Matt Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Good piece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 If Cleverley is deemed as a suitable starter we're knackered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 If Cleverley is deemed as a suitable starter we're knackered. Relegation beckons, surely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Relegation beckons, surely Can't see him improving us that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Can't see him improving us that's all. Think he adds needed depth and can play a number of positions. Given that Gibson, Ossie, and Pienaar are always injured and Naismith isn't very effective out wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Ok, so the issue is again about money, not quality. Completely understand the frustration, but the "everyone is spending, we'll be left behind" stuff doesn't fly for me. It's been bandied around for years and we've hardly been left behind. Hardly progressed either, and that's the issue, but it's not necessarily money that resolves that. Last seasons spending is proof of that... This is the thing though. I'm positive no Evertonian truely expects us to go out and buy a keeper, a cb, winger attacking mid and a back up forward. To expect that is just unrealistic and stupid but Martinez has said he wants a number 10 so it's not unreasonable to expect us to pay 20 mil (or whatever that's just a figure I've used) on getting one. In this climate with other "lesser" (I hate using that phrase) teams spending 15 million on a single player and some spending it on multiple players then we have a right to be pissed off or wuestion why we can't. No I don't want us just to blow it for blowing sake, I would have like Cabaye but I can forgive the board not wanting to spend 12 million on a 29 year old, I get that and I understand it but IF and again I use IF we don't strengthen and atrengthen well in the areas the managet has said he wants to then why the fuck haven't we is the question that should and quite rightly will be on everyones lips. Romey 1878 and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 We may not get that number ten, play maker, whatever you want to call it. But it won't be down to us having no money to spend. That's just impossible in this current climate. But there are always other factors to consider. A massive one being 300 miles from London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 This is the thing though. I'm positive no Evertonian truely expects us to go out and buy a keeper, a cb, winger attacking mid and a back up forward. To expect that is just unrealistic and stupid but Martinez has said he wants a number 10 so it's not unreasonable to expect us to pay 20 mil (or whatever that's just a figure I've used) on getting one. In this climate with other "lesser" (I hate using that phrase) teams spending 15 million on a single player and some spending it on multiple players then we have a right to be pissed off or wuestion why we can't. No I don't want us just to blow it for blowing sake, I would have like Cabaye but I can forgive the board not wanting to spend 12 million on a 29 year old, I get that and I understand it but IF and again I use IF we don't strengthen and atrengthen well in the areas the managet has said he wants to then why the fuck haven't we is the question that should and quite rightly will be on everyones lips. spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 That interview doesn't concern me in the slightest he played his cards right and answered the question as he should have in my eyes He's hardly going to come out with potential area's we need to cover or targets etc only to raise other clubs interests eyebrows and price tags I think we will bring in two possibly three more depending on Howard's future, a keeper a creative mid and Lennon at the last minute of the window Hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 That interview doesn't concern me in the slightest he played his cards right and answered the question as he should have in my eyes He's hardly going to come out with potential area's we need to cover or targets etc only to raise other clubs interests eyebrows and price tags I think we will bring in two possibly three more depending on Howard's future, a keeper a creative mid and Lennon at the last minute of the window Hopefully No cb Paul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 No cb Paul?2 promising youngsters, Barry playing there against Swindon plus Besic came from playing CB... It's just not a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 2 promising youngsters, Barry playing there against Swindon plus Besic came from playing CB... It's just not a priority. Top priority. Stones and or Jags gets a long termer wemre fucked. We've lost 2 first team cb this window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 No cb Paul? As Matt says Pad we've two promising young lads emerging both seem more than capable albeit from the little we've seen from them I think with Stones Jags Galloway Browning we have what we did last season in the department cover wise but two younger and hopefully better players to step in I'm not a fan of Kone and would rather have seen a replacement come in but with him Lukaku Naismith McAleny and potentially Henen I don't think we will have to many problems We've plenty of options centrally in midfield I'd just like to see another wideman come in which I'd expect to be Lennon late on and the no10/creative player we all want but I don't think it's a position Martinez will buy/use as such now that Cleverley is here he'll use him as his missing piece and interlink between play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 No chance we'll go into the new season without signing a more experienced centre back. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Jags and stones are top rated... aside from them it's iffy unless Galloway really progresses or Browning does too. Barry is not an option there and nor is besic in this league. I would like to see Galloway and Browning loaned out and get a good centre half in to cover. Surely there must be some loan options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Jags and stones are top rated... aside from them it's iffy unless Galloway really progresses or Browning does too. Barry is not an option there and nor is besic in this league. I would like to see Galloway and Browning loaned out and get a good centre half in to cover. Surely there must be some loan options. sadly no CB will play for a free season ticket and the 2 meat pies Bill K and Elstone are offering players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Of course we'll sign at least one centre back. It would be absolutely ridiculous if we didn't. I'm convinced we'll get one decent signing and a couple of squad players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Who's good enough to step in within a certain price bracket that would be willing to play second fiddle for the most part? I'd personally rather use the money elsewhere when we've got two solid CB's and two promising ones but that's just me It's one position you can't fuck around and keep changing partnerships so unless we bring in some who could dislodge Jags or Stones I wouldn't be expecting anyone that would offer us more than those two given a few run outs pre season etc Edited July 14, 2015 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 We can't start the season without another centre half. The kids can't be expected to step up in that situation, not at premier league level. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) This is the thing though. I'm positive no Evertonian truely expects us to go out and buy a keeper, a cb, winger attacking mid and a back up forward. To expect that is just unrealistic and stupid but Martinez has said he wants a number 10 so it's not unreasonable to expect us to pay 20 mil (or whatever that's just a figure I've used) on getting one. In this climate with other "lesser" (I hate using that phrase) teams spending 15 million on a single player and some spending it on multiple players then we have a right to be pissed off or wuestion why we can't. No I don't want us just to blow it for blowing sake, I would have like Cabaye but I can forgive the board not wanting to spend 12 million on a 29 year old, I get that and I understand it but IF and again I use IF we don't strengthen and atrengthen well in the areas the managet has said he wants to then why the fuck haven't we is the question that should and quite rightly will be on everyones lips. I agree, no one expects us to (at least, I hope not). I also hate the term "lesser" teams; its disrespectful to the other teams and, as much as I would love to think otherwise, we've not won anything for a loooooong time and can't keep riding on our history. The way I see it, let the "lesser" teams spend money. So many people were so pissed off last season because Enner Valencia went to Wham, a club of decent stature for a decent fee. What happened? Nothing. There are soooo many examples and the reason I keep insisting that money isn't the most important thing is because of one simple fact - money doesn't guarantee success. Sunderland are a great example; massive shirt sponsorhip, new(ish) stadium, splash the cash, but they go nowhere. Same with Newcastle, Spurs, and if we're taking Cabaye as an example, Palace. Building a team takes years. Not 1 transfer window, not 5. Not now theres FFP to worry about at least. You need a solid manager with a plan (which I still believe we have, despite his fucking annoying blind optimism), a patient board (which we have) and a brilliant scouting network (which we have). All that being said, here's the kicker; that final frontier is having the cash to splash on the right candidate, which we are so desperately lacking. But, in the meantime, do you want to by the Soldados, the Valencias, the Fletchers, the Carrolls, the "insert name here" for the sake of saying "yeah, we spent money". I flippin well don't. I love that we buy Stones for 3m, Besic 4m, Jags 4m, Baines 6m, Coleman 60k, Barry free, Mirallas 6m, Howard 4m, Naismith free and so on and we still compete. Even when we have spent big, we've made massive profit from the sell on or have really profited from the players being in the team (Felli, McCarthy and Lukaku, the last 2 will nearly add 50% to their value at least) The model our "experts" run this club on is an utter embarrassment. No doubt. But considering that shitty foundation, I absolutely need them to be as vigilant as they have been with transfers. Because otherwise, we're fucked. Following Leeds / Portsmouth fucked. It is horrible to watch everyone else spend bucket loads of cash, but come January we're always laughing at them. They put themselves under masses of pressure and never deliver. We don't either, as annoying as that is, but we've not spent 20m+ on under-performing pre-madonnas. There's another factor to transfers that people, I think, generally forget. The transfer fee is usually the lesser of the total fee i.e. with agent fees, bonuses, wages etc you can at least double the total figure. Which is another reason why we need to respect the scouts and the management, for making sure we're not buying a Sterling. That, at the end of the day, is much more dangerous than a transfer fee, because signing a money-grabbing git can not only ruin your finances, it can screw your entire squad (see Eto'o). Top priority. Stones and or Jags gets a long termer wemre fucked. We've lost 2 first team cb this window. Its 3rd priority for me. Whats the point in having good defenders if we can't score. We've got adequate, yet untested, backup to step in at CB. Far from ideal, but considering an able CB, who is willing to come in and know hes back up, is going to be expensive. edit: sorry it took so long, needed a computer for that initial response Edited July 14, 2015 by Matt Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 We can't start the season without another centre half. The kids can't be expected to step up in that situation, not at premier league level. worked for Stones. And Coleman. Struggling past that.... Still, it's not priority #1. AMC, creative play maker, that guy with the killer pass. We don't get that, I'm joining the "all is lost" brigade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 worked for Stones. And Coleman. Struggling past that.... Still, it's not priority #1. AMC, creative play maker, that guy with the killer pass. We don't get that, I'm joining the "all is lost" brigade Completely different situations Coleman & Stones.... Less risk having a player at RB than centre half. He broke in the side properly at RM. Stones had a lot of competitive football under his belt before he came here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Completely different situations Coleman & Stones.... Less risk having a player at RB than centre half. He broke in the side properly at RM. Stones had a lot of competitive football under his belt before he came here. At Barnsley. jags at Sheffield Utd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 One of the young lads should be fourth choice, with the other going out on loan and us bringing in a third choice cb with experience. It's unthinkable to have Browning and Galloway as our back-ups. Counting Barry as a back-up is equal parts frightening and embarrassing. MC11 and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 One of the young lads should be fourth choice, with the other going out on loan and us bringing in a third choice cb with experience. It's unthinkable to have Browning and Galloway as our back-ups. Counting Barry as a back-up is equal parts frightening and embarrassing.Why? Why should a kid be bad news for being a back up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I agree, no one expects us to (at least, I hope not). I also hate the term "lesser" teams; its disrespectful to the other teams and, as much as I would love to think otherwise, we've not won anything for a loooooong time and can't keep riding on our history. The way I see it, let the "lesser" teams spend money. So many people were so pissed off last season because Enner Valencia went to Wham, a club of decent stature for a decent fee. What happened? Nothing. There are soooo many examples and the reason I keep insisting that money isn't the most important thing is because of one simple fact - money doesn't guarantee success. Sunderland are a great example; massive shirt sponsorhip, new(ish) stadium, splash the cash, but they go nowhere. Same with Newcastle, Spurs, and if we're taking Cabaye as an example, Palace. Building a team takes years. Not 1 transfer window, not 5. Not now theres FFP to worry about at least. You need a solid manager with a plan (which I still believe we have, despite his fucking annoying blind optimism), a patient board (which we have) and a brilliant scouting network (which we have). All that being said, here's the kicker; that final frontier is having the cash to splash on the right candidate, which we are so desperately lacking. But, in the meantime, do you want to by the Soldados, the Valencias, the Fletchers, the Carrolls, the "insert name here" for the sake of saying "yeah, we spent money". I flippin well don't. I love that we buy Stones for 3m, Besic 4m, Jags 4m, Baines 6m, Coleman 60k, Barry free, Mirallas 6m, Howard 4m, Naismith free and so on and we still compete. Even when we have spent big, we've made massive profit from the sell on or have really profited from the players being in the team (Felli, McCarthy and Lukaku, the last 2 will nearly add 50% to their value at least) The model our "experts" run this club on is an utter embarrassment. No doubt. But considering that shitty foundation, I absolutely need them to be as vigilant as they have been with transfers. Because otherwise, we're fucked. Following Leeds / Portsmouth fucked. It is horrible to watch everyone else spend bucket loads of cash, but come January we're always laughing at them. They put themselves under masses of pressure and never deliver. We don't either, as annoying as that is, but we've not spent 20m+ on under-performing pre-madonnas. There's another factor to transfers that people, I think, generally forget. The transfer fee is usually the lesser of the total fee i.e. with agent fees, bonuses, wages etc you can at least double the total figure. Which is another reason why we need to respect the scouts and the management, for making sure we're not buying a Sterling. That, at the end of the day, is much more dangerous than a transfer fee, because signing a money-grabbing git can not only ruin your finances, it can screw your entire squad (see Eto'o). Its 3rd priority for me. Whats the point in having good defenders if we can't score. We've got adequate, yet untested, backup to step in at CB. Far from ideal, but considering an able CB, who is willing to come in and know hes back up, is going to be expensive. edit: sorry it took so long, needed a computer for that initial response And I agree with everything you say I said in my post I don't want us tio buy for buyings sake but we need to strengthen in the key areas where we are falling short Matt, it's the exact reason why we're falling short. The board should be telling Martinez to identify his targets and getting them for him now more than ever.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Are people seriously suggesting they would be ok to play a large part of the season with a CB pairing of Stones and Browning? Without a CB signing that would be one bad injury away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 We can't start the season without another centre half. The kids can't be expected to step up in that situation, not at premier league level. I'm with Steve on this, Duffy was probably a better CH than both of those young lads, but was shipped out on loan, and then sold !!. We need experience in central defencewhich is a very important position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Why? Why should a kid be bad news for being a back up? You seem quite confident that Browning or Galloway can step into centre half. Whilst I like your optimism there is absolutely no chance that they are experienced enough. Yes stones had games and is now a first choice after 2 seasons but he is a rare talent and that hasn't been without teething problems. We would have to hope that jays doesn't miss one game in order to walk one of the other two through. The safest option is they get game time at a good level on loan and we get a centre half. It's far too risky tonot in a key position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I agree we do need one with experience since losing Distin and Alcaraz but it's more the point of who could we bring in that's suitable to stand in at a reasonable price who's a better option than those two? Unless we spend a fair amount on a player like Dann we will more than likely end up with a player like Alcaraz who is experienced but jittery and nothing special I suppose I'm just being sceptical regarding money and area's I'd personally rather see it spent, shame we didn't go for Richards as he can cover more than one position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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