Longest Thread For Sport Talk

[Sibdane]

38 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

So a man is punished heavily (and quite rightly so as well), while I woman was punished less heavily (also rightly, because her offence was less), but for some reason people think Williams’ punishment was sexist... Nope, not having it. It’s just Serena playing the sore loser card, as she’s prone to do because she’s a big baby. 

Great tennis player but an absolute horror of a person. 

I don't think she's a bad person, but when things aren't going her way on the court she tends to lose it and act like a child. 

I'll add that I also don't think her punishment is sexist. 

[Hafnia]

They really do need to start clamping down on this sort of shit. I have never been sexist but the whole feminist movement and stuff like what Serena has just done puts me on alert.  I voiced my concerns about her behaviour on Twitter and was called sexist? Ffs... I was more arsed about the girl who won the US Open being completely overlooked. 

[pete0]

3 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

 

John McEnroe is himself a caricature, but as polarizing as he was, few said he was disgracing the sport. People equally loved or hated his lack of decorum, but it was entertainment and he was seen as a passionate if irritating figure. 

When Williams throws a fit, no one finds it entertaining. Her fits will never be in a reel of tennis players behaving badly. Instead they will be dissected by every sports publication and most non-sports publications, talked about in soccer forums and at dinner tables. If you can’t see the difference between the two, I can’t help you:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1248179002

So yeah, Johnny boy, I’m serious.

https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/gerry-williams-mcenroe-was-a-disgrace-28444187.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/24/sports/mcenroe-is-fined-1500-and-warned-of-being-suspended.html

Second link says it was front page news that McEnroe was a disgrace/brat. 

He was front page news and the first player at Wimbledon to be punished/fined. Hard to see how Williams has it any worse? 

[nyblue23]

13 hours ago, hafnia said:

Is it just me that would be more offended by being called a thief?

Than being called a gypsy shit and having your physical well-being threatened? I’m assuming you’re not a traveler, and I also know you well enough from your arguments here to know your bravado probably protects you from feeling physicality threatened by verbal abuse, so I’ll say it’s not just you but it’s not everyone. And regardless, “gypsy” is a racist term, especially when connected to “shit,” and making ostensibly physical threats towards a referee would be met by a ban in any fucking sport in the world.

[nyblue23]

12 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

So a man is punished heavily (and quite rightly so as well), while I woman was punished less heavily (also rightly, because her offence was less), but for some reason people think Williams’ punishment was sexist... Nope, not having it. It’s just Serena playing the sore loser card, as she’s prone to do because she’s a big baby. 

Great tennis player but an absolute horror of a person. 

Pretty light punishment if you ask me: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/sports/tennis/us-open-fabio-fognini.amp.html

 

[nyblue23]

11 hours ago, sibdane said:

I don't think she's a bad person, but when things aren't going her way on the court she tends to lose it and act like a child. 

I'll add that I also don't think her punishment is sexist. 

So does every superstar in any sport. Lebron? Curry? Bryant? Brady? Bell? Clemens? Ronaldo? Neymar?

Every superstar who is used to winning reacts poorly to losing when officiating calls go against them. It’s not a new phenomenon, and I don’t think anyone faces the critique that Williams consistently faces.

Do I condone her behavior? No, but I don’t think it’s even on the level of a lot of dudes who don’t get shit for being so arrogant. She deserves a certain level of arrogance. She’s dominated a sport like few others have in the history of their respective sports. Even footballers like Pogba and Neymar who are flashes in pan in their sport get away with less criticism than she does.

[nyblue23]

10 hours ago, pete0 said:

https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/gerry-williams-mcenroe-was-a-disgrace-28444187.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/24/sports/mcenroe-is-fined-1500-and-warned-of-being-suspended.html

Second link says it was front page news that McEnroe was a disgrace/brat. 

He was front page news and the first player at Wimbledon to be punished/fined. Hard to see how Williams has it any worse? 

Cool articles. One is an opinion from 30 years after the fact and the other is a “warning” with no punishment. Get out of here with that shit. Serena’s behavior is suddenly an international phenomenon, yet she didn’t use a single word of profanity, didn’t break her equipment, didn’t threaten the umpire, and corrected the crowd when they booed the result. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, nyblue23 said:

Cool articles. One is an opinion from 30 years after the fact and the other is a “warning” with no punishment. Get out of here with that shit. Serena’s behavior is suddenly an international phenomenon, yet she didn’t use a single word of profanity, didn’t break her equipment, didn’t threaten the umpire, and corrected the crowd when they booed the result. 

Still don't see how you are explaining that McEnroe was treated better because he was white. Front page news compared to a cartoon. In 30 years time will p people mention this final when they talk about Williams, probably not. 

[Romey 1878]

3 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

Cool articles. One is an opinion from 30 years after the fact and the other is a “warning” with no punishment. Get out of here with that shit. Serena’s behavior is suddenly an international phenomenon, yet she didn’t use a single word of profanity, didn’t break her equipment, didn’t threaten the umpire, and corrected the crowd when they booed the result. 

She smashed her racket, which was one of the (three) code violations she was punished for.

Also, I must have forgotten that Nick Krygios has a vagina between his legs that he's been keeping secret. That idiot keeps on getting punished for his meltdowns, so I don't see why Williams shouldn't get punished as well. It's not like this is the first time, is it? She's even threatened the job of an umpire before now.

From where I'm standing she's got no grounds for complaint at all, and throwing the word sexism out there is just cheap. Sexism is a very real thing, in sport and the wider world, and she does the cause no good by trying to make this about sexism. She did wrong, end of story. Own it instead of making herself look like the sore loser she is.

That's my last on it.

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

Than being called a gypsy shit and having your physical well-being threatened? I’m assuming you’re not a traveler, and I also know you well enough from your arguments here to know your bravado probably protects you from feeling physicality threatened by verbal abuse, so I’ll say it’s not just you but it’s not everyone. And regardless, “gypsy” is a racist term, especially when connected to “shit,” and making ostensibly physical threats towards a referee would be met by a ban in any fucking sport in the world.

What has gypsy got to do with being accused of being sexist? I was stating that someone calling me a thief as opposed to sexist would bother me more....

 

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

So does every superstar in any sport. Lebron? Curry? Bryant? Brady? Bell? Clemens? Ronaldo? Neymar?

Every superstar who is used to winning reacts poorly to losing when officiating calls go against them. It’s not a new phenomenon, and I don’t think anyone faces the critique that Williams consistently faces.

Do I condone her behavior? No, but I don’t think it’s even on the level of a lot of dudes who don’t get shit for being so arrogant. She deserves a certain level of arrogance. She’s dominated a sport like few others have in the history of their respective sports. Even footballers like Pogba and Neymar who are flashes in pan in their sport get away with less criticism than she does.

Jack Nicklaus.... most successful golfer ever = true gent in defeat. Quietened crowds down in order to let Tom Watson putt out to beat him.  Allowed Tony Jacklin a halve as he wouldn't want him to miss the putt. 

Paulo dicanio picked a ball out the air instead of scoring when Paul Gerrard was flat out when he could have scored.

Adam Gilchrist walked when given not out... cos he knew he clipped the ball.

Michael Phelps - stepped down from 4 x 100 medley to allow a team mate a medal. 

Andy Roddick- called a serve good from an opponent when referee didn't .. opponent won in the end. 

Top and bottom of it is Serena is a spoilt brat. Over indulged and reacts badly when things do not go her way.  I wouldn't mind all that if she wasn't such a sanctimonious diva. She's no role model. 

She threatened to shove a tennis ball down a female line judges throat!!! Would she have said that to a man? No she called him a thief instead.... he will never get to go on "her court" again.

She can fuck right off. And join the likes fogostini (or whatever he's called) and kyriagos. They belong in the company of each other. Yes.... male and female. 

[MikeO]

9 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

And regardless, “gypsy” is a racist term, especially when connected to “shit,”

I don't know if this is a difference between American/UK use but in no way is "gypsy" a racist term over here. If you tag "shit" on the end of it then that's obviously another matter but that goes for any personal description.

[Hafnia]

5 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I don't know if this is a difference between American/UK use but in no way is "gypsy" a racist term over here. If you tag "shit" on the end of it then that's obviously another matter but that goes for any personal description.

I got called a black haired prick once.... strange one. 

[MikeO]

10 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Jack Nicklaus.

Paulo dicanio

Adam Gilchrist 

Michael Phelps 

Andy Roddick

Gary Lineker never getting a single card in his career is another one.

[Hafnia]

1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Gary Lineker never getting a single card in his career is another one.

It's quite clear that Serena believes she is bigger than her sport.... a bit like Lance Armstrong did. 

The same phoney role model bullshit... The faux offence when questioned, the sane intimidatory bully type behaviours. 

[MikeO]

Just now, hafnia said:

I got called a black haired prick once.... strange one. 

I was a ginge so that was an everyday occurrence 

[rubecula]

some f my best mates over the years have been ginger nuts Mike,  no shame in that,  apart from being ginger nuts of course  lol lol

 

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, rubecula said:

some f my best mates over the years have been ginger nuts Mike,  no shame in that,  apart from being ginger nuts of course  lol lol

That's it though isn'tt it, nowadays people would be running to the press if called a ginger-nut while for me, that and worse was water off a duck's back.

[markjazzbassist]

37 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Gary Lineker never getting a single card in his career is another one.

never knew that mike, that is truly remarkable.  wow.

[Sibdane]

12 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

So does every superstar in any sport. Lebron? Curry? Bryant? Brady? Bell? Clemens? Ronaldo? Neymar?

Every superstar who is used to winning reacts poorly to losing when officiating calls go against them. It’s not a new phenomenon, and I don’t think anyone faces the critique that Williams consistently faces.

Do I condone her behavior? No, but I don’t think it’s even on the level of a lot of dudes who don’t get shit for being so arrogant. She deserves a certain level of arrogance. She’s dominated a sport like few others have in the history of their respective sports. Even footballers like Pogba and Neymar who are flashes in pan in their sport get away with less criticism than she does.

So the official who made the correct calls is sexist because officials in the past didn't make the right calls?

I'm not buying that.  

[Hafnia]

54 minutes ago, sibdane said:

So the official who made the correct calls is sexist because officials in the past didn't make the right calls?

I'm not buying that.  

It's an unfortunate situation. I seen all this with Lance Armstrong and to a lesser degree Tiger Woods.   Fans who just can't accept that a person they held in high esteem can be flawed. 

[MikeO]

7 minutes ago, hafnia said:

It's an unfortunate situation. I seen all this with Lance Armstrong and to a lesser degree Tiger Woods.   Fans who just can't accept that a person they held in high esteem can be flawed. 

From Zidane (moment of madness) to Hansie Cronje (pre-meditated cheating motivated by money) the history of sport is littered with examples. Meanwhile club golfers call penalties on themselves for grounding their club in a bunker seen by nobody else.

[Bill]

As do Snooker players who call a foul against themselves.

 

[rubecula]

6 hours ago, MikeO said:

That's it though isn'ttt it, nowadays people would be running to the press if called a ginger-nut while for me, that and worse was water off a duck's back.

indeed.  I was called a great deal worse when I was a youngster too  by adults as well as kids,  it was not nice  but it was relegated to water off a ducks back.

[nyblue23]

12 hours ago, sibdane said:

So the official who made the correct calls is sexist because officials in the past didn't make the right calls?

I'm not buying that.  

 

11 hours ago, hafnia said:

It's an unfortunate situation. I seen all this with Lance Armstrong and to a lesser degree Tiger Woods.   Fans who just can't accept that a person they held in high esteem can be flawed. 

I don’t give a shit about tennis and I don’t hold Serena Williams in high esteem. I do think that standards of behavior are very different for men and women. Take this article, for example (long read, but quite worth it):

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/565778/

The subtleties of patriarchy are extremely nuanced and not often perceptible, but they’re very strong. We all have very concrete ideas of what “men” and “women” should behave like, and to deny that we have those inclinations is dishonest. Whether you believe those ideas to be okay or correct is a different question, but to deny that we all have different standards is a little blind.

And yeah. It’s easier to hold people who you don’t respect as much to higher standards than people who you see as equals. See every genocide and every form of slavery to ever exist.

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

 

I don’t give a shit about tennis and I don’t hold Serena Williams in high esteem. I do think that standards of behavior are very different for men and women. Take this article, for example (long read, but quite worth it):

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/565778/

The subtleties of patriarchy are extremely nuanced and not often perceptible, but they’re very strong. We all have very concrete ideas of what “men” and “women” should behave like, and to deny that we have those inclinations is dishonest. Whether you believe those ideas to be okay or correct is a different question, but to deny that we all have different standards is a little blind.

And yeah. It’s easier to hold people who you don’t respect as much to higher standards than people who you see as equals. See every genocide and every form of slavery to ever exist.

No one is suggesting that sexism doesn't exist because it absolutely does.

The problem with sexism it that it is over corrected in some areas to the detriment of equality when in other areas of life it is neglected. 

It's like the Rooney Rule.... biggest load of bollocks I've heard. 

Serena Williams has form for doing what she has done.... on this particular day she crossed an umpire who is known to be strict across the board.   She knew she had lost it, she knew she went too far that's why she got all "sporting to her Victor at the end.

I know what I seen and I didn't like it one bit. 

[Romey 1878]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11508963/the-fa-agrees-to-sell-wembley-to-shahid-khan-for-600m

This is going to come back and bite the FA

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11508963/the-fa-agrees-to-sell-wembley-to-shahid-khan-for-600m

This is going to come back and bite the FA

when the world cup qualifying match England needs to win was preceded by a concert and the field is all tore up I think then and only then will they realize what they have done.  in the meantime they will all be taking their envelopes of money and splurging.

[MikeO]

Listening to "live" BBC commentary on Bath v Exeter rugby tonight but also watching Twitter feed; bemused by the fact that the Twitter feed is ahead of the live Beeb coverage.

While I was typing that Exeter got another try/con to put themselves well clear (19-39).

[markjazzbassist]

Monaco sack Leonardo Jardim.  He's still a great manager in my eyes, he was hamstrung by the club selling off their best players every year.  I will be interested to see where he ends up.