Ross Barkley

[Hafnia]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/05/roberto-martinez-ross-barkley-everton-contract

Martinez confirmed he was confident Barkley would sign a new contract in Feb 16 but it wasn't going to be discussed till that summer with the other players.  That he was looking to build the team around him. Barkley wanted to stay.... he played his best football under Martinez.   Martinez never made it to the summer.

Koeman picked on barkley and it almost seemed personal - like mourinho on shaw.   Barkley was on £60k...  Koeman started the ball rolling to a debacle that meant we lost a £40m+ asset for peanuts cos he is a bully.  He showed what he is about with niasse and apparently did the same shit at Valencia. 

[StevO]

I’d have loved to see him stay, between mismanagement and abuse from the stands that often left me baffled, I don’t blame him for leaving. 

He will go on to be a very good player, maybe not world class, but don’t doubt how good he could have been for us.

The worst thing to happen to Ross was the flashes of brilliance, they set the standards that he couldn’t hit every week leading to ridiculous expectations. If he didn’t beat two players and put it in the top bin there was booing. If he turned sideways and played a simple pass there were boos. If he lost the ball trying something there was booing. The lad couldn’t win at times. Shame really. 

[pete0]

4 hours ago, hafnia said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/05/roberto-martinez-ross-barkley-everton-contract

Martinez confirmed he was confident Barkley would sign a new contract in Feb 16 but it wasn't going to be discussed till that summer with the other players.  That he was looking to build the team around him. Barkley wanted to stay.... he played his best football under Martinez.   Martinez never made it to the summer.

Koeman picked on barkley and it almost seemed personal - like mourinho on shaw.   Barkley was on £60k...  Koeman started the ball rolling to a debacle that meant we lost a £40m+ asset for peanuts cos he is a bully.  He showed what he is about with niasse and apparently did the same shit at Valencia. 

That's the article I put. 

What do you expect the manager to say. Tell the public he's refusing a contact which only does two things, lower his value and get the fans on his back.

If Ross' head wasn't already thinking elsewhere why would the manager add the bit about the player needing to want be at Everton to be part of the project. 

Also why would we offer other players contacts and not Barkley, Barkley who was starting every week and clearly fancied by the manager. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

That's the article I put. 

What do you expect the manager to say. Tell the public he's refusing a contact which only does two things, lower his value and get the fans on his back.

If Ross' head wasn't already thinking elsewhere why would the manager add the bit about the player needing to want be at Everton to be part of the project. 

Also why would we offer other players contacts and not Barkley, Barkley who was starting every week and clearly fancied by the manager. 

But conversely if the manager said "He doesn't want to sign" you would believe him and not think there was anything more to it???  How many ways do you want it?

What isn'tt beyond dispute is koeman singled him out regularly. The fans gave him shit and he left.  As I said on many occasions - if he was my son and even as an Evertonian I would struggle to advise him to stay.   

[pete0]

39 minutes ago, hafnia said:

But conversely if the manager said "He doesn't want to sign" you would believe him and not think there was anything more to it???  How many ways do you want it?

What isn'tttt beyond dispute is koeman singled him out regularly. The fans gave him shit and he left.  As I said on many occasions - if he was my son and even as an Evertonian I would struggle to advise him to stay.   

No idea what your point is or how it addresses why a manager would add the extra about the player having to want to be here or the club gave other players with more time on their contacts extensions. 

Just like your Alladyce and Lukaku arguments you use anything you can to paint your picture. Most likely Barkley wanted out and Koeman wasn't happy with his work rate. The fans gave him more patience than most and he threw it their face. To use the booh boys is laughable, he's been supported through two injuries by the club and given more minutes than he deserves to help make him a better player as he had potential, potential recognised by the fans who all sang he a diamond. What other player got so much support from the fans rather than a groan when they were poor? What's he given back to the club that supported him? 

[Hafnia]

 

You are saying that the manager isn'tt necessarily telling the truth because that doesn't fit your agenda.   You have absolutely zero credibility to disgruntle anyone's arguments when it comes to matters like this - your gana gueye posts go in a hall of fame of complete and utter delusional toxic bullshit.  Worst player to pull on a blue shirt and you have stuck to that.... laughable.  How can anyone take anything you say as being balanced? 

You are the only person on here who thinks allardyce should have been given time and that's how you like it..... makes you feel special....

Barkley had songs about him being a diamond eh?  Yeah... abusive husbands buy their wives flowers and chocolates - does that mean you ignore the fact that their poor wives are treading on eggshells 90% of the time.  You can ignore the fact that Barkley used to get shouted out as being "fuckin shit you lad" when taking a corner.... that's if you want to.  

[markjazzbassist]

He’s got some real talent around him now at Chelsea and a manager playing attacking ball and he still isn’t showing anything more than what we’ve seen.

[StevO]

How anyone thinks Barkley was supported by the crowd amazes me. The away support yeah, but at Goodison? I’ve never seen an Everton player get as much stick. 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

He’s got some real talent around him now at Chelsea and a manager playing attacking ball and he still isn’t showing anything more than what we’ve seen.

That’s the point, what is it you are expecting to see from him?

What we saw was an exceptional footballer who had flashes of brilliance. We expected him to be world class, but we saw his level. He keeps possession, he can drag you 20 yards up the pitch and he scores the odd goal. He isn’t up to much defensively. That is what Chelsea bought, they aren’t expecting more and now the pressure of expectation is off his back and he’s enjoying his football.

He was the finished article before he left, but we wanted more more more, he didn’t have more to give. That was his, and our, biggest problem. 

[pete0]

6 hours ago, hafnia said:

 

You are saying that the manager isn'ttt necessarily telling the truth because that doesn't fit your agenda.   You have absolutely zero credibility to disgruntle anyone's arguments when it comes to matters like this - your gana gueye posts go in a hall of fame of complete and utter delusional toxic bullshit.  Worst player to pull on a blue shirt and you have stuck to that.... laughable.  How can anyone take anything you say as being balanced? 

You are the only person on here who thinks allardyce should have been given time and that's how you like it..... makes you feel special....

Barkley had songs about him being a diamond eh?  Yeah... abusive husbands buy their wives flowers and chocolates - does that mean you ignore the fact that their poor wives are treading on eggshells 90% of the time.  You can ignore the fact that Barkley used to get shouted out as being "fuckin shit you lad" when taking a corner.... that's if you want to.  

Zero creditability? You're the one who references things and then ignores several request for a link aa proof, oh and let's not get into your neighbours dog walkers best friend just happening to know the ins and outs of the club Billy. 

The manager added extra. Why would he add the tidbit about if the player wants to be here? But no can't be that Barkley is a selfish cunt as that doesn't fit your agenda against Koeman. Koeman is gone and nothing to do with Barkley as much as you want to force it. 

Abuse wise Lukaku got more and signed a contract. Towards the end after it was obvious he was gone it got a bit nasty but before that he only ever got the odd groan. Tom Davies gets worse. Martina got worse. Both were putting in better shifts than Barkley as was Lukaku. 

[Matt]

16 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Zero creditability? You're the one who references things and then ignores several request for a link aa proof, oh and let's not get into your neighbours dog walkers best friend just happening to know the ins and outs of the club Billy. 

The manager added extra. Why would he add the tidbit about if the player wants to be here? But no can't be that Barkley is a selfish cunt as that doesn't fit your agenda against Koeman. Koeman is gone and nothing to do with Barkley as much as you want to force it. 

Abuse wise Lukaku got more and signed a contract. Towards the end after it was obvious he was gone it got a bit nasty but before that he only ever got the odd groan. Tom Davies gets worse. Martina got worse. Both were putting in better shifts than Barkley as was Lukaku. 

Sorry, but none of them got close to the level of stick Barkley did, closest being Martina. 

[markjazzbassist]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

That’s the point, what is it you are expecting to see from him?

What we saw was an exceptional footballer who had flashes of brilliance. We expected him to be world class, but we saw his level. He keeps possession, he can drag you 20 yards up the pitch and he scores the odd goal. He isn’t up to much defensively. That is what Chelsea bought, they aren’t expecting more and now the pressure of expectation is off his back and he’s enjoying his football.

He was the finished article before he left, but we wanted more more more, he didn’t have more to give. That was his, and our, biggest problem. 

Honestly ste I loved Ross and thought given the right squad and players he could be more consistent and really grow into that number 10 free role like he did with Martinez but take it up a couple notches.  I didn’t think he hit his ceiling.  Now I’m realizing he did hit his ceiling and That’s the best he’s got.  Which surprises me, when he makes those driving runs and the ball is just glued to his foot and he’s passing guys and his balance is like that of a dancer just so gracefully he’s gliding by them.  Those were honestly magical to watch, I’m sad that they are outliers and not a regularity I guess is what I’m trying to say.

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Zero creditability? You're the one who references things and then ignores several request for a link aa proof, oh and let's not get into your neighbours dog walkers best friend just happening to know the ins and outs of the club Billy. 

The manager added extra. Why would he add the tidbit about if the player wants to be here? But no can't be that Barkley is a selfish cunt as that doesn't fit your agenda against Koeman. Koeman is gone and nothing to do with Barkley as much as you want to force it. 

Abuse wise Lukaku got more and signed a contract. Towards the end after it was obvious he was gone it got a bit nasty but before that he only ever got the odd groan. Tom Davies gets worse. Martina got worse. Both were putting in better shifts than Barkley as was Lukaku. 

Talking absolute shite as per norm....  Billy Bullshit.....  More like Delusional Dick.   Ever been wrong in your life? Silly question. 

[StevO]

4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Honestly ste I loved Ross and thought given the right squad and players he could be more consistent and really grow into that number 10 free role like he did with Martinez but take it up a couple notches.  I didn’t think he hit his ceiling.  Now I’m realizing he did hit his ceiling and That’s the best he’s got.  Which surprises me, when he makes those driving runs and the ball is just glued to his foot and he’s passing guys and his balance is like that of a dancer just so gracefully he’s gliding by them.  Those were honestly magical to watch, I’m sad that they are outliers and not a regularity I guess is what I’m trying to say.

But even Gazza didn’t do that every week. Gerrard didn’t score a 25 yarder every week. Rooney didn’t smash a volley in the top bin each week. 

Exoectation is the issue. For me Ross didn’t need to be a number ten, just a midfielder that sometimes does something exceptional. The demand to do something every game is beyond him, but look at Hazard along side him, he is the level of a player who does it each week. That’s world class level. Ross is just a very good level of footballer, not world class. 

[Hafnia]

14 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Honestly ste I loved Ross and thought given the right squad and players he could be more consistent and really grow into that number 10 free role like he did with Martinez but take it up a couple notches.  I didn’t think he hit his ceiling.  Now I’m realizing he did hit his ceiling and That’s the best he’s got.  Which surprises me, when he makes those driving runs and the ball is just glued to his foot and he’s passing guys and his balance is like that of a dancer just so gracefully he’s gliding by them.  Those were honestly magical to watch, I’m sad that they are outliers and not a regularity I guess is what I’m trying to say.

The top and bottom of it is loads of fans had him as a better version of Steven Gerrard before he ever got going.

 

I was genuinely excited about him when he first burst on the scene in the game against QPR where he ran the show.  A few ganes later he played against Blackburn- had a poor 10 minutes and moyes subbed him.  He never really got over that for some time.  Was loaned out to play for clubs like Leeds and sheff wed and their players weren't on the same wavelength.  Moyes bought him back back later him out wide where he was ineffective. Like Rodwell before him.... one of moyes traits that pissed me off tbh

The next season he finally got a game in his best role versus arsenal and ran the game and moyes didn't really like it cos he didn't trust him.

After that he had a great period under Martinez- the dino Hodgson ruined him in the world cup by picking on him.  And after that Martinez built him back up before getting sacked.

 

A very very good player on his day who when not on his game needs hooking off asap. Very similar to Gomes in my opinion.  We should have secured him here.... fans got off his back and kept getting mentors like Gareth Barry for him. 

[pete0]

48 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Talking absolute shite as per norm....  Billy Bullshit.....  More like Delusional Dick.   Ever been wrong in your life? Silly question. 

Still waiting for you to address the points. Hold your hand up you can't stand Koeman and got your eye wiped over a player who gives even less fucks about the club than that inept manager. 

Billy bullshit is you. Delusional? Wow really comprehensive response to the perfectly valid points I highlighted. If people don't nod and agree you get louder and nastier. I feel sorry for all these ex pros and their gardeners who have to put up with you down the pub. 

[pete0]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Sorry, but none of them got close to the level of stick Barkley did, closest being Martina. 

Based on what? Davies can't even misplace a pass without half the stadium groaning. Does my head in, Gana fucks up a much easier pass with very little said (well up until the last few couple of months). 

Martina was solid enough under Alladyce and far from our worst performer yet still got called a clown at every move. 

The Lukaku abuse was that of a jilted lover, fans abused him as they knew he was on the move. Little did they know he was more loyal to the club that the boyhood diamond. 

[Matt]

17 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Based on what? Davies can't even misplace a pass without half the stadium groaning. Does my head in, Gana fucks up a much easier pass with very little said (well up until the last few couple of months). 

Martina was solid enough under Alladyce and far from our worst performer yet still got called a clown at every move. 

The Lukaku abuse was that of a jilted lover, fans abused him as they knew he was on the move. Little did they know he was more loyal to the club that the boyhood diamond. 

Based on what I saw, heard and read. 

I agree that Martinas criticism was OTT, but it still didn’t come close to the hatred directed towards Barkley. 

[Palfy]

Barkley got stick more because he wouldn’t sign a new contract before or after his injury than how he was playing, in hindsight because of the dirty tricks on how he left the club he got off lightly. 

Not interested in how he plays now but hopefully it’s more poor than good for who ever it is  

But what won’t change for me is he is still a wanker who was involved in stitching the club up that gave him his opportunity  

 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Still waiting for you to address the points. Hold your hand up you can't stand Koeman and got your eye wiped over a player who gives even less fucks about the club than that inept manager. 

Billy bullshit is you. Delusional? Wow really comprehensive response to the perfectly valid points I highlighted. If people don't nod and agree you get louder and nastier. I feel sorry for all these ex pros and their gardeners who have to put up with you down the pub. 

"Still waiting".... thats rich. Is gana the worst player to ever wear a blue shirt. Answer that. ANSWER IT! COWARD. 

 

Can't stand Koeman?  Correct- nauseating prick who never wanted to be here... money was his master like the fat brown envelope grabbing tit allardyce. How's that for an answer? 

Had my eye wiped?  By Barkley?  I still see him as I always did. A bit daft - lacks sense but a nice kid and a great talent on his day. If koeman never behaved like the big alpha male that he thought he was and behaved like a manager with sense and a duty to the interests of the club he would have treated him better. 

[Hafnia]

39 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Barkley got stick more because he wouldn’t sign a new contract before or after his injury than how he was playing, in hindsight because of the dirty tricks on how he left the club he got off lightly. 

Not interested in how he plays now but hopefully it’s more poor than good for who ever it is  

But what won’t change for me is he is still a wanker who was involved in stitching the club up that gave him his opportunity  

 

Not true palfy. He was getting stick way before then. Leon osman actually got interviewed about it with Barkley sat next to him. Osman himself got loads of shit from time to time. 

It's something ridiculous our fans do.  I seen it when Rooney played for us at 17 vs Charlton in a game Scott Parker bossed. Nothing like what Barkley got but it was a one off game where Wayne was pretty poor. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Not true palfy. He was getting stick way before then. Leon osman actually got interviewed about it with Barkley sat next to him. Osman himself got loads of shit from time to time. 

It's something ridiculous our fans do.  I seen it when Rooney played for us at 17 vs Charlton in a game Scott Parker bossed. Nothing like what Barkley got but it was a one off game where Wayne was pretty poor. 

He probably was Haf from time to time but not with the same venom as his last 18 months when it was obvious he was stalling on whether he was going to sign a new contract.

He wasn't driven from the club by the supporters or the management he was driven in the end by money, not what you would expect from one of our own.

[markjazzbassist]

The whole fans giving stick unless you ban noise in the stadium it will always be there.  There are stupid and drunk people everywhere and the players need to learn to tune it out.  I played many sports in high school and when I was “in the game” I can tell you I never heard a single fan.  Not even my parents yelling for me.  Hell sometimes I didn’t even hear the coach!  Singular focus on the match and that’s it.  If a young MJB can do it surely a pro can.  So I don’t see that as an issue honestly, part of sport.

[Matt]

7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

The whole fans giving stick unless you ban noise in the stadium it will always be there.  There are stupid and drunk people everywhere and the players need to learn to tune it out.  I played many sports in high school and when I was “in the game” I can tell you I never heard a single fan.  Not even my parents yelling for me.  Hell sometimes I didn’t even hear the coach!  Singular focus on the match and that’s it.  If a young MJB can do it surely a pro can.  So I don’t see that as an issue honestly, part of sport.

It is a part of sport, but the scale of pressure and people would’ve been massively different mate. He started at 18 on a world stage in front of 35k fans who expected him to be the saviour. I really hope you didn’t get a 10000th of the abuse he got (actually wish you hadn’t gotten any !)

[StevO]

5 hours ago, Matt said:

It is a part of sport, but the scale of pressure and people would’ve been massively different mate. He started at 18 on a world stage in front of 35k fans who expected him to be the saviour. I really hope you didn’t get a 10000th of the abuse he got (actually wish you hadn’t gotten any !)

Exactly this, he may be focused while the game is flowing, but when his shot goes over the bar and the boos come out as he’s walking back into position he would have heard them. It’s not like it was one fella shouting on his own, it was thousands.  

Also he doesn’t have that aggression that a lot of young lads from Liverpool have, that bit of an edge about him. Not got any nasty in him, if that makes sense.

May come from being raised by a single Mum with along with his sister, I’m not sure, but it could have been a factor in his mentality on the pitch. I could be completely wrong though. I think a male instills a different part of your personality. I’m certainly part of my mum and dad, I know my sister is the same. Maybe I’m thinking too much about it. 

[markjazzbassist]

7 hours ago, Matt said:

It is a part of sport, but the scale of pressure and people would’ve been massively different mate. He started at 18 on a world stage in front of 35k fans who expected him to be the saviour. I really hope you didn’t get a 10000th of the abuse he got (actually wish you hadn’t gotten any !)

he was getting paid more than i will likely ever make in a salary in my life, and he was 18, i was playing for free.  i am not for the abuse, i think it's horrendous.  but the way the system works is those neanderthals paid for a ticket and can yell and scream at the players if they want to.  every club has those fans, so to act like that is to blame is missing the point, they are everywhere, so it's a moot point.  koeman/martinez, contract treatment sure that's debatable, but the fans yelling things is not in my opinion.  there is no safe place stadium in the UK or probably even the world, unless its a closed doors match.  

[Matt]

22 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

he was getting paid more than i will likely ever make in a salary in my life, and he was 18, i was playing for free.  i am not for the abuse, i think it's horrendous.  but the way the system works is those neanderthals paid for a ticket and can yell and scream at the players if they want to.  every club has those fans, so to act like that is to blame is missing the point, they are everywhere, so it's a moot point.  koeman/martinez, contract treatment sure that's debatable, but the fans yelling things is not in my opinion.  there is no safe place stadium in the UK or probably even the world, unless its a closed doors match.  

Money has absolutely nothing to do with it, and just because the abuse happens everywhere doesn’t mean it doesn’t count! 

[Sibdane]

I think he moved for the money. I don't believe it had anything to do with him being pushed out.

[pete0]

17 hours ago, hafnia said:

"Still waiting".... thats rich. Is gana the worst player to ever wear a blue shirt. Answer that. ANSWER IT! COWARD. 

 

Can't stand Koeman?  Correct- nauseating prick who never wanted to be here... money was his master like the fat brown envelope grabbing tit allardyce. How's that for an answer? 

Had my eye wiped?  By Barkley?  I still see him as I always did. A bit daft - lacks sense but a nice kid and a great talent on his day. If koeman never behaved like the big alpha male that he thought he was and behaved like a manager with sense and a duty to the interests of the club he would have treated him better. 

What's the relevance? And you already know the answer, I've answered it numerous times before. What's the point in me wasting time repeating myself? Talking of repeating myself, what Martinez added raises questions, you've not addressed that or why the club renewed other players contracts three times of asking.

[pete0]

19 hours ago, pete0 said:

If people don't nod and agree you get louder and nastier.

 

18 hours ago, hafnia said:

"Still waiting".... thats rich. Is gana the worst player to ever wear a blue shirt. Answer that. ANSWER IT! COWARD.