Ronald Koeman

[London Blue]

I see the echo chamber are howling at the moon again.

In all seriousness the starting line up was a mistake, players like Klasseen are not yet ready for the premier league and will not be for several months, just like Mkhitaryan at Utd, best used in Europa and cup games along with appearances from the subs bench.  Martina is still to big a risk at the back, Kenny is a better defender and just as good going forward. 

I love seeing Rooney in an Everton shirt but when he plays we look lobsided in attack as he has no positional discipline, having Nessie and DCL made us look so much more potent in attack, and its due in part to having 2 strikers working together who stay up front and give us an attacking focus.

I hope and believe that Koeman will now realise that he must build on what worked last season that means having Davies start in midfield, Nessie / Sandro and DCL working together, Holgate or Kenny at right back. Siggy is starting to settle in and look good, and we need to be able to find room for Klasic and or Lokman who give us pace. Maybe something like below.

                                                   Pickford

Kenny / Holgate      Keane                Williams       Baines

                                 Davies           Morgan / Gana

                                                Siggy

                   Lookman / Vlasic      Nessie       DCL / Sandro

That's the managers job and I hope and believe he will do it.

 

 

[Bill]

I think Koeman is under a great deal of pressure, he was promised an open checkbook, 7 or 8 New players arrived and he got rid of 2nd rate players who we all wanted off the wage bill.  That's a massive undertaking to try and knit so many players so early into the season.  I have doubts about the players he's bought ....

Pickford was a dire need, and Keane was needed, unfortunately Coleman and Bolassie are injured and Barkley has been slagged off left right and centre in public, and has been put on the compost heap.

I think all we needed was a top striker to replace Lukaku, we could have done without spending £75m on Siggy and Klaasen.

I don't want us to become a club that changes managers every 6 months so I'm going to give him till this time next season, can't hope for anything but 7th this season but I will be looking for improvement next season, I'm willing to give him that much time to get it right.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, patto said:

Before we appointed Koeman I stated we should give Unsworth and Royle the job and I see no reason not to do it now.

Joe Royle is the best man manager to ever be in charge of our club.

Kendall?

[Paddock]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

I think Koeman is under a great deal of pressure, he was promised an open checkbook, 7 or 8 New players arrived and he got rid of 2nd rate players who we all wanted off the wage bill.  That's a massive undertaking to try and knit so many players so early into the season.  I have doubts about the players he's bought ....

Pickford was a dire need, and Keane was needed, unfortunately Coleman and Bolassie are injured and Barkley has been slagged off left right and centre in public, and has been put on the compost heap.

I think all we needed was a top striker to replace Lukaku, we could have done without spending £75m on Siggy and Klaasen.

I don't want us to become a club that changes managers every 6 months so I'm going to give him till this time next season, can't hope for anything but 7th this season but I will be looking for improvement next season, I'm willing to give him that much time to get it right.

Good post that Bill.

[Hafnia]

When something obviously doesn't work and is continuously tried and only changed mid match then you wonder what on earth is going on in the person's head.

He defies logic.  

Basically he wants to repeatedly use players that he wants to make it work and just keeps banging away..... it doesn't work!!!

Just nuts. 

 

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, hafnia said:

When something obviously doesn't work and is continuously tried and only changed mid match then you wonder what on earth is going on in the person's head.

He defies logic.  

Basically he wants to repeatedly use players that he wants to make it work and just keeps banging away..... it doesn't work!!!

Just nuts. 

 

We got rid of our last manager for doing this. Why is Koeman getting a free pass? 

[Paddock]

2 minutes ago, hafnia said:

When something obviously doesn't work and is continuously tried and only changed mid match then you wonder what on earth is going on in the person's head.

He defies logic.  

Basically he wants to repeatedly use players that he wants to make it work and just keeps banging away..... it doesn't work!!!

Just nuts. 

 

He's playing them to try and make them gel- whether that's right or wrong is an entirely different discussion but that is why he is persisting with it. 

The biggest problem he has is none of the players have hit the ground crunning-

Pickfords been ok to be fair

Keane looks absolutely shot. Of any confidence

Klassen is really struggling

Sigguardson has had no pre season

Rooney is struggling

Sandro is also struggling

Not one has got off to a flyer but if 2 or 3 hit some form and cohesion and we sort the striker out we will be a very good side. I honestly don't think we'll see the best of this squad until next season.

 

[Paddock]

4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

We got rid of our last manager for doing this. Why is Koeman getting a free pass? 

He's not getting a free pass- Martinez got 3 full seasons, Koemans had 1!!

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Paddock said:

He's not getting a free pass- Martinez got 3 full seasons, Koemans had 1!!

He didn't get 3 full years at all pad. He shit out the blocks the first year, so can't count the beginning. For a fair assessment you would need to go from when he was under real scrutiny, like Koeman is now..

This makes it one year.

[Paddock]

1 minute ago, yamar said:

He didn't get 3 full years at all pad. He shit out the blocks the first year, so can't count the beginning. For a fair assessment you would need to go from when he was under real scrutiny, like Koeman is now..

This makes it one year.

If they both get 3 seasons they've had exactly the same amount of time. It would only be fair to judge them for the same amount of time. 

On the flip side, Koeman got a lot more to spend but to balance it out Martinez never lost his main goalscorer.

It's all ifs and buts Bret to be fair and I'm certainly no Koeman apologist, he'll be critisised by me when it's justified, I just think it's far too soon to launch him and part of the reason I think that is all the players are his and I think a change of manager (now at least) will do more harm than good.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Paddock said:

If they both get 3 seasons they've had exactly the same amount of time. It would only be fair to judge them for the same amount of time. 

On the flip side, Koeman got a lot more to spend but to balance it out Martinez never lost his main goalscorer.

It's all ifs and buts Bret to be fair and I'm certainly no Koeman apologist, he'll be critisised by me when it's justified, I just think it's far too soon to launch him and part of the reason I think that is all the players are his and I think a change of manager (now at least) will do more harm than good.

Just think I'm sick of optimism only for another season to fizzle out. Maybe it's the money this season that's unearthed a sense of eagerness to get it right straight away.

Just feels like whenever we get a chance make a massive mark in the world of football, the others seem to change into 6th gear when we've just been fitted with a fifth.

Must be more patient.

[Paddock]

7 minutes ago, yamar said:

Just think I'm sick of optimism only for another season to fizzle out. Maybe it's the money this season that's unearthed a sense of eagerness to get it right straight away.

Just feels like whenever we get a chance make a massive mark in the world of football, the others seem to change into 6th gear when we've just been fitted with a fifth.

Must be more patient.

 I get exactly where you're coming from mate, I really do- whenever we get a new dawn it ends up pissing down- remember finishing 4th then the shite went and won the champions league? It's infuriating and I am just as upset and disappointed as everyone is.

Imm genuinely worried about us this season, we're not looking cohesive at all the players look terrified on the ball and confidence looks bad but I just think (and it's just my opinion) getting rid of him now will do more damage. It's not like a new manager can bring his own players with him we have what we have until January and even then adding quality will be difficult.

It's shit mate it really is- I felt physically sick sitting there yesterday when they scored- my youngest was just sitting was sitting there with his head in his hands, it's fucking Grimsby- but we have to keep a level head for the time being.

[Guest]

Just now, Paddock said:

 I get exactly where you're coming from mate, I really do- whenever we get a new dawn it ends up pissing down- remember finishing 4th then the shite went and won the champions league? It's infuriating and I am just as upset and disappointed as everyone is.

Imm genuinely worried about us this season, we're not looking cohesive at all the players look terrified on the ball and confidence looks bad but I just think (and it's just my opinion) getting rid of him now will do more damage. It's not like a new manager can bring his own players with him we have what we have until January and even then adding quality will be difficult.

It's shit mate it really is- I felt physically sick sitting there yesterday when they scored- my youngest was just sitting was sitting there with his head in his hands, it's fucking Grimsby- but we have to keep a level head for the time being.

Fair-doo's although I've just had a bit of sick in my mouth when you mentioned that champions league night again.😷

[rubecula]

23 minutes ago, Paddock said:

If they both get 3 seasons they've had exactly the same amount of time. It would only be fair to judge them for the same amount of time. 

On the flip side, Koeman got a lot more to spend but to balance it out Martinez never lost his main goalscorer.

It's all ifs and buts Bret to be fair and I'm certainly no Koeman apologist, he'll be critisised by me when it's justified, I just think it's far too soon to launch him and part of the reason I think that is all the players are his and I think a change of manager (now at least) will do more harm than good.

good post , but one question,  supposing we do give him 3 seasons and supposing at the end of this one we are relegated,  what would you suggest we do then?  (Just a general hypothetical question)

 

[Sibdane]

I think it is the money. We've never had a window where we've brought in so many players and have what many consider to be a high-profile manager. We're also building a new stadium. There should be optimism for sure, but that's no reason for entitlement (not directed at any one individual).

There seems to be a lot more attention on us and there's definitely a lot more expectation. I still think Koeman deserves some time. We got the three points yesterday and looked a little better than we have... not saying it was great but a win is a win. I fully expect us to win our next 3 games. If those don't go well then I'll start leaning towards a new face. I'm right there with everyone else in that we deserve better than what we've seen. I'm still not convinced that Koeman can't be apart of that.

[Newty82]

2 minutes ago, yamar said:

Just think I'm sick of optimism only for another season to fizzle out. Maybe it's the money this season that's unearthed a sense of eagerness to get it right straight away.

Just feels like whenever we get a chance make a massive mark in the world of football, the others seem to change into 6th gear when we've just been fitted with a fifth.

Must be more patient.

That last bit is true of a lot of Evertonians I think. And has been for years.

The club needs to learn from any mistakes it has potentially made in the recent transfer window. And I say potential mistakes, as it's too early to say for sure if we did make mistakes. As it stands today, it looks to all like we did get it wrong. But the picture might be totally different in a few months time.

And the learning process has to run through the club. Koeman. Walsh. Moshiri. For example, there's no point in sacking a manager if you let the next guy do the same thing in terms of transfers, if this lot do turn out to be poor. No point in again paying high fees, if these guys do turn out to be over priced players.

Thing is, like it or not, it's too early to say. Koeman has to be given the appropriate time to show that he can do what we expect. He has to show that he can learn from his mistakes. Likewise the players. Takes time though...and that also requires patience.

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, rubecula said:

good post , but one question,  supposing we do give him 3 seasons and supposing at the end of this one we are relegated,  what would you suggest we do then?  (Just a general hypothetical question)

We won't be relegated.

If we were (in a parallel universe somewhere) Koeman would be gone well before it happened.

[nogs]

Koeman is falling into the classic trap of playing the players he thinks he has to play, i.e. the expensive new signings, rather than picking a team based on form. He'd make a good England manager in that respect. I get the argument you want to play new players to get them up to speed, and in this case let a new team gel, but football is about winning. Klaasen should not be starting games for our first XI on current form, not when Davies is sat on the bench especially. Nor is Keane doing enough, nor Martina, nor Gana, and it's hard to see how Rooney and Sigurdsson can play together at present. Every player should have to earn a place in the XI. All Koeman does by having a fixed set of preferred starters is kill competition in the squad, and heap pressure on the players who are not playing well. 

After the last two games, Davies, Niasse, Kenny and possibly Vlasic should all get starts against Limassol and/or Burnley. What's the point of having a squad otherwise?

[Newty82]

6 minutes ago, rubecula said:

good post , but one question,  supposing we do give him 3 seasons and supposing at the end of this one we are relegated,  what would you suggest we do then?  (Just a general hypothetical question)

 

I think we all know this one Rubes. He'd be sacked if it looked like we are going down!

C'mon, you know nobody is suggesting that he gets 3 years without having some sort of clause regarding league position to that.

The 3 years thing is simply for those who are bringing up the Martinez comparison thing (which I'm still bamboozled as to why this is suddenly seen as a good era!).

I'm more than sure that Koeman won't be allowed even one season of us finishing 11th, never mind 2. We have to be up at that top end for him to secure his job. Absolute minimum 7th.

[pete0]

54 minutes ago, Paddock said:

If they both get 3 seasons they've had exactly the same amount of time. It would only be fair to judge them for the same amount of time. 

On the flip side, Koeman got a lot more to spend but to balance it out Martinez never lost his main goalscorer.

It's all ifs and buts Bret to be fair and I'm certainly no Koeman apologist, he'll be critisised by me when it's justified, I just think it's far too soon to launch him and part of the reason I think that is all the players are his and I think a change of manager (now at least) will do more harm than good.

Martinez bought him! RM lost Fellaini and replaced him with Barry and McCarthy two class players. RK lost lukaku and didn't replace him, that's on the boards head as well. RK brought in the middle pair who are miles away from Martinez's pairing. 

What are RK's tactics? 

[pete0]

51 minutes ago, Paddock said:

 I get exactly where you're coming from mate, I really do- whenever we get a new dawn it ends up pissing down- remember finishing 4th then the shite went and won the champions league? It's infuriating and I am just as upset and disappointed as everyone is.

Imm genuinely worried about us this season, we're not looking cohesive at all the players look terrified on the ball and confidence looks bad but I just think (and it's just my opinion) getting rid of him now will do more damage. It's not like a new manager can bring his own players with him we have what we have until January and even then adding quality will be difficult.

It's shit mate it really is- I felt physically sick sitting there yesterday when they scored- my youngest was just sitting was sitting there with his head in his hands, it's fucking Grimsby- but we have to keep a level head for the time being.

A new manager will pick the best players and put them in a system that works.. Or at least one that makes sense on paper. 

[MikeO]

4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

A new manager will pick the best players and put them in a system that works.. Or at least one that makes sense on paper. 

A new manager will pick the best players and put them in a system that works. Or at least one that makes sense in his head.

Which is exactly what Koeman's doing.

[pete0]

48 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

I think we all know this one Rubes. He'd be sacked if it looked like we are going down!

C'mon, you know nobody is suggesting that he gets 3 years without having some sort of clause regarding league position to that.

The 3 years thing is simply for those who are bringing up the Martinez comparison thing (which I'm still bamboozled as to why this is suddenly seen as a good era!).

I'm more than sure that Koeman won't be allowed even one season of us finishing 11th, never mind 2. We have to be up at that top end for him to secure his job. Absolute minimum 7th.

Technically he was only given one. He was sacked for doing it the second time. 

[pete0]

10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

A new manager will pick the best players and put them in a system that works. Or at least one that makes sense in his head.

Which is exactly what Koeman's doing.

Does anyone outside of Koeman's head understand these tactics or believe that he's playing our best eleven? 

[MikeO]

Just now, pete0 said:

Does anyone outside of Koeman's head understand these tactics or believe that he's playing our best eleven? 

I don't know, I haven't asked everyone; I'll get back to you.

You're paying my phone bill this month mind!

[pete0]

1 minute ago, MikeO said:

I don't know, I haven't asked everyone; I'll get back to you.

You're paying my phone bill this month mind!

Can you start with the eleven lost souls from yesterday. You can use my phone but I don't have any of their numbers.  

[Paddock]

2 hours ago, rubecula said:

good post , but one question,  supposing we do give him 3 seasons and supposing at the end of this one we are relegated,  what would you suggest we do then?  (Just a general hypothetical question)

 

If it got that bad where we were in danger of that then onviously the trigger would have to be pulled sooner, but if we have a season where we finish 9th or 10th this season he shouldn't be sacked imo,  he and his players deserve a 3rd season- if that stays the same as this one (assuming we finish this one mid to lower table) then he should be sacked and at least then he will of been given a chance. Kendall was a game away from being sacked so was Alex Ferguson. I'm not for a single second saying he could be as good as Ferguson but it's evidence that sometimes we have to be patient.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Before we appointed Koeman I stated we should give Unsworth and Royle the job and I see no reason not to do it now.
Joe Royle is the best man manager to ever be in charge of our club.

[emoji102] I liked big Joe , but best man manager Everton ever had ?? Really ?

[Bailey]

On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 15:12, nogs said:

Koeman is falling into the classic trap of playing the players he thinks he has to play, i.e. the expensive new signings, rather than picking a team based on form. He'd make a good England manager in that respect. I get the argument you want to play new players to get them up to speed, and in this case let a new team gel, but football is about winning. Klaasen should not be starting games for our first XI on current form, not when Davies is sat on the bench especially. Nor is Keane doing enough, nor Martina, nor Gana, and it's hard to see how Rooney and Sigurdsson can play together at present. Every player should have to earn a place in the XI. All Koeman does by having a fixed set of preferred starters is kill competition in the squad, and heap pressure on the players who are not playing well. 

After the last two games, Davies, Niasse, Kenny and possibly Vlasic should all get starts against Limassol and/or Burnley. What's the point of having a squad otherwise?

It's an age old dilemna and it happens time and time again. If Koeman signed Niasse for 50 mil he would have given him 10 lockers and played every minute. Every manager seems to fall into the same trap.

 

The one person I can think of instantly that hasn't is Mourinho with Mkhitarian and Lindelof. 

 

I don't think you need to be playing competitive matches together to gel. That is ALL done on the training ground and manifests itself on the pitch. I'd also strongly argue that the relationship between players is gained more through a good system and player selection than anything else, pairing players together where their strengths and weaknesses work together. Terry and Carvalho didn't work well together because of minutes on a pitch. They worked well because they suited the system Mourinho wanted to play and they suited each other. 

Anyone hoping that the players will all suddenly gel is clutching at straws. Some players may need fitness like Siggy, some may need to adapt to the league (Klaasen / Sandro) but I don't think there is any evidence to say that it must be learnt on the pitch. The Arsenal old boys always take credit for kicking lumps out of Henry on the training pitch so that he knew what it was about. When he realised, that was when he came good. 

In terms of partnerships, the only good area I can see is in the middle with Gana, Schneiderlin and Davies. Them 3 have everything I would want in an aggressive midfield 3 (maybe bar Gana being a slightly better footballer). I can't think of another example in the team.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

It's an age old dilemna and it happens time and time again. If Koeman signed Niasse for 50 mil he would have given him 10 lockers and played every minute. Every manager seems to fall into the same trap.

 

The one person I can think of instantly that hasn't is Mourinho with Mkhitarian and Lindelof. 

 

I don't think you need to be playing competitive matches together to gel. That is ALL done on the training ground and manifests itself on the pitch. I'd also strongly argue that the relationship between players is gained more through a good system and player selection than anything else, pairing players together where their strengths and weaknesses work together. Terry and Carvalho didn't work well together because of minutes on a pitch. They worked well because they suited the system Mourinho wanted to play and they suited each other. 

Anyone hoping that the players will all suddenly gel is clutching at straws. Some players may need fitness like Siggy, some may need to adapt to the league (Klaasen / Sandro) but I don't think there is any evidence to say that it must be learnt on the pitch. The Arsenal old boys always take credit for kicking lumps out of Henry on the training pitch so that he knew what it was about. When he realised, that was when he came good. 

In terms of partnerships, the only good area I can see is in the middle with Gana, Schneiderlin and Davies. Them 3 have everything I would want in an aggressive midfield 3 (maybe bar Gana being a slightly better footballer). I can't think of another example in the team.

Good post... My only issue with this is it's only part of the problem with players gelling together.

My issue is some players own individual games are shite currently. This is the managers issue when he continuously picks underperforming players.