Ross Barkley

[Hafnia]

Brett, get real. Barkley for all his talent does not have anywhere near the composure or decision making that Naismith has. I'm a huge Barkley fan but I'm sorry you are talking nonsense.

 

Being a tremendously gifted footballer does not mean you do everything right all the time. Naismith has added an element of steel, graft, and finishing up front.

 

All I read is drop him for Lukaku, drop him when Barkley is back. How's about they prove they can put in a performance like him first?

[Matt]

Stop talking bollocks!

You first

[Hafnia]

Yeah lets see Barkley playing just behind Eto and Lukaku with Mirallas out left and McGeady out right, with John Stones bringing the ball out of defence to give it to Besic who does a zidane spin, plays it to Barkley who runs past 4 players, passes it to Lukaku who holds off 3 players who are using him as a climbing frame and backheels it to Eto who rounds the keeper and puts it in with his head.

 

Oooh yeah, lets drop players like Naismith, they don't do all that stuff. They just give you a minimum level of performance and effort that never seems to disappoint whilst the talented enigmatic players have an off day.

[Matt]

Just a comparison, because I understand Bretts argument even if I disagree with how he makes it

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=35605&season_id=143

http://www.espnfc.com/player/108763/steven-naismith?season=2013

5 goals last season, 2 assists in the league

Point earned by the goals (meaning their goal was decisive pulling level or took us ahead to a winning position) = 7 points (winner vs Chelsea (3), equaliser vs Villa (1),3rd vs Fulham (0), opener vs Arsenal (3), vs Palace (0)

 

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=56987&season_id=143

http://www.espnfc.com/player/152469/ross-barkley?season=2013

6 goals last season, 0 assists in the league

Point earned by the goals (meaning their goal was decisive taking us level or took us ahead to a winning position) = 11 points (equalizer vs Norwich (1), 2nd vs Newcastle (1), second vs Swansea away (3), winner vs Swansea home (3), opener vs Newcastle(3), vs City (0))

 

So whilst Naismith is responsible for 1 more goal, Barkleys goals have been responsible for more points (my scoring system isn't exactly a science here).

 

My point was that Naismith is in form, works for the team more than Barkley does, is more decisive than Barkley is (though thats down to experience) and would not be coming back from injury. I hate when players come back from injury and the in-form player gets dropped. It happened to Naismith last year with Rom coming back from injury. I was also driven mad by Barkley almost stopping attacks with his delays in passing or overly complicating things.

 

They are 2 different players, both with very different skill sets. In all honesty, I'd drop Lukaku before I'd drop Naismith at the moment.

 

edit: sorry, my counting has let me down

Edited September 12, 2014 by Matt

[Hafnia]

Just a comparison, because I understand Bretts argument even if I disagree with how he makes it

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=35605&season_id=143

http://www.espnfc.com/player/108763/steven-naismith?season=2013

5 goals last season, 2 assists in the league

Point earned by the goals (meaning their goal was decisive pulling level or took us ahead to a winning position) = 7 points (winner vs Chelsea (3), equaliser vs Villa (1),3rd vs Fulham (0), opener vs Arsenal (3), vs Palace (0)

 

 

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=56987&season_id=143

http://www.espnfc.com/player/152469/ross-barkley?season=2013

6 goals last season, 0 assists in the league

Point earned by the goals (meaning their goal was decisive taking us level or took us ahead to a winning position) = 11 points (equalizer vs Norwich (1), 2nd vs Newcastle (1), second vs Swansea away (3), winner vs Swansea home (3), opener vs Newcastle(3), vs City (0))

 

So whilst Naismith is responsible for 1 more goal, Barkleys goals have been responsible for more points (my scoring system isn't exactly a science here).

 

My point was that Naismith is in form, works for the team more than Barkley does, is more decisive than Barkley is (though thats down to experience) and would not be coming back from injury. I hate when players come back from injury and the in-form player gets dropped. It happened to Naismith last year with Rom coming back from injury. I was also driven mad by Barkley almost stopping attacks with his delays in passing or overly complicating things.

 

They are 2 different players, both with very different skill sets. In all honesty, I'd drop Lukaku before I'd drop Naismith at the moment.

 

edit: sorry, my counting has let me down

 

Not too sure about getting into the critical goals debate, every goal is critical, lets say Naismith scored a 3rd a gainst Arsenal at 2-0 up, it is highly like that Arsenal would never have had the "go" in them to get those two goals to get the draw. The final result may have been 3-0 and therefore Naismiths goal seen as the icing on the cake and nothing more. Basically at any stage of a game wherethe other team can get a couple, every goal is crucial.

 

What I will say is that when in and around the 18 yard box, Naismith hits the target or tests the keeper more regularly than any of our players. If he had the chance that Barkley did against Arsenal in the FA Cup I would have fancied him to bury it, Ross went for the very top corner.

[Matt]

 

Not too sure about getting into the critical goals debate, every goal is critical, lets say Naismith scored a 3rd a gainst Arsenal at 2-0 up, it is highly like that Arsenal would never have had the "go" in them to get those two goals to get the draw. The final result may have been 3-0 and therefore Naismiths goal seen as the icing on the cake and nothing more. Basically at any stage of a game wherethe other team can get a couple, every goal is crucial.

 

What I will say is that when in and around the 18 yard box, Naismith hits the target or tests the keeper more regularly than any of our players. If he had the chance that Barkley did against Arsenal in the FA Cup I would have fancied him to bury it, Ross went for the very top corner.

It was only to show the difference, but like I said its not a science.

[Romey 1878]

 

Not too sure about getting into the critical goals debate, every goal is critical,

 

I'm going to remember that for if you ever criticise Lukaku for only scoring a goal when we're already leading etc .

[Hafnia]

 

I'm going to remember that for if you ever criticise Lukaku for only scoring a goal when we're already leading etc .

 

nah, goals are goals. Rom has scored vital ones and his ability in front of the net isn't in question, i'm looking for his overall game and ability to be trusted to keep hold of the thing.

[J*A*C*K*E*L*Z]

Why does it have to be naismith vs barkley?

 

Nobody remeber the two combined against city..

 

Naismith lay off barkley screamer... And on the second half barkley had a belter run slipped in naismith and hart made that great save onto the post.

 

So with the two together we could be onto a winner..: lukaku also played in that game

[MikeO]

Why does it have to be naismith vs barkley?

 

Nobody remeber the two combined against city..

 

Naismith lay off barkley screamer... And on the second half barkley had a belter run slipped in naismith and hart made that great save onto the post.

 

So with the two together we could be onto a winner..: lukaku also played in that game

 

And scored.

[Mogsy]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-city-ready-up-transfer-4305155

[Romey 1878]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/22/manchester-city-ross-barkley-homegrown-everton

[Hafnia]

£30m??? Lallana went for £25m. Lazy journalism.

[Romey 1878]

£30m??? Lallana went for £25m. Lazy journalism.

 

Not forgetting that we rejected £30m before he signed his new contract, so why would we accept that this summer?!

[Paddock]

Saying 50 on talk sport

[Hafnia]

Saying 50 on talk sport

 

I heard that too. £50m would make me sit up and listen but in all honesty when we are spending £28m on Lukaku I really don't think it represents a "snatch their hands off" bid.

 

It all depends on Ross, if he can bottle up his magic, get his brain sharper in terms of decision making then he is potentially priceless. But if he keeps getting injuries, struggles with inconsistent form and loses more development time it could represent a smart bit of business.

[Paddock]

 

I heard that too. £50m would make me sit up and listen but in all honesty when we are spending £28m on Lukaku I really don't think it represents a "snatch their hands off" bid.

 

It all depends on Ross, if he can bottle up his magic, get his brain sharper in terms of decision making then he is potentially priceless. But if he keeps getting injuries, struggles with inconsistent form and loses more development time it could represent a smart bit of business.

For 50 million I'd bite their hands off. I have serious concerns Barkley is going to go the same route as Rodwell and fizzle out.

 

I may be wrong and I'm not doubting the lads ability or potential he has both oozing out his ears but I just have a nagging doubt at the back of my mind that he may implode so for 50 million I think we'd be mad to refuse it.

[Bailey]

I would die a little inside if we just sold Barkley off to the highest bidder. The lad is a serious talent, he is a die hard blue and loves the club. These are the players we want to keep. I would much rather we kept him than pay 10 mil for 5 mercenaries to replace him.

[Romey 1878]

I would die a little inside if we just sold Barkley off to the highest bidder. The lad is a serious talent, he is a die hard blue and loves the club. These are the players we want to keep. I would much rather we kept him than pay 10 mil for 5 mercenaries to replace him.

 

This. I think we're missing him a lot more this season than we realise.

[Hafnia]

Its an intersting situation isn't it.... Barkley out and we concede goals by the bucket load.

 

Does he stop other teams committing themselves as much due to his ability to create quick counter attacks? Does this counter threat make teams think twice?

 

Personally I love watching the lad in full flow, some things are worth more than money, he reminds me of the days when we watched Rooney swagger around as a 17 year old.

[Matt]

Its an intersting situation isn't it.... Barkley out and we concede goals by the bucket load.

 

Does he stop other teams committing themselves as much due to his ability to create quick counter attacks? Does this counter threat make teams think twice?

 

Personally I love watching the lad in full flow, some things are worth more than money, he reminds me of the days when we watched Rooney swagger around as a 17 year old.

apart from Newcastle, when has he done that? He usually holds up play with his lack of speed in releasing the ball. Thats his only fault to be honest and something that will improve with experience.

 

I wouldn't sell him for 50m, I honestly don't know how much it would take.

[Hafnia]

apart from Newcastle, when has he done that? He usually holds up play with his lack of speed in releasing the ball. Thats his only fault to be honest and something that will improve with experience.

 

I wouldn't sell him for 50m, I honestly don't know how much it would take.

 

referring to his ability to carry the ball at pace from the back/middle which he does well. Its when he receives the ball in an advanced position with defenders aroung him that he delays passes.

[marcopaulo]

did it against norwich last season too...won us a corner on his own after their corner had just come in

 

 

would we have seen the best of naismith with ross in the team is also another question i think

[markjazzbassist]

no for 50m. i think you guys are on to something here though. barkley tracked back and helped in defense, but the counter threat and also his ball holdup skills allow us to move forwards. some may not like that he spends a lot of time on the ball, but at least he retains it. others on our squad want to get rid of it the second they have it and often give it away.

[MC11]

referring to his ability to carry the ball at pace from the back/middle which he does well. Its when he receives the ball in an advanced position with defenders aroung him that he delays passes.

It's one of the main parts of his game. Picking it up in our half and counter attacking through the middle, carrying the ball forward and driving at the opposition. It's something neither Osman or Naismith can do.

[GoodisonRoad]

It's funny how some people paper over the cracks when it comes to Ross and his decision making because he is one of our own but when it comes to Rom can only praise through gritted teeth and seem to pick only on his flaws because he cost us a lot of money (which was based on his potential). Even though they are both young players with a lot left to learn.

 

Ross isn't a £50m player. He could be though. Same with Rom. He isn't £28m's worth but he could be.. And then some. Think certain people need to remember this when it comes to match days.

 

We all backed Barkley last year when he looked a rabbit in the headlights at times last season in the final third which was reflected in his 0 assists. But I don't remember many people getting on his back because everyone understood he was a kid learning his trade. Same applies to Rom, despite his record.

 

On topic, can't wait to have the lad back. Be a big boost.

[Hafnia]

It's funny how some people paper over the cracks when it comes to Ross and his decision making because he is one of our own but when it comes to Rom can only praise through gritted teeth and seem to pick only on his flaws because he cost us a lot of money (which was based on his potential). Even though they are both young players with a lot left to learn.

 

Ross isn't a £50m player. He could be though. Same with Rom. He isn't £28m's worth but he could be.. And then some. Think certain people need to remember this when it comes to match days.

 

We all backed Barkley last year when he looked a rabbit in the headlights at times last season in the final third which was reflected in his 0 assists. But I don't remember many people getting on his back because everyone understood he was a kid learning his trade. Same applies to Rom, despite his record.

 

On topic, can't wait to have the lad back. Be a big boost.

Decision making is an expected development requirement at the age of 21 and gets better with age. controlling a football and passing it accurately is something that should not be missing at that age.

 

No one criticises roms decision making, just his awful touch.

[GoodisonRoad]

Decision making is an expected development requirement at the age of 21 and gets better with age. controlling a football and passing it accurately is something that should not be missing at that age.

 

No one criticises roms decision making, just his awful touch.

 

Its not missing though Haf, thats sort of my point. Rom has flaws, Ross has flaws. Different flaws, i'll give you that. We all know that Rom's flaw is obviously his touch can let him down. But at times we have seen that his touch has been spot on (See run and pass to Naismith against Arsenal at Goodison a few weeks ago) so he does have it in his locker, its not as if every single game he has the touch of a rapist as per Anichebe.

 

He has had games where he has had everything, we havent seen it yet this season but we have seen glimpses.

 

In my opinion Roms flaws are greatly exaggerated because of his fee. Ross gets the backing because he is one of our own and didnt cost a penny.

 

I'd love to have seen Bonys touch (Who you seem to be such a big fan of) when he was 21. Or Drogba's for that matter. To suggest it wont get better is just wrong.

[Hafnia]

If it ain't there now it ain't gonna be. This is a motor skill that should have been harnessed at a younger age, my guess is that he was so big versus his opponents of a same age it didn't matter.

 

If someone threw tennis balls at me would I get better now? No. In Andre aggassi book he indentified the hours returning high speed balls fired at him as a 10 year old as the reason he was considered the best return of serve in the game. Motor skills peak at a younger age.

[Matt]

So much for practice makes perfect...

 

He may never get a touch like Zidane, but he will learn to get a decent touch.