Ronald Koeman

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

But he did make the changes though, and he made them very soon after we went behind. For me he was never going to get the sack before today, so to think we should bin him now after a win is just plain cloud-cuckoo-land stuff. We really weren't that poor in the first half, sure we were abject at the start of the second and conceded but he made the subs (from the people he'd selected to be on the bench) ten minutes in; they were the right ones and we won the game. He doesn't attempt to take credit in the interview, he credits the players.

I think we need a TT chill-pill cabinet.

He made the subs that won us the game? No, he made the subs that blatantly should have been on the pitch in the first place. If you're gonna pick on form then they should have started.

I hate this whole he seen the mistakes and changed it. We shouldn't be in that predicament against Bournemouth at home in the first place.

And to say we played well enough first half... I watched a half were we looked the same as all season. Slow... Too many touches and so open at the back.

[Aidan]

For me he has got until Christmas and then if things haven't turned around he has to go

[Palfy]

Listening to koeman is painful, to me he's floundering under the pressure what he says make less sense than his player selections.

[MikeO]

11 minutes ago, Aidan Lewis said:

For me he has got until Christmas and then if things haven't turned around he has to go

I'd not put a time scale on it personally, if we lose every game from now until Christmas we'll be well and truly screwed (extreme example which plainly won't happen) so he'd need to be gone before then. For me he has until it's obvious he's taking us nowhere, and that's not yet imo; other people think it is. Fair enough, time will tell. 

[Newty82]

How come Christmas seems to be the Evertonian cut off for decisions? The ultimate time of year to decide success or failure?!

[Zoo 2.0]

43 minutes ago, MikeO said:

But he did make the changes though, and he made them very soon after we went behind. For me he was never going to get the sack before today, so to think we should bin him now after a win is just plain cloud-cuckoo-land stuff. We really weren't that poor in the first half, sure we were abject at the start of the second and conceded but he made the subs (from the people he'd selected to be on the bench) ten minutes in; they were the right ones and we won the game. He doesn't attempt to take credit in the interview, he credits the players.

I think we need a TT chill-pill cabinet.

Great post Mike. I think that any fan has the right to criticise the manager when he makes mistake but to then still bash him when he has done well just doesn't sit right with me. People's biggest complaints about Moyes and Martinez was that they made subs too late in the game to have an impact, Koeman spotted that we were going to lose and changed things around so that we didn't bringing on Tom Davies who was involved in two goals and Oumar Niasse who got them. 

1 hour ago, yamar said:

Does anyone think Koeman could still go after that, even though we won?

No.

11 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

How come Christmas seems to be the Evertonian cut off for decisions? The ultimate time of year to decide success or failure?!

I'm guessing because it's the perfect time to make a change. If by Christmas things aren't being run to an acceptable standard then the manager has had enough time in the season (i.e. - five months) to make things happen and obviously doesn't have the knowledge or skill to get what the fans expect out of the players. By sacking the manager at Christmas the new boss (providing he is appointed in good time) has five months himself to get things the way he wants it and hopefully do what the other boss couldn't. 

[Quinn31]

I don't get it. We got 3 points, why is everyone moaning?

We were MUCH better the first 25 minutes of the match than we've been all season, then Bournemouth grew into the game. We were weak after halftime and they nicked a goal, and then we got back into the game.

I don't care how it gets done, but I want three points each week. We have Burnley and Brighton next, lets see if we get good results from them but I don't get why were are acting like Koeman is downtrodden after 3 points. There are 32 league matches to go, so I'll see how the next 6-7 matches go before wanting to axe Koeman or annoint him as the next Johan Cruyff.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

I don't get it. We got 3 points, why is everyone moaning?

We were MUCH better the first 25 minutes of the match than we've been all season, then Bournemouth grew into the game. We were weak after halftime and they nicked a goal, and then we got back into the game.

I don't care how it gets done, but I want three points each week. We have Burnley and Brighton next, lets see if we get good results from them but I don't get why were are acting like Koeman is downtrodden after 3 points. There are 32 league matches to go, so I'll see how the next 6-7 matches go before wanting to axe Koeman or annoint him as the next Johan Cruyff.

Wait until the next 6-7 games and your season will be over already.

Surely you can see from today that we will struggle this season.

We were the better team the first 25 minutes because we had more ball posession. They were more productive with it than us though.

[Quinn31]

1 minute ago, yamar said:

Wait until the next 6-7 games and your season will be over already.

Surely you can see from today that we will struggle this season.

We were the better team the first 25 minutes because we had more ball posession. They were more productive with it than us though.

I've been an Everton fan long enough to remember us thinking we were in a relegation fight in January under Moyes only to finish 7th.... What about you?

[Guest]

I was there for Walter Smith and Mike Walker pal so don't go there.

I've waited 30 years to see the success my family seen in the eighties. I've had to endure utter shit. So please don't preach to me.

This is our one big opportunity to stay on the tails of the elite with the investment we have, and that bellend is throwing it away like it's monopoly money.... So yes, I've been there seen it and felt the pain for years.

City got the money and went through Hughes then Mancini and the rest... For fuck sake one got them champions league and the other won the league. Koemans not even gonna get close... And you can quote me on that!

[Quinn31]

6 minutes ago, yamar said:

I was there for Walter Smith and Mike Walker pal so don't go there.

I've waited 30 years to see the success my family seen in the eighties. I've had to endure utter shit. So please don't preach to me.

This is our one big opportunity to stay on the tails of the elite with the investment we have, and that bellend is throwing it away like it's monopoly money.... So yes, I've been there seen it and felt the pain for years.

City got the money and went through Hughes then Mancini and the rest... For fuck sake one got them champions league and the other won the league. Koemans not even gonna get close... And you can quote me on that!

Apologies - didn't mean to make it seem like you aren't a long time Evertonian - more of just a reminder of our history and how in football, several of our teams have started poorly only to have a good season, and several other teams I've witnessed over the years have been great to start only to finish terribly (Arsenal.....)

Give it some time pal. We have several young players in the squad that still need to mature as well as several new players that need to adapt... and then we will still need to sign a few impact players to fill in holes. 

I also think that we don't have near the financial backing the Abramovich gave Chelsea or Sheikh Mansour gave City. To match what City did 5 years ago in spending, it would be 500m pounds in today's transfer market... Moshiri is very wealthy, but not nearly as much as the Sheikh or Abramovich. This is a long term project, so let's all try and show some patience.

 

*edit* one last thing, let's not forget what Everton stands for. We are a club that values youth and we are not a sacking club. It would be easy to spend a ton of money to bring in a bunch of top name players in their prime and to cycle through managers like Chelsea... Let's not forget who we are.

 

[pete0]

Just now, Quinn31 said:

Apologies - didn't mean to make it seem like you aren't a long time Evertonian - more of just a reminder of our history and how in football, several of our teams have started poorly only to have a good season, and several other teams I've witnessed over the years have been great to start only to finish terribly (Arsenal.....)

Give it some time pal. We have several young players in the squad that still need to mature as well as several new players that need to adapt... and then we will still need to sign a few impact players to fill in holes. 

I also think that we don't have near the financial backing the Abramovich gave Chelsea or Sheikh Mansour gave City. To match what City did 5 years ago in spending, it would be 500m pounds in today's transfer market... Moshiri is very wealthy, but not nearly as much as the Sheikh or Abramovich. This is a long term project, so let's all try and show some patience.

 

Koeman come in and said all the right things. However Bolasie then wined before his injury without Koeman dropping him, and then Gana was poor going into Christmas without Koeman trying something different. Luck alone meant Davies got a chance when Gana went to the African Cup of Nations and we had a good spell. We then went on a good spell with Davies being a massive influence in. Gana is reintroduced and we've been boring and disjointed since. I struggle to see what Koeman is doing to take us forward. Why is he getting the big bucks?  

[Quinn31]

1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Koeman come in and said all the right things. However Bolasie then wined before his injury without Koeman dropping him, and then Gana was poor going into Christmas without Koeman trying something different. Luck alone meant Davies got a chance when Gana went to the African Cup of Nations and we had a good spell. We then went on a good spell with Davies being a massive influence in. Gana is reintroduced and we've been boring and disjointed since. I struggle to see what Koeman is doing to take us forward. Why is he getting the big bucks?  

He took us from 11th (2x) to 7th. 

Also, who would you rather have as manager?

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

He took us from 11th (2x) to 7th. 

Also, who would you rather have as manager?

Not really an achievement. Martinez was sacked because we weren't at least 7th. 

Alladyce would get us 7th. I'll say u again, what is Koeman getting the money for? 

[Quinn31]

Just now, pete0 said:

Not really an achievement. Martinez was sacked because we weren't at least 7th. 

Alladyce would get us 7th. I'll say u again, what is Koeman getting the money for? 

What has the club done to warrant anything better than 7th given the resources of Arsenal, Spurs, City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool?

Oh wait, this our first year where we've really had a large transfer budget to work with.

[c1982]

14 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

Oh wait, this our first year where we've really had a large transfer budget to work with.

Just as the market inflates to crazy levels... typical!!!

[Paddock]

37 minutes ago, yamar said:

I was there for Walter Smith and Mike Walker pal so don't go there.

I've waited 30 years to see the success my family seen in the eighties. I've had to endure utter shit. So please don't preach to me.

This is our one big opportunity to stay on the tails of the elite with the investment we have, and that bellend is throwing it away like it's monopoly money.... So yes, I've been there seen it and felt the pain for years.

City got the money and went through Hughes then Mancini and the rest... For fuck sake one got them champions league and the other won the league. Koemans not even gonna get close... And you can quote me on that!

But we don't have even remotely a fraction of Citys wealth so that point is mute.

[pete0]

21 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

What has the club done to warrant anything better than 7th given the resources of Arsenal, Spurs, City, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool?

Oh wait, this our first year where we've really had a large transfer budget to work with.

We went and paid out for a 'top' manager who should be adding value to get more out of what most would consider to be the 7th best squad in the league. He's then spent £200m got us exactly where I'd expect to be without that spending and with a standard premier league manager. 

[Hafnia]

20 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

He took us from 11th (2x) to 7th. 

Also, who would you rather have as manager?

Put into context.... martinez took us to 5th to 11th for the sack.  The players who got us 5th were pretty much there when koeman took over. 

 

Koeman inherited a team that had finished 5th that required defensive organisation...

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

We went and paid out for a 'top' manager who should be adding value to get more out of what most would consider to be the 7th best squad in the league. He's then spent £200m got us exactly where I'd expect to be without that spending and with a standard premier league manager. 

So if Allardyce/Pulis/Hughes had taken over at the beginning of last season and spent no money you still think we'd have finished 7th?

[MikeO]

8 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Put into context.... martinez took us to 5th to 11th for the sack.  The players who got us 5th were pretty much there when koeman took over. 

Koeman inherited a team that had finished 5th that required defensive organisation...

Brilliant Haf, just write off two complete seasons because they obviously didn't have any effect on the players at all; they were all still at exactly the same level of ability and confidence they'd been at before; and the reason we finished 5th in 13/14 was because of Moyes's defensive set up wasn't it (according to popular wisom)? So what you're saying is Moyes was a great manager and those who've followed have squandered his legacy. I don't remember you feeling that way at the time.

[Paddock]

14 minutes ago, pete0 said:

We went and paid out for a 'top' manager who should be adding value to get more out of what most would consider to be the 7th best squad in the league. He's then spent £200m got us exactly where I'd expect to be without that spending and with a standard premier league manager. 

And the teams above have Mourinho, Guardiola, Conte, Pochetino, Klopp and Wenger. Which one of those do you think we could have attracted?

we got the best that was available and willing to come to us.

[c1982]

Koeman deserves the stick he's getting. Hindsight suggests the summer dealings weren't as good as early business suggested and has left us with an imbalanced squad which has impacted on what's been a very poor start to the season. Should he be sacked? Not in my opinion but I appreciate animosity shown towards him. His stubbornness is a negative but he's brought Niasse back in, left the door open for Barkley, kept Mirallas in contention, etc - he's maybe not as stubborn as some would criticise him for.

Long-term, Koeman et al are laying some very solid foundations... Pickford, Kenny, Holgate, Keane, Davies, Klaassen, Lookman, Sandro, Vlasic, DCL, 'Barkley' are all in and around the first team and he's giving them plenty of game time - add to that there's currently 8 (?) players on-loan at Championship level (plus Onyekuru). We've replaced and promoted players to u23s too. There's plenty to be optimistic about - Koeman may not be the long term answer but, to me, we've progressed from the moment he's been in charge.

[Hafnia]

6 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Brilliant Haf, just write off two complete seasons because they obviously didn't have any effect on the players at all; they were all still at exactly the same level of ability and confidence they'd been at before; and the reason we finished 5th in 13/14 was because of Moyes's defensive set up wasn't it (according to popular wisom)? So what you're saying is Moyes was a great manager and those who've followed have squandered his legacy. I don't remember you feeling that way at the time.

Moyes was a negative manager who had ran out of ideas and the players had lost their spark with him.

Martinez came in an inspired a fearless approach he finished 5th.... a great season. His continued abandonment of any sort of defensive "get rid" cost him along with an over reliance on passing for the sake of passing.

Koeman took the same players and 'organised' them defensively is the best way is I would describe it. We finished 7th.... smashing.

Koeman has been given full support to change that squad... He's done so and made us look as bad as ive seen in a long time. 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Great post Mike. I think that any fan has the right to criticise the manager when he makes mistake but to then still bash him when he has done well just doesn't sit right with me. People's biggest complaints about Moyes and Martinez was that they made subs too late in the game to have an impact, Koeman spotted that we were going to lose and changed things around so that we didn't bringing on Tom Davies who was involved in two goals and Oumar Niasse who got them. 

No.

I'm guessing because it's the perfect time to make a change. If by Christmas things aren't being run to an acceptable standard then the manager has had enough time in the season (i.e. - five months) to make things happen and obviously doesn't have the knowledge or skill to get what the fans expect out of the players. By sacking the manager at Christmas the new boss (providing he is appointed in good time) has five months himself to get things the way he wants it and hopefully do what the other boss couldn't. 

If Koeman had spotted the problem he would have made the changes before they scored. Thats what he is getting paid for, not for being reactionary. By the time they came on we could have been 2 down if it wasn't for Pickford. 

 

Koeman has shown that he knows how to rectify things but I am extremely worried that he seems to have to make big system changes almost every match. Why can't he set the team up properly to start with?

[Hafnia]

6 minutes ago, Bailey said:

If Koeman had spotted the problem he would have made the changes before they scored. Thats what he is getting paid for, not for being reactionary. By the time they came on we could have been 2 down if it wasn't for Pickford. 

 

Koeman has shown that he knows how to rectify things but I am extremely worried that he seems to have to make big system changes almost every match. Why can't he set the team up properly to start with?

Frankly I find it beyond strange how he benched Davies and Kenny..   I find it odd that DCL has suffered similar despite clearly being our best forward option (bar niasse).

He is stubbornly sticking to something that doesnt work!!!

 

I don't get it. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

So if Allardyce/Pulis/Hughes had taken over at the beginning of last season and spent no money you still think we'd have finished 7th?

Not Hughes, but the other two yes. I'd add half the league managers to be able to as well. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Paddock said:

And the teams above have Mourinho, Guardiola, Conte, Pochetino, Klopp and Wenger. Which one of those do you think we could have attracted?

we got the best that was available and willing to come to us.

Mourinho if we'd have been ambitious from the off and jumped in there before Van Gaal was sacked. 

I wouldn't want Guardiola or Klopp. 

[rubecula]

I have lost any confidence I may have had with RK.  Unfortunately I have no idea who we could replace him with,  who in their right mind would want to take over from him now?  Maybe Unsy, but even then he might not want to take the poisoned chalice.

 

  We may, with a little bit of luck, get a top Italian manager, but even though I do not rate Koeman I would be loathe to get rid until we have a bloody good replacement lined up.

[Hafnia]

I think unsworth is ideal. The players know and respect him. He will transition the young talent into the side. 

The squad is very strong and probably over populated in the midfield.  We can get by with DCL Rooney niasse and sandro up front till January.

The defence is fine .... it's just koemans choices. 

Tom Davies should be first name in the midfield - an outstanding talent. If he played for man United or Chelsea he would be getting started as he is that good and game time is only going to make him better.