Dominic Calvert-Lewin

[Gwlad]

A person interviewing a candidate for a position forms an impression in the first minute. A quick judgement which IMO supports unconscious bias.

[Goodison Glory]

I think we should sell Dom.

Both he and Richie have high work rate but I honestly don't think Dom can play in the system that Frank will ultimately want aim for. That said, I have not seen us linked with too many replacements and I don't think the others mentioned (Simms etc) are up to the task (it would be good to give them some prem game time though)

 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Palf, I have unconscious and even conscious biases against people, based on their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. It's nearly impossible to live in our world, experience everything that makes us human, be influenced by everything around us, and not develop biases.

It's how we react and grow that is the difference. I recognize moments when I have a reaction based on a racist instinct of mine, and I take the time to think about why I had that reaction and try to be better the next time.

I never said that anyone who disagrees with Dom's modeling career is a KKK-loving, despicable human being who spews white supremacist language wherever they go. I was trying to make the point that we all have biases, and that maybe those factored in to how people have reacted to Dom's actions.

I respect you too much to get into a mud-slinging contest, and hopefully we can put this behind us.

I thank you for your post and in the years I have read your posts and conversed with you over political agendas I’ve come to view you as one of the good guys. Of course I recognise there is bias whether conscious or unconscious, my problem was the reference to black bias which whether you care to accept or not is a form of racism, and for me being associated as someone who has black biases because I don’t believe DCL should be being paid to do model shoots when his football was in such a poor place, doesn’t go down well in my world hence my reaction to your post. Personally I wish you hadn’t said it or had said people were biased towards him as a player instead of a black man, but it’s done now    and we all move on, you are happy with what you said and I’m happy that I have shown I’m no racist and none of my criticism of DCL came from a black bias. 

[Palfy]

32 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said:

I think we should sell Dom.

Both he and Richie have high work rate but I honestly don't think Dom can play in the system that Frank will ultimately want aim for. That said, I have not seen us linked with too many replacements and I don't think the others mentioned (Simms etc) are up to the task (it would be good to give them some prem game time though)

 

I don’t think we should sell him to replace a forward or striker is one of the hardest positions to fill, if Lampard can get the right players in other areas we may be able to play a style of football that allows DCL to be the poacher in the 6yrd box again as he was under Ancelotti. 

[Goodison Glory]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I don’t think we should sell him to replace a forward or striker is one of the hardest positions to fill, if Lampard can get the right players in other areas we may be able to play a style of football that allows DCL to be the poacher in the 6yrd box again as he was under Ancelotti. 

Agreed. My answer was based on we had to sell one of them....if we can keep both and do what we need to elsewhere. Happy days. 

[StevO]

11 hours ago, RPG said:

 

Dunlop alleges that Dom has received extra vitriol because he is black and there is nothing 'unconscious' about that. It is a specific allegation (totally without merit of course) of racism.

And the people who have assumed this is about them have taken it that way, as he hasn’t pointed any fingers or even said specifically on TT. And his following posts clarify he’s talking about unconscious bias as far as I’m concerned.

edit: which he has since clarified but I hadn’t read at the time.

[Formby]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I thank you for your post and in the years I have read your posts and conversed with you over political agendas I’ve come to view you as one of the good guys.

There are bad guys on TT???? 

[Romey 1878]

14 minutes ago, Formby said:

There are bad guys on TT???? 

There was once an absolute cunt on here with the username EFCfan2007. Caused no end of shit. 

[Formby]

44 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

There was once an absolute cunt on here with the username EFCfan2007. Caused no end of shit. 

Had to look that one up! 

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

There was once an absolute cunt on here with the username EFCfan2007. Caused no end of shit. 

Millwall was quite a character as well.

[Romey 1878]

At least Zoo knew.

I’m wasted on here I tell you!

[London Blue]

19 hours ago, RPG said:

I am firmly of the opinion that it was inappropriate for DCL to allow those pictures to be published in a declared attempt to divide opinion at a time when he was making no contribution whatsoever to his clubs desperate fight for survival. So, yes, I would say that makes you wrong. Whether or not you choose to change your opinion or not is none of my concern. I won't be changing mine.

His actual quote was 

'I am more than happy to be a standard-bearer for new flamboyance. Why not? You've only got one life,' he told GQ Hype. 'That's one of my mottos. Do what makes you happy. For me, wearing clothes and suits that divide opinion is what I like doing, so I'm going to continue doing it.' 

What your saying is that unless he is scoring goals for us he should not be allowed to express his opinions on any subject, including what clothes he as an adult chooses to wear.

What is it about DCL's fashion choices that gets you so irate, or is it something else?  

 

[Goodison Glory]

and there was me thinking we were moving on......

[Cornish Steve]

If Dom married the sister of Ainsley Maitland-Niles and they had a son called Colin who grew up to be a fab footballer, would commentators have to learn to say Colin Maitland-Niles-Calvert-Lewin?

"And Maitland-Niles-Calvert-Lewin passes the ball to Oxlade-Chamberlain-Alexander-Arnold..."

[London Blue]

So DCL should just do nothing but sit on a treatment table for months as he recovers from injury?

Hard to see how wearing clothes and talking to the press about fashion could hamper his recovery, let alone be seen as hurting the club. Maybe you think every player should only focus on football and have no life outside, not great for mental health by the way, and mope around in sack cloth and ashes every time we lose.

Your reasons for criticising DCL become more and more ridiculous with every post.

[Formby]

8 hours ago, London Blue said:

His actual quote was 

'I am more than happy to be a standard-bearer for new flamboyance. Why not? You've only got one life,' he told GQ Hype. 'That's one of my mottos. Do what makes you happy. For me, wearing clothes and suits that divide opinion is what I like doing, so I'm going to continue doing it.' 

What your saying is that unless he is scoring goals for us he should not be allowed to express his opinions on any subject, including what clothes he as an adult chooses to wear.

What is it about DCL's fashion choices that gets you so irate, or is it something else?  

 

If that's his philosophy, then I applaud it. Of course, most Everton fans see DCL as a footballer first and foremost, but there are many people out there who will see him in a dress and feel he represents them in a different way. That is an equally important facet for a club, especially an inclusive, tolerant people's club. I remember reading many years ago about Graeme Le Saux talking about going to art galleries rather than nightclubs, in world that was decidely less tolerant of difference, and how refeshing his view was. I find DCL's equally refreshing. 

Whether or not he should be doing such things when the club is not doing well, we have no idea what the other lads are doing, so how can we compare? Would we like it if they were getting drunk, taking drugs, and getting in fights to relieve the pressure? Probably not. Do we want them to go to art galleries? Maybe. Fame is difficult. Having too much money (too young) is difficult. I don't think he has disrespected the club at all and I think it says nothing about his commitment to the club. It shows me he is a confident and engaging lad, one who is prepared to be himself.

The club has, I believe, said nothing about it contravening their codes of behaviour, or fined him, so I am sure they feel the same way about him. If Frank thinks DCL isn't focused, then I am sure he will be moved on this summer. If Frank is happy with him, if the club is happy with him, there's nothing to see - except a young man making himself happy. The great diving header that kept us up made us happy, too.

One final point on the old corporate world of suits and ties. I'm personally glad we don't have it. It was merely a veneer of respectability, a coat of varnish for a rotten frame. Let the world move on.

[Shukes]

Let’s just accept.

1: Some people don’t want footballers to live as human beings but be more of a robot that focuses solely on football and hasn’t got time to live, love, or have any interests.

2: The rest of us are right!

Job done, everything sorted…. Now let’s get back to football

[London Blue]

6 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Let’s just accept.

1: Some people don’t want footballers to live as human beings but be more of a robot that focuses solely on football and hasn’t got time to live, love, or have any interests.

2: The rest of us are right!

Job done, everything sorted…. Now let’s get back to football

Hear, hear.

 

[Romey 1878]

DCL has done nothing but represent this club well in all his time here, has done nothing but put the message across that he is extremely grateful and honoured that he's been given the opportunity to play for Everton Football Club. He's a very driven individual that is determined to make the most of his ability and opportunities in football, so there's not a doubt in my mind that if these things away from football were having a negative impact on him being able to be the best footballer he can possibly be then he wouldn't be doing them.

[Fosse Captain]

He plays as a focal point up top. Very good in the air, holds the ball up well and has proven (previously) he can score goals. That gives the team something to build off. 

I'd personally be gutted to see him leave, if FL can get a decent midfield around him, its a no brainer. Could be the perfect foil for a fit, on-form Ali (?) etc 

Obviously lots of 'ifs'  'buts' and 'maybes' about all that tho!!

 

[StevO]

17 hours ago, RPG said:

Let me try and make this simple for the hard of thinking. It is not so much what DCL is/was doing (though I do think it inappropriate). It is more the timing and public nature of it that comes across to many as 'My club are in the shit but I'm having a great time thank you very much and fuck you.' That is not the attitude I like to see from any Everton player on or off the pitch. Think of a simple analogy. You are working every hour imaginable to try to keep your business afloat and just put food on the table (you may have to make some workers redundant) when your next door neighbour, fully aware of your dire financial situation, takes great delight in telling you that he has just had a promotion and a pay rise and is now getting away on a long and expensive holiday as you only have one life and he finds all the bad news surrounding him depressing. Hardly tactful is it!

Furthermore, the time DCL spent modelling could and should have been spent helping himself to recover fitness and form. If he wasn't fit to play he should divert all his energy into regaining fitness. If he was fit to play but was crap, he should divert all his energy into regaining his form. He chose not to do that to the extent that he could have done. DCL has made some bad choices and I would be happy to see him leave now if we can get a decent price for him. On the other hand if he can show his prime employer and their fans the commitment that they have the right to expect (on and off the pitch) then I would be ok for him to stay.

Is your employer aware that instead of focusing on your job you’re so concerned about Everton football club? After all we should all just be fully focused on our jobs and dedicating every hour to helping improve our performance at work. 
Come to think of it I should probably log off TT before my boss finds out, but then it’s a bank holiday so might be alright for today. 

[StevO]

11 hours ago, Formby said:

If that's his philosophy, then I applaud it. Of course, most Everton fans see DCL as a footballer first and foremost, but there are many people out there who will see him in a dress and feel he represents them in a different way. That is an equally important facet for a club, especially an inclusive, tolerant people's club. I remember reading many years ago about Graeme Le Saux talking about going to art galleries rather than nightclubs, in world that was decidely less tolerant of difference, and how refeshing his view was. I find DCL's equally refreshing. 

 

There aren’t any people out there who have seen him in a dress. Apart from maybe his girlfriend, but what they do behind closed doors is their business. If it’s the same girlfriend I last saw him photoed with Id certainly put a dress on for her. Would have to be a big dress though. 

If you have seen him in a dress I’d suggest it was a fake photo. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Can we just draw a line under this?

Some people think that a footballer having his picture taken or wearing clothes they don’t approve of would somehow detract from his footballing career/ performances and make him scared to put his head in where it hurts

Others think that is totally ludicrous and amounts to a character assassination and believe a person is entitled to have a private life and opinion away from the pitch

Now somehow the race card has even found it’s way into it, this has now become even worse than the Lukaku thread and is thoroughly depressing 

It’s clear there is no middle ground so can we please just move on?

[Palfy]

37 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Can we just draw a line under this?

Some people think that a footballer having his picture taken or wearing clothes they don’t approve of would somehow detract from his footballing career/ performances and make him scared to put his head in where it hurts

Others think that is totally ludicrous and amounts to a character assassination and believe a person is entitled to have a private life and opinion away from the pitch

Now somehow the race card has even found it’s way into it, this has now become even worse than the Lukaku thread and is thoroughly depressing 

It’s clear there is no middle ground so can we please just move on?

As one of the protagonists is this I agree completely that it’s time to call time on this subject, everyone who wanted to have their say on this should have done so by now, so let’s agree to disagree no matter what side you are coming from, before it gets to far out of control and personal insults and vendettas over take is it not better that we walk away from this as friends so we have the opportunity to enjoy each other’s thoughts in the future  

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, RPG said:

Its a judgement call and, imho, DCL got it wrong. When you are in the public eye, get paid £millions a year and are injured or in poor form, I think the club and supporters have a right to expect you to devote 100% of your efforts to regaining fitness and form. DCL left himself exposed to accusations that he did not do that, then compounded the error by coming out with his 'I like to divide opinion and I will continue doing what makes me happy' quote. To many, that sounded too much like 'me before team' and is a very poor attitude to display. The bar is different between the likes of you and I and DCL purely because you and I are so emotionally invested in the club that he is paid £millions to represent. That gives DCL added responsibilities (for which he is handsomely paid) and he did not handle those responsibilities well imho.

You're assuming he didn't give 100%?

He didn't leave himself open at all. If anything his was honest, and 100% correct.

Can you please drop the divide opinion thing? He clearly refers to fashion in the full statement, so taking part of the statement out of context to justify this ongoing hole-digging exercise is just wrong and tedious.

Going to skip over how nonsensical someone's relatively high wages means that that someone isn't allowed to have a voice or enjoy life however they see fit.

Lastly, "To many" (even though its relatively minute proportion) people need to look at themselves for reading into things that weren't there or said. It's a poor reflection of those handful of people with archaic views and misdirected anger and self-estime issues who are the real problem, rather than a young lad trying to enjoy his life to the maximum.

[Matt]

Sorry, Palf and Dunc. Been ignoring the thread and working my way backwards. Will try to stop now

 

[FairWooney]

Lets all just enjoy this image again and get along!  

[MikeO]

Skybet have him at 1/4 to be at Newcastle next season.

[London Blue]

1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Skybet have him at 1/4 to be at Newcastle next season.

They will have to pay quite a bit for him, no European football next season so if he moves its for money.

[patto]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

They will have to pay quite a bit for him, no European football next season so if he moves its for money.

What do you think is a realistic fee for him I think we need at least 60 million.