Summer Transfers: Who goes and who comes in?

[Romey 1878]

Hopefully it's a bluff.

 

Think we need an 'established' playmaker, without doubt.

 

That's the only "major signing" we really need.

 

Still should be looking at Goalkeeper, Centre Back, Winger, Second Striker. All don't HAVE to be big names but they're positions that need filling IMO.

 

Yeah, I'm fully expecting the playmaker (if we bother to bring one in) to be an experienced player after what Martinez said about us having someone already in the system.

[Paddock]

If we don't sign anyone of substance it's because there is no money and if that's the case this board wants running out of Everton because where the fuck has the money gone? Teams with smaller stadiums, fan base etc are pissing all over us in the market.

 

If anyone thinks that Martinez is happy with what he has and isn't spending because he thinks the squad doesn't need improving then they want locking up in a mental asylum!!

 

IF and I do say IF we don't sign at leat one 15 million pound player we're being conned big time by the club.

 

Time will tell.

[Hafnia]

If we don't sign anyone of substance it's because there is no money and if that's the case this board wants running out of Everton because where the fuck has the money gone? Teams with smaller stadiums, fan base etc are pissing all over us in the market.

 

If anyone thinks that Martinez is happy with what he has and isn't spending because he thinks the squad doesn't need improving then they want locking up in a mental asylum!!

 

IF and I do say IF we don't sign at leat one 15 million pound player we're being conned big time by the club.

 

Time will tell.

 

I for one would not be surprised to see that being the case. They have been playing the fans for idiots for too long now.

They throw in the odd marquee signing to calm the threat of dissent. Make little buyout announcements at season ticket renewal or half season ticket time.

 

The sad thing is - too many fans fall for the same trick. Phillip Green is laughing his head off.

[Lowensda]

 

I for one would not be surprised to see that being the case. They have been playing the fans for idiots for too long now.

They throw in the odd marquee signing to calm the threat of dissent. Make little buyout announcements at season ticket renewal or half season ticket time.

 

The sad thing is - too many fans fall for the same trick. Phillip Green is laughing his head off.

 

There's no question of that. I also felt they did it for Martinez' sake too with the Lukaku transfer. I'm sure there were sources claiming Roberto wanted out because he wasn't being given the money to work with. The Rom deal saved face.

[Makis]

I'll try to predict the future: a million Evertonians hitting the F5 key on deadline day hoping that the club makes one big signing this summer.

[Matt]

Same as every season, right?

[Hafnia]

Same as every season, right?

 

with a few little tweaks, sometimes they try and be super transparent and say we haven't got the money, sometimes its down to our targets not being attainable, sometimes we are happy with the "group" we have got - sometimes we sign a player to ridiculous fanfare and all previous experiences are forgotten.

 

Meanwhile almost all other clubs strengthen - or do some activity

[Matt]

We've signed 2 starters, that's strengthening and activity.

 

There's more to be done, I'm sure of it

[Hafnia]

We've signed 2 starters, that's strengthening and activity.

 

There's more to be done, I'm sure of it

 

Look at the net spend Matt - it is an operating model that can not be allowed to continue. It is a complete joke.

 

Its the same model that meant instead of West Ham having a team which consisted of:- James, Ferdinand, Carrick, Lampard, Defoe, a young glenn Johnson which in reality could have challenged for the champions league spots ended up getting relegated as the replacement signings did not work out.

 

Selling players like Lescott, Rooney, Arteta, Fellaini has bought in millions but left us with a risk like you have seen at the likes of Spurs, Villa and Liverpool where the replacements despite being £££ were not good enough - we have been operating at a lower level.

 

So for every time we say "yeah we got cahill, arteta, pienaar, lescott etc for a few quid" - we also got the likes of Kone, AVM, and numerous other "cheaper" buys who were poor.

[Matt]

Look at the net spend Matt - it is an operating model that can not be allowed to continue. It is a complete joke.

 

Its the same model that meant instead of West Ham having a team which consisted of:- James, Ferdinand, Carrick, Lampard, Defoe, a young glenn Johnson which in reality could have challenged for the champions league spots ended up getting relegated as the replacement signings did not work out.

 

Selling players like Lescott, Rooney, Arteta, Fellaini has bought in millions but left us with a risk like you have seen at the likes of Spurs, Villa and Liverpool where the replacements despite being £££ were not good enough - we have been operating at a lower level.

 

So for every time we say "yeah we got cahill, arteta, pienaar, lescott etc for a few quid" - we also got the likes of Kone, AVM, and numerous other "cheaper" buys who were poor.

Who mentioned net spend? You said other teams were spending and strengthening, I pointed out we've done the exact same thing. City just spent 50m on 1 player, we got 2 starters, good players who will improve the squad, for 5. Net spend is all relative.

 

Now, if you're changing the argument to vent about the lack of funds available, that's another debate all together and one that I agree with for the most part.

[Lowensda]

My worry (as expressed before) is that if we don't strengthen adequately to compete this year, I can see the likes of Stones, Lukaku and possibly Barkley leaving to pastures new.

 

We have the base foundations of some incredible young talent, there's no question but to keep them together, you have to start winning things or at least show that you're ambitious.

 

At present, the sounds bytes that have come from the club, is that we're 'OK'. We got the people we wanted in (fantastic prices for both Tom & Geri) but is that going to be enough? Not for me. I also don't see them as guarenteed first teamers either. So for me, we've improved the squad, not the team.

 

It's the team we need to look at now. We have plenty of aging, reliable professionals who can step in when a first teamer is out, but we still need to get a stronger starting 11 IMO.

 

The beginning of our season (due to the difficulty of our fixtures) will either be a springboard to greater things or the equivalent of a firing line. ALL young players work best on confidence. Cock-sure, arrogance, that Martinez likes. But that doesn't exist after 4/5 defeats on the bounce. We need to start strong, then I think our younger players will excel. We need players who are top level performers. Who can aid/carry the youngsters through the hard times, keep them firing on all cylinders through the tough times. Otherwise, we'll see the Ross Barkley of last year. Inconsistent and 'shot' of confidence. A play-maker who links Ross, Rom, McCarthy, Deulofeu together, to perform as well as we know they can be.

 

For that though, we need investment in the team. The board HAVE to dig deep and accept to improve, we have to spend some significant amount of cash.

 

I'm not expected 3/4 £15m players. Just for areas like goalkeeping to be addressed. £5m for Ospina? Yes please. £20/25m for someone like Calhanoglu (not a realistic target, I get that)? Will have to be spent, if you want the quality to push on.

 

The board ARE happy to tread water. But that's a dangerous game with our current crop of young, potentially excellent but also very ambitious youngsters.

 

Don't feed their hunger for silverware/titles, you'll lose them. Simple.

 

Feed the team, feed the hunger.

[Makis]

The squad needs changing, that's for sure. Howard is 36. Hibbert, Barry and Osman are 34. Pienaar is 33, Jagielka 32, Kone 31 and Baines 30. That's six important players and two fringe players who need replacing soon. And that's just replacing, not improving or adding to the squad because anyone with half the brain and not completely blind saw that the team lacks certain players. We are talking 3-4 players minimum. So the team will need about 10 first team players in relatively short time. I hardly believe we will see a massive splurge next summer so the quality will drop if Martinez is forced to search the bargain basements.

[Matt]

My worry (as expressed before) is that if we don't strengthen adequately to compete this year, I can see the likes of Stones, Lukaku and possibly Barkley leaving to pastures new.

 

We have the base foundations of some incredible young talent, there's no question but to keep them together, you have to start winning things or at least show that you're ambitious.

 

At present, the sounds bytes that have come from the club, is that we're 'OK'. We got the people we wanted in (fantastic prices for both Tom & Geri) but is that going to be enough? Not for me. I also don't see them as guarenteed first teamers either. So for me, we've improved the squad, not the team.

 

It's the team we need to look at now. We have plenty of aging, reliable professionals who can step in when a first teamer is out, but we still need to get a stronger starting 11 IMO.

 

The beginning of our season (due to the difficulty of our fixtures) will either be a springboard to greater things or the equivalent of a firing line. ALL young players work best on confidence. Cock-sure, arrogance, that Martinez likes. But that doesn't exist after 4/5 defeats on the bounce. We need to start strong, then I think our younger players will excel. We need players who are top level performers. Who can aid/carry the youngsters through the hard times, keep them firing on all cylinders through the tough times. Otherwise, we'll see the Ross Barkley of last year. Inconsistent and 'shot' of confidence. A play-maker who links Ross, Rom, McCarthy, Deulofeu together, to perform as well as we know they can be.

 

For that though, we need investment in the team. The board HAVE to dig deep and accept to improve, we have to spend some significant amount of cash.

 

I'm not expected 3/4 £15m players. Just for areas like goalkeeping to be addressed. £5m for Ospina? Yes please. £20/25m for someone like Calhanoglu (not a realistic target, I get that)? Will have to be spent, if you want the quality to push on.

 

The board ARE happy to tread water. But that's a dangerous game with our current crop of young, potentially excellent but also very ambitious youngsters.

 

Don't feed their hunger for silverware/titles, you'll lose them. Simple.

 

Feed the team, feed the hunger.

great post

[JoeQuince]

The squad needs changing, that's for sure. Howard is 36. Hibbert, Barry and Osman are 34. Pienaar is 33, Jagielka 32, Kone 31 and Baines 30. That's six important players and two fringe players who need replacing soon. And that's just replacing, not improving or adding to the squad because anyone with half the brain and not completely blind saw that the team lacks certain players. We are talking 3-4 players minimum. So the team will need about 10 first team players in relatively short time. I hardly believe we will see a massive splurge next summer so the quality will drop if Martinez is forced to search the bargain basements.

And several of those players were developed at Everton. Of those you listed, GK, attacking mids/wingers, and back up striker are the only positions where I'm not sure we have young players who will be ready to step in. Maybe back up RB, too.

[JoeQuince]

Who mentioned net spend? You said other teams were spending and strengthening, I pointed out we've done the exact same thing. City just spent 50m on 1 player, we got 2 starters, good players who will improve the squad, for 5. Net spend is all relative.

 

Now, if you're changing the argument to vent about the lack of funds available, that's another debate all together and one that I agree with for the most part.

This is where I stand, too. I'm less concerned with us spending big and joining in with the dick measuring contest than I am with us bringing in quality players who can work well for our team. Deulofeu for £5m or Sterling for £50m? I know which option I would pick.

 

If we aren't overspending in the market, we can also afford to put our top performers on better wages and keep them here longer. So, I can't complain about us not spending big. What matters is that we bring in big quality. And we have done well for cheap so far this summer.

 

I fully expect us to sign a #10 and a CB this summer. These are our biggest needs, and we will address them. Roberto has been vocal about the #10. Sure, he's gone a little silent, but if he's out blabbing about how our club just can't go on without one, do you think we will get the best price? Everything we "know" about this summer and the way our club is working is pure speculation. All that we actually know is that he's said he wants to make a couple more signings. We don't know what that means, and we can only infer based on what he's said earlier.

 

Anyhow, when we bring in a #10, I would love to see fluidity among him, Gerry, Barkley and Mirallas (obviously 4 wouldn't play at once in our system) on the attack. It's an exciting thought, just with Deulofeu, Mirallas and Barkley interchanging this year.

[Makis]

Most promising youngsters never really make it. We've had plenty of players like that who have made a few appearances and then disappeared into the lower leagues. Look at Lundstram: two years ago most were sure he'd surely soon make it. Baxter was a star in the making. Bidwell was as good as Garbutt (who haven't made it yet, either). Plenty of strikers who seemed great: Cadamarteri, Vaughan, etc. Things just don't work out for most players, we have been a good breeding ground for players in the lower divisions but not many have made it further. And that's the same thing with many other clubs, everyone tries to sign the best youngsters. For instance, last season we finished smack in the middle in the PL U21 league (11th). Teams like Fulham, Sunderland and Norwich finished above us. In the cup we lost to Wolves in the round of 16. If two of these really promising lads who are yet to break into the first team make a good PL career the youth setup has done a good job. Anything more and it would be exceptional. That's just how it goes.

 

Replacing players of that caliber with youth is a good way to slide down the table.

[Makis]

And what is this Deulofeu admiration? The lad can do step overs and go past people but there is so much to fix that he might end up the next McGeady just as well. Sterling at least has had a great season in the PL while Deulofeu had a mediocre one and not a good one in Spain last season.

[Lowensda]

And what is this Deulofeu admiration? The lad can do step overs and go past people but there is so much to fix that he might end up the next McGeady just as well. Sterling at least has had a great season in the PL while Deulofeu had a mediocre one and not a good one in Spain last season.

 

9 Assists & 3 Goals in a bad season for Deulofeu, who actually only played about half the games he should have.

 

The same amount of assists as; Osman, Pienaar, Mirallas, McGeady, McCarthy & Lennon put together, in a "not a good one in Spain".

 

Just perspective.

 

Aaaaah the Sterling conundrum. One purple patch (6 months) over 2 years, escalated him to the heights of "THE best young player in Europe".

 

We have paid 1/10th of what Sterling cost and may have someone who could be (even by your reckoning) half the player Sterling is, so he'll be worth it.

 

Definitely not the finished article, but he has technical ability in abundance, he just needs the 'brain' to really cement him as a top player. We've got a bargain. You just have to be patient.

[Romey 1878]

Id have to question anyone who thought Bidwell would be as good as Baines. The lad was and is a yard dog.

[Lowensda]

Most promising youngsters never really make it. We've had plenty of players like that who have made a few appearances and then disappeared into the lower leagues. Look at Lundstram: two years ago most were sure he'd surely soon make it. Baxter was a star in the making. Bidwell was as good as Garbutt (who haven't made it yet, either). Plenty of strikers who seemed great: Cadamarteri, Vaughan, etc. Things just don't work out for most players, we have been a good breeding ground for players in the lower divisions but not many have made it further. And that's the same thing with many other clubs, everyone tries to sign the best youngsters. For instance, last season we finished smack in the middle in the PL U21 league (11th). Teams like Fulham, Sunderland and Norwich finished above us. In the cup we lost to Wolves in the round of 16. If two of these really promising lads who are yet to break into the first team make a good PL career the youth setup has done a good job. Anything more and it would be exceptional. That's just how it goes.

 

Replacing players of that caliber with youth is a good way to slide down the table.

 

In regards to this Makis, every club wears VERY tinted glasses with their own youth products because physiologically we want them to do really well; to represent the club that 'made them' and fans can worship a local hero. When in reality, comparatively speaking, you're right, most will never make it but "making it" is based on fans/coaches hope, rather than straight up ability to succeed.

[StevO]

Play maker, winger and centre half, essential.

Striker, keeper and right back would be nice.

[JoeQuince]

 

In regards to this Makis, every club wears VERY tinted glasses with their own youth products because physiologically we want them to do really well; to represent the club that 'made them' and fans can worship a local hero. When in reality, comparatively speaking, you're right, most will never make it but "making it" is based on fans/coaches hope, rather than straight up ability to succeed.

Ten is talking a lot of sense today.

 

Makis, I'm not saying we've got readymade starters in our academy to replace those players who are getting on. GK, attacking mid/winger, and striker all are serious issues for which we have nothing. We have at least two promising CBs coming up, and it could be that neither end up making it. That's something we have to address this summer, anyhow. Garbutt is in a sink or swim year if he's going out on loan. We will know what we've got from him. But, if it's true that he's wanted at a premier league level, then that's a good sign. We don't have a readymade replacement for Hibbert, but we also can't promise a player, should we buy them, that they really have much of a chance in beating out Coleman.

 

All I'm saying is that we don't have to go ahead and assume we need to BUY BUY BUY in each of those positions. We have a handful of promising youngsters, one or a few of which might become suitable replacements.

[Lowensda]

Ten is talking a lot of sense today.

 

Today!? Just today!

 

Always, Joe'!!

[JoeQuince]

 

Today!? Just today!

 

Always, Joe'!!

Damn. I knew, when I read that back over, that it would go over like that. Also, who am I to say who's making sense and who's full of shit? In my totally subjective understanding of it, and with as little legitimacy as my opinion carries, I do feel you often make plenty of sense, Ten.

[Hafnia]

Who mentioned net spend? You said other teams were spending and strengthening, I pointed out we've done the exact same thing. City just spent 50m on 1 player, we got 2 starters, good players who will improve the squad, for 5. Net spend is all relative.

 

Now, if you're changing the argument to vent about the lack of funds available, that's another debate all together and one that I agree with for the most part.

 

By stating "Net spend" I think it gives an indication of strengthening. Lets just say that the market was 100% accurate and you get what you pay for :- if you sell a £30m pound player and replace with 3 x £10m players then in reality you will be no better off.

 

We have seen this with Liverpool and Spurs when they sold Suarez and Bale respectively - they ended up worse off.

 

I am not going to say everything is ok because we got Gerry and Cleverely for £4m for the two - its swings and roundabouts. Sometimes you have to pay £6m for a Kone and you get an areteta for a couple of mill.

 

The reality is - over the past 10-15 years our board has not supported the manager with any funds from their pockets. Its all come from player sales and TV money. Poor , pooor, poor.

 

The chickens will come home to roost unless this is changed. We have got away with it for too long. We need a visionary board and CEO - not this tin pot bunch of clowns who structure their 5 year plan on the back of a fag packet.

[Matt]

Ok, so the issue is again about money, not quality. Completely understand the frustration, but the "everyone is spending, we'll be left behind" stuff doesn't fly for me. It's been bandied around for years and we've hardly been left behind. Hardly progressed either, and that's the issue, but it's not necessarily money that resolves that. Last seasons spending is proof of that...

[Hafnia]

Ok, so the issue is again about money, not quality. Completely understand the frustration, but the "everyone is spending, we'll be left behind" stuff doesn't fly for me. It's been bandied around for years and we've hardly been left behind. Hardly progressed either, and that's the issue, but it's not necessarily money that resolves that. Last seasons spending is proof of that...

 

OK - lets put it another way teams who spend more than us can flirt or get relegated - Newcastle, Sunderland etc - so in essence we are relying on shrewd buys.

 

You only need to spend a few quid on the wrong players and you are in trouble - if you don't have the money to rectify those mistakes then thats where the trapdoor beckons.

 

So my point is - are we guaranteed to always buy smart? No - I think we seen how much Eto derailed us last year.

 

We have been extremely fortunate that we have had Rooney, Lescott, Rodwell, Areteta who at their stages of sales meant we were £74m in profit on - this allowed us to replace them and pay off the interest charges etc.

 

Who is gonna be left now in terms of a £15m plus player? Barkley, Lukaku, Stones, McCarthy, coleman. Because as J has pointed out - the likes of Howard, Jags, Ossie, Barry, Pienaar, Mcgeady, Kone, Hibbert, Naismith will be joing the likes of Distin and alcaraz as player who have no sell on value who will need replacing....

 

we are in serious need of cash injection. We need players in to replace to old - let alone to strengthen. Yes we may have a few coming through but maybe Ledson, Garbutt and one or two may surface. we really do need new stewardship who can invest in the team and not rely on TV money alone as its not enough as the market has inflated.

[StevO]

We don't need the board to couch up their own money. We need to make money as a business.

[Hafnia]

We don't need the board to couch up their own money. We need to make money as a business.

 

I agree, my point was that the board have not done anything that directly influences our player budget - "if" they were to put their hands in their pockets and help with ground regeneration - spending money on consultants that can take us forward or anyhting else that can positively impact our bottom line then I would be happy.

 

Even then give us an interest free loan that stops us losing millions each year. Just some investment.

[Lowensda]

http://www.shoot.co.uk/category/news/everton-prove-they-are-shrewd-in-the-transfer-market/

 

 

So pre-season is now underway and we have two new signings to behold, and two very familiar faces.

 

Everton have completed the permanent signing of Gerard Deulofeu, who played a bit-part role in the 13/14 season as a loan addition. We have made the move permanent for a fee believed to be around £4.2m, albeit with a buy-back fee agreed, should Barcelona wish to call on it. The other new signnig is Tom Cleverley – the much-maligned former Manchester United player – who will be keen to replicate his previous form found under Martinez in the 10/11 season at Wigan.

The duo have arrived for a combined transfer fee of £4.2m, which in the modern game is insanely cheap for two players who have already proved themselves to be capable Premier League players, and both with potential to improve. When you consider that they are both young, and that they have both experienced life at huge clubs, I think that Everton have done exceptionally well.

 

Martinez knows both players exceptionally well, having worked with them previously, and given the Spaniard’s emphasis on character of players and attitude and mentality, he clearly feels that these are attributes held by both of these players. From a more technical side, Martinez knows how to get the best out of these players. I speak here more specifically about Tom Cleverley, who has been played in a variety of positions during his career, but seemed most effective coming off the left wing at Wigan, when the 42-year-old had him previously. Given the age of Osman and Pienaar’s fitness concerns, Everton lacked the flair and ability to open up a defence from that side last season, and utilising Cleverley there may be the gaffer’s hope. He can also provide cover for the injury stricken Gibson in the holding midfield positions.

 

Last season was one of the most dour and uninspiring seasons for Evertonians, simply due to the levels of optimism that had radiated around L4 after Martinez’s hugely successful first term in charge. However, these signings represent a move back to what we had seen before. Christian Atsu was meant to provide the spark lost when Deulofeu went back to Spain, but this never materialised. Deulofeu has the directness and ability to cause any side immense problems, and it will be a joy to be able to see him committing defenders again next year. Cleverley, as alluded to in the previous section, will give us the guile to find the key pass in the final third.

 

Last season, due to injury and fitness concerns, we tried a number of different players on the left of the attacking three behind the striker, often one of Naismith, Barkley and Mirallas, but despite their many qualities, that killer pass isn’t one. The only success we had out there was when Osman or Pienaar filled in, who have that vision to open up a defence. The hope is that when Pienaar and Osman are unavailable next term, Cleverley can provide that spark. This is particularly important given the way that Everton played last year, with the crowd lamenting the slow build up play – and they were right to. The only time that Everton looked dangerous was when counter-attacking last season due to the inability to break down a deep defence. Hopefully, this problem will be less apparent next season given the two new recruits and their skill sets.

 

One word of caution should be said in relation to Deulofeu, who, despite the rose-tinted glasses we now look back at him with, has got many flaws to be ironed out and is far from the finished product. However, the two new signings bring with them a sense of youthful exuberance and an excitement which all Toffees fans felt was lacking last term, and with them flows a wave of optimism from within L4. Hopefully this tack continues and we can look forward to seeing a back up centre-half, as well as some competition for Lukaku, in the coming weeks ready for the beginning of the campaign in August.

Edited July 14, 2015 by tenaciousj