club by making out he's doing us a favour by being here. I love Everton and I truly believe we will be better off as a "team" with a team player/s up front. Not a passenger who demands service for his stats.

 

 

 

 

shukes - it must be frustrating for his most loyal of supporters because of recent more and more is being questioned of him - the media worm well and truly has turned.

 

That media worm is probably the most slowest and disrespectful one there is when it comes to Everton - its almost like pundits and journos have a quick look at raw stats and say "oh yeah - he's quite good"... I mean they were still going on about baines and pienaar as a force months after we knew that team had cottoned on how to shut them down.

 

Lukaku puts himself out there to be appraised with his endless interviews and pimping to other clubs - so the lad has to take it on the chin.

 

Jamie Redknapp and Carragher have had him sussed and are calling him out, Redknapps old fella had him nailed a while back - then again he had worked with Adebuyor so could probably identify these traits. Le Saux and Niall Quinn have both questioned his attitude and willingness for the team... all despite him scoring goals eh.... who'd have thought it.

 

It may stem from Koeman hinting at his lack of pressing - I am thinking that Koeman may actually have him sold in Jan. A school of thought is that he has been trying to inadvertently sell him buy raising his profile

 

Can't help yourself Haf . I'll be in a box before you make your final contribution to this thread and you'll be an angry old man telling the next generation or two what a lazy bastard we once had up front.

[Hafnia]

The funny thing is, I don't think anyone on here is Roms biggest fan, I think they recognise he has good points and bad points and that like most players you have to take the rough with the smooth.

 

The reason Haf gets such a response is because of his arguments. One rule for one and then another rule for a different player. He fails to take context into account in with some stats and then uses it to his advantage in others (which would make you a good lawyer!).

 

My personal opinion is that we are a better team with Lukaku in it. Simple as that.

 

there is no exceptions for other players whatsoever. If Barkley has a lazy game I call him out for it. I even said the other night he has to close players down better - no excuse.

 

Barkley will be the main benefactor when we either sell lukaku or lukaku starts running more and of greater intelligence. I haven't seen the lad run as much as he did since his first 5 or 6 games for us and guess what - he and barkley looked very good together.

 

Like shukes said - I have argued objectively and the responses have been born out of anti haf sentiment. Even in light of recent damming statistics and that's all you need to know about that.

 

Either way I'm relieved. The spotlight is well and truly on the lad as all the media have been alerted his work shy nature. It can only light the required fire under his backside - along with the fact that Valencia is actually showing him how a forward needs to work.

 

 

there's another one mike.... just when I thought I was out they pull me back in.....

Edited December 15, 2016 by Hafnia

[Matt]

The funny thing is, I don't think anyone on here is Roms biggest fan, I think they recognise he has good points and bad points and that like most players you have to take the rough with the smooth.

 

The reason Haf gets such a response is because of his arguments. One rule for one and then another rule for a different player. He fails to take context into account in with some stats and then uses it to his advantage in others (which would make you a good lawyer!).

 

My personal opinion is that we are a better team with Lukaku in it. Simple as that.

bingo

[markjazzbassist]

http://www.espnfc.us/english-premier-league/23/blog/post/3019599/firmino-and-lukaku-occupy-opposite-poles-of-the-modern-striker-spectrum

 

interesting comparison between firmino and lukaku and the modern false 9 and a more traditional 9. Some telling stats in there (for and against Lukaku)

[Hafnia]

http://www.espnfc.us/english-premier-league/23/blog/post/3019599/firmino-and-lukaku-occupy-opposite-poles-of-the-modern-striker-spectrum

 

interesting comparison between firmino and lukaku and the modern false 9 and a more traditional 9. Some telling stats in there (for and against Lukaku)

It's a great article and for me the best justification yet for some fans to rid themselves of this "golden boot" obsessed mentality.

 

The ability to win the football and keep it - passing accurately and moving intelligently is key to winning football games.... unsurprisingly liverpool despite a shaky defence and awful goalkeeper have done this.

 

What's changed for Liverpool? The midfield? No. Henderson isn't a patch on gana, a good athlete and that's about it. They have dropped their most talented finisher - sturridge. A more clinical finisher than Rom IMO but has the same workshy tendencies.

 

Instead they have gone for a high energy "share the goals round" approach, and it's working. They have essentially dropped benteke and sturridge from their plans. Two forwards who have banged in over 20 league goals each in a season. One playing in a poor villa side.

 

Firminho and Co may never bang in 20 goals a season each but I think they will be playing champions league next year after getting runners up this year.

 

That's what I want for Everton, I want to see the type of football they play and how they work for each other and win matches.

[Aidan]

The lad must be 15/16 stone. Granted his work rate isn't the best but it's never going to be anywhere near someone's who is a fraction of his weight.

 

So he isn't the best at defending, he isn't the best on the ball and he struggles to hold up the ball well.

 

He's not that type of player though. Nobody is having a slice at Gana because he doesn't score enough goals are they?

 

He has one job, to put the ball in the back of the net and he is very, very good at that, one of the best in the world.

 

People want him to be more than he is, it's very unrealistic. If he did have every attribute what people wished him to have, we would have never had his services here at Everton.

[StevO]

Anyone watch Soccer AM and see that superior striker guys take on closing down?

 

The forward presses towards the defender on the ball, no intention of actually winning it. Just to make him play the ball to the full back quicker.

 

The full back should be given enough space to control the ball before the winger shows him inside, again, not to win the ball.

 

Here is the point.

 

The winger then can only play to the centre midfielder as the forward is covering the centre half and the winger is blocking the pass up the line. Only alternative is a hoof and we more than likely win the ball back.

 

You should have two midfielders press the player receiving the ball in the middle intensely. At this point one of them should win the ball.

 

The forward has followed the centre half so there should be some space for him to run into on the counter when one of your two midfielders has won the ball, you know have a strong counter attack ready to go.

 

I just thought it was interesting, especially that he just wants the forward to put a little pressure on his man. Different from what I would have expected anyway.

[Aidan]

Anyone watch Soccer AM and see that superior striker guys take on closing down?

 

The forward presses towards the defender on the ball, no intention of actually winning it. Just to make him play the ball to the full back quicker.

 

The full back should be given enough space to control the ball before the winger shows him inside, again, not to win the ball.

 

Here is the point.

 

The winger then can only play to the centre midfielder as the forward is covering the centre half and the winger is blocking the pass up the line. Only alternative is a hoof and we more than likely win the ball back.

 

You should have two midfielders press the player receiving the ball in the middle intensely. At this point one of them should win the ball.

 

The forward has followed the centre half so there should be some space for him to run into on the counter when one of your two midfielders has won the ball, you know have a strong counter attack ready to go.

 

I just thought it was interesting, especially that he just wants the forward to put a little pressure on his man. Different from what I would have expected anyway.

I did see that, and all along I thought that is pretty much what rom does anyway