jofanon Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'd love to have a peer into our murky accounts once Stones leaves (which he will). I wonder if Bill tells John Stones to submit a transfer request so that the club can say "we tried our hardest to keep him" John would lose his loyalty bonus but I wonder if there is a ex gratia payment upon him leaving replacing said bonus We probably owe money on Lukaku Barnsley will get there 15% What will be left over after paying off some more debt? Feck all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 You missed my point. You can't compare the sale of Bale to Stones. What i'm trying to say is, i personally think that getting a replacement in for a centre back is easier than a Bale type player. I understand all the politics about making a stand,media perception and feeder club etc etc. I would love nothing more than for us to make a stand, stop selling and build a team. In reality we are still a feeder club and we will continue to try and hold onto players until the request to leave comes in. I think if we get a half decent defender in and 2 attacking minded players we will be okay. Maybe not stronger but we can move on. Stones gives us so much of as platform to play the way Martinez wants us to. Its like selling Mirallas or Deulofeu and brining in Kevin Kilbane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) We've hardly been a feeder club Haf Rooney and Stones are the two outstanding talents I can think of we've let or potentially going to let go at a relatively young age Edited August 26, 2015 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 We've hardly been a feeder club Haf Rooney and Stones are the two outstanding talents I can think of we've let or potentially going to let go at a relatively young age Jeffers, Ball and Rodwell ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jeffers, Ball and Rodwell ? And look at the huge things they moved on to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 And look at the huge things they moved on to. Was just examples Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Was just examples Mike. Of "outstanding talents" (which is what Paul was talking about)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Of "outstanding talents"? Yes at the time they were. So just putting 3 more names in as Paul could only think of a young Stones and Rooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'd describe them more as "dodged bullets" than outstanding talents. Good business getting shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Stones gives us so much of as platform to play the way Martinez wants us to. Its like selling Mirallas or Deulofeu and brining in Kevin Kilbane. Okay Haf a question for you. Selling what player this week would have the biggest negative effect for the rest of the season? A- Lukaku or B- Stones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'd describe them more as "dodged bullets" than outstanding talents. Good business getting shot. Very good business as they went down hill fast. We didn't know that at the time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jeffers was hardly a big name nor talent he was a poacher with abit of pace Rodwell had the potential but never lived upto it here nor was he a loss and Ball was before my time We are not a feeder Club it's an assumption or opinion angry fans throw around we've sold players as have everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 What effect is all this having on the rest of the squad? just wondering..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jeffers was hardly a big name nor talent he was a poacher with abit of pace Rodwell had the potential but never lived upto it here nor was he a loss and Ball was before my time We are not a feeder Club it's an assumption or opinion angry fans throw around we've sold players as have everyone else Sorry to break the news but deep down we are still a feeder club. Michael Ball not Alan. I'm not that old either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Okay Haf a question for you. Selling what player this week would have the biggest negative effect for the rest of the season? A- Lukaku or B- Stones well my assessment in that case is this "which one of those 2 players is going to be world class and is tougher to replace?" There are not many John Stones around, a player that you can build a team and its philosophy around. He is as close to a world class talent that we will have aside Barkley and since Rooney. I think it would be far easier to replace Rom, and to be fair to the lad our system does not suit him. Whereas stones is made for martinez. Every single year the top clubs would look at Stones, he is a class act, simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Everyone knows that Makis what's your point as that isn't the situation? My point was that that logic is bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) My point was that that logic is bollocks.I agree with that mate What makes a feeder club Milesey? Name me the players that have been developed here improved or had the obvious potential to thqt have been sold on? Every club buys and sells young players or those of exceptional talent Edited August 26, 2015 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I think a feeder club represents a club that needs to sell its best players in order to survive and operate. Do we need to sell stones? I don't think we do, the TV money alleviates that need. The choice to sell stones reflects "ambition" and it is fair to say we lack that. So I wouldn't say we are a feeder club, just a club with no direction or strength if we do sell him. Elston Gunnn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 You missed my point. You can't compare the sale of Bale to Stones. What i'm trying to say is, i personally think that getting a replacement in for a centre back is easier than a Bale type player. I understand all the politics about making a stand,media perception and feeder club etc etc. I would love nothing more than for us to make a stand, stop selling and build a team. In reality we are still a feeder club and we will continue to try and hold onto players until the request to leave comes in. I think if we get a half decent defender in and 2 attacking minded players we will be okay. Maybe not stronger but we can move on. We'll be ok really? I'm sorry but I just hope the gravitational pull of the denseness of your brain does not attract other fools to it. We have 2 CB at the club plus some promising but in no way ready to play in the PL. If we sell Stones we will then be left with just Jags, we will have to purchase other CB's at inflated prices as other clubs will know we have the Stones money. Even if we get 2 new quality CB's, they will need time to bed in, and all the time we will have to face teams looking to take advantage. How long then before other players also decide that the Everton project is not what it seems and ask to leave? Unless we have deals and prices in place then we must hold firm and let him go next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 My big worry is Roberto buying defenders. I'm scared shitless! On the plus side, we'll see lots of goals at GP this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I agree with that mate What makes a feeder club Milsey? Name me the players that have been developed here improved or had the obvious potential to thqt have been sold on? Every club buys and sells young players or those of exceptional talent Rooney, Lescott, Rodwell, Arteta... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 We'll be ok really? I'm sorry but I just hope the gravitational pull of the denseness of your brain does not attract other fools to it. We have 2 CB at the club plus some promising but in no way ready to play in the PL. If we sell Stones we will then be left with just Jags, we will have to purchase other CB's at inflated prices as other clubs will know we have the Stones money. Even if we get 2 new quality CB's, they will need time to bed in, and all the time we will have to face teams looking to take advantage. How long then before other players also decide that the Everton project is not what it seems and ask to leave? Unless we have deals and prices in place then we must hold firm and let him go next season. Love it " denseness of your brain" Lets' just all slit our wrist and cry over it then!! We have just signed Mori and hopefully will get another to add to Jags and Browning as our CB'S.. Not ideal but that's where we are I think if Stones is sold we should see what comes in before crying. Hey what do i know being this dense???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Love it " denseness of your brain" Lets' just all slit our wrist and cry over it then!! We have just signed Mori and hopefully will get another to add to Jags and Browning as our CB'S.. Not ideal but that's where we are I think if Stones is sold we should see what comes in before crying. Hey what do i know being this dense???? I apologise, I was a tad harsh. My point however stands that now matter how stiff our upper lip is, no matter how sunny our disposition, if we let Stones go now it will cost us. Mori, may be a good player but he has never played in the PL, he will have to adapt to the pace as well as the way we play, The same will probably apply to any other CB we purchase. This will take time that we don't have, and cost us points and confidence. I accept that Stones will go at some point, but it should be at a time of our choosing, when we can get replacements in and give them time to bed in. Edited August 26, 2015 by London Blue Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I agree with that mate What makes a feeder club Milsey? Name me the players that have been developed here improved or had the obvious potential to thqt have been sold on? Every club buys and sells young players or those of exceptional talent My take on a feeder club. 1- Bringing players through the youth set up (Rooney,Rodwell) to u21's eventually in the 1st team starting 11. Players with extreme talent that are destined to play for clubs that are in the champions league and winning titles. 100% profit. 2. Bringing in players and then developing them into even better players. Players that other Prem clubs wouldnt take a chance on ( Gravesen,Fellaini,Lescott,Dacourt,Arteta and more ). Then selling them on for a profit. I think we do both so are we not a feeder club? Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesey05 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) I apologise, I was a tad harsh. My point however stands that now matter how stiff our upper lip is, no matter how sunny our disposition, if we let Stones go now it will cost us. Mori, may be a good player but he has never played in the PL, he will have to adapt to the pace as well as the way we play, The same will probably apply to any other CB we purchase. This will take time that we don't have, and cost us points and confidence. I accept that Stones will go at some point, but it should be at a time of our choosing, when we can get replacements in and give them time to bed in. No worries. Stones hasn't gone anywhere yet so we all could be getting our knickers in a twist for no reason. Edited August 26, 2015 by milesey05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Maybe Stones leaving will be the final nail in Kenwright leaving a new dawn. One can dream Or more likely, it starts a further decline with it encouraging others to leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWooney Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Ultimately the club NEED money and the only way we can get that money is to sell our prized assets. We've already sold the training ground, mortgaged out the stadium and we take loans on the forthcoming tv money long before we get it. The only thing left is players and if the right offer comes in for a player worth enough to help balance the books and give a bit back to the manager then that is what they will do. It will continue to happen all of the time unless we suddenly come into money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbeaker Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 With the exception of Rooney how many of those young players have gone on to be a success after leaving. Arteta did well but he was at his peak and close to being at the end of his contract when he left. The likes of Rodwell left too early, Ball could have been a decent player but had some serious injury problems. For the club and for Stones I would like to see him stay for anopther year but I think his agent is the one pushing hard for him to leave seeing the ££ signs is too strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Excellent analysis from the "Everton must not sell" perspective. I understand, of course, that there are other perspectives, but this is a good read, well-argued, including concluding paragraph on ambition. http://www.espnfc.us/club/everton/368/blog/post/2580984/everton-john-stones-not-for-sale-stance-should-stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Rooney, Lescott, Rodwell, Arteta...Again Rodwell wasn't as big a talent as some had hoped or thought I never thought he was personally when he was here he was simply a sale in my eyes Rooney being the exception of those mentioned and in selling we moved on and improved from it Lescott and Arteta where established players and one wanted out bar Arteta in my eyes it was nothing more than good business from the club as apposed to being a "feeder club" Edited August 26, 2015 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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