Liverpool (Home) Monday December 19

[Palfy]

We all know the loss of McCarthy was a massive game changer, but to try and fill that loss with Barry just compounded the situation, we know Barry doesn't have the legs for a high intensity game, it was a substitution that lacked any real thought, Holgate should have been used we needed his pace he would have been more effective with his speed and tackling, even if we put him in Mori's place and put Mori in McCarthy's position, as it was Barry was introduced and wasn't able to make any contribution.

Then we saw Valencia taken off and replaced by Calvert I really can't work that out Valencia was and had more to offer than Lennon, so take Lennon off and stick Mirallas on but don't take off player that was still in the game and put a young lad on and play him out of position.

Now I'm not saying we could have won the game if things where done differently but we could have hung on to the draw.

[Btay]

We need 2 forwards and a number 10 like coutinho, technical, sharp in mind with the ability to run the lines and interchange effectively.

 

January can't come quick enough.

 

 

Players to sell:-

 

Lukaku - £50m, just get the sale done. Tremendous finisher when that's all he's asked to do. His overall game exposes the team far too often. It's not all about him but for a player to have such a value yet leaves us vulnerable to counter attack after counter attack can't be mitigated.

 

Cleverley:- £7m.... ideal player for a Burnley. Not a top half team.

 

Mccarthy:- if these injuries keep happening then he has to go. He's been great of late too. Get Schneiderlin in. Made of glass nowadays.

 

Barkley:- if a team offers £40m then it may be time for a fresh start. I believe he has it to become a great player but maybe that will be away from the frustrations of those expecting so much. He lacks the mental strength to be the local great hope.

Let's get this number 10 and keep lukaku. I really think a mertens esq player behind lukaku is going to transform us. I want Ross to come good but his final ball is just so far off.

[Hafnia]

Let's get this number 10 and keep lukaku. I really think a mertens esq player behind lukaku is going to transform us. I want Ross to come good but his final ball is just so far off.

Keep him for what mate? Just being Johnny on the spot? A supposed £60m player needs to be able to do the basics and he can't. He worked hard last night but his quality is shite.

 

Forget his size and everything else that you see, watch him as a football player. He's a liability. Time after time the ball comes back at us when all we ask him to do is control it and lay it off. Our midfield and defence had no respite last night. He is the out ball and can't look after it.

 

A new number ten behind rom isn't going to alleviate the issue of Rom not being able to bring the number 10 into play. The better the number 10 the more likely they will be to expect sharper passing and ability to control their snappy interplay.

 

The longer we keep him the quicker his valuation will fall.

 

I seen Coleman despair at him last night. Not for the first time either. The team is not strong enough to carry a player who is effectively a poacher playing in a target man role.

 

His passing accuracy was 45% again last night. Gana was 85%.... it's unacceptable.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Hafnia

[c1982]

They played shite and still beat us. We played ok and still lost.

 

They are a much better side with better players a better team spirit and a better manager.

 

It kills me to say it but it's the truth. Any Liverpool fan will tell you they were poor tonight whilst we are raving about our ahem first half performance.

 

Gulf is huge mate

They are going to be though. When you throw as much as they do at players over how ever long they've been doing it we just haven't been able to compete in the history of the Premier League. We may now be in a position to start signing the calibre of player to compete higher and more consistently but it will take time. Look at their midfield and attack yesterday - every single player cost in the £20-30m bracket and that's without the likes of Sturridge and Coutinho (who obviously they got for steals but we couldn't afford either at the time). Look at the top 6 - there's no surprises there - they've been the 6 biggest spending teams consistently for a long, long time and as a result have much stronger squads than us and most others. Leicester was a one off - they did amazing and have created their own £30m players in Kante, Mahrez and Vardy - now we've got one of the masterminds behind it working for us but it's not likely that such a 'cheap' squad will do something like that again any time soon.

 

There's so much to do at Everton and it will take time. We were much the better team in the first half but our substitutions showed the glaring lack of depth our squad possesses. We are top 10 at best this season and need a massive rebuild in the next 2 windows. I for one believe we have the right people in charge to do this although many will disagree.

[Palfy]

Haf how did he perform in other areas compared to his usual stats particularly his movement and ground covered.

[nogs]

We need 2 forwards and a number 10 like coutinho, technical, sharp in mind with the ability to run the lines and interchange effectively.

 

January can't come quick enough.

 

 

Players to sell:-

 

Lukaku - £50m, just get the sale done. Tremendous finisher when that's all he's asked to do. His overall game exposes the team far too often. It's not all about him but for a player to have such a value yet leaves us vulnerable to counter attack after counter attack can't be mitigated.

 

Cleverley:- £7m.... ideal player for a Burnley. Not a top half team.

 

Mccarthy:- if these injuries keep happening then he has to go. He's been great of late too. Get Schneiderlin in. Made of glass nowadays.

 

Barkley:- if a team offers £40m then it may be time for a fresh start. I believe he has it to become a great player but maybe that will be away from the frustrations of those expecting so much. He lacks the mental strength to be the local great hope.

I don't disagree with these but I'd say hold off til summer for Barkley, McCarthy and Rom. Get reinforcements in, see if some competition and class can ignite Ross and Rom up front, and hope James gets over his injuries coz I think he's class when fit. I'd sell Cleverley, Mirallas, Oviedo, Gibson and Kone in Jan, with a question mark over Barry. We're now a worse side when he plays

 

Sent from my Fusion5 using Tapatalk

[Hafnia]

Haf how did he perform in other areas compared to his usual stats particularly his movement and ground covered.

He ran more... I could tell you that. Movement wise not intelligent.

 

Only robles had a lower pass completion last night.

[JoeQuince]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38372164

 

A bit further down... I did think that at the time that Lovren was going to go and being unsurprised when Coleman ended up with it.

I pointed it out as it happened. Lovren should've been off for running all the way up there and instigating that

[Paddock]

They are going to be though. When you throw as much as they do at players over how ever long they've been doing it we just haven't been able to compete in the history of the Premier League. We may now be in a position to start signing the calibre of player to compete higher and more consistently but it will take time. Look at their midfield and attack yesterday - every single player cost in the £20-30m bracket and that's without the likes of Sturridge and Coutinho (who obviously they got for steals but we couldn't afford either at the time). Look at the top 6 - there's no surprises there - they've been the 6 biggest spending teams consistently for a long, long time and as a result have much stronger squads than us and most others. Leicester was a one off - they did amazing and have created their own £30m players in Kante, Mahrez and Vardy - now we've got one of the masterminds behind it working for us but it's not likely that such a 'cheap' squad will do something like that again any time soon.

 

There's so much to do at Everton and it will take time. We were much the better team in the first half but our substitutions showed the glaring lack of depth our squad possesses. We are top 10 at best this season and need a massive rebuild in the next 2 windows. I for one believe we have the right people in charge to do this although many will disagree.

I'm not arguing they shouldn't be mate just pointing out that they are.

 

On a side note, everyones slating Koeman for not playing younger lads then complains when he does. Valencia was shite last.night .

[Romey 1878]

Valencia was shite last.night .

 

He made Lukaku's ball control look like Messi's .

[Paddock]

 

He made Lukaku's ball control look like Messi's .

Glad you noticed too, he's boss though, feet like evo stick ?

 

 

He deserved to be subbed he put a young lad on (what a lot were screaming for) the lads clearly not ready so now Koemans clueless.

 

I give up.

[Hafnia]

Valencia by no means was great but he did alot more than he's getting credit for. No end product but did anyone?

 

Interesting that saying he was shite and made Roms touch look like messi...

 

Rom made 33 pass attempts - all short and completed just 15 of them 45%

 

Valencia 12 passes and completed 9 of them - 75%

 

Valencia made as many ball recoveries as gana - 6. Coleman led on 8. Rom 0.

 

Lukaku was the only outfield player not to attempt a tackle in the whole game.

 

So whilst I don't think Valencia is the answer to our prayers he is showing qualities we need versus those we aren't seeing from the main man.

[Hafnia]

Can't argue with that but I think you're way too optimistic in your valuations. We'd be lucky to get £5m for Cleverley but we could send him back to Villa as PX on their left back.

 

Barkley has been dismal. His head has gone, whether it's the pressure of Goodison Park or he's had his head turned but I don't think his future is at Everton. I'd take anything over £20m for him now.

 

Romelu, well if we can turn a profit then fine, but honestly I don't think the top sides want him. Certainly not at Chelsea with Conte there. So it's PSG in my opinion. I'd take anything over £40m.

 

Bare in mind I'm fucking depressed right now :-/

Twitter is an interesting barometer. Last night both barkley and Lukaku were getting shit. So was Valencia but from West ham fans ironically. I thought he was ok for what we needed in terms of having a go.

 

I would be surprised if we get anywhere near £60m for Lukaku. Recent media attention has switched from his goals into his enptitude as a front player.

 

No top club is gonna splurge that type of money on him. Have we ever had a solid bid for him other than paper talk?

 

I just wish we got koeman before they signed mane. What a player he is.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Hafnia

[Romey 1878]

Don't know why you're quoting his passing stats to contradict what I said when I was talking about the ball bouncing off him and usually in to touch. He did work his bollocks off though, he was shattered by the time he was subbed.

 

He's been good for us but he wasn't last night. Simple as that.

[Cornish Steve]

We all know the loss of McCarthy was a massive game changer, but to try and fill that loss with Barry just compounded the situation, we know Barry doesn't have the legs for a high intensity game, it was a substitution that lacked any real thought, Holgate should have been used we needed his pace he would have been more effective with his speed and tackling, even if we put him in Mori's place and put Mori in McCarthy's position, as it was Barry was introduced and wasn't able to make any contribution.

Then we saw Valencia taken off and replaced by Calvert I really can't work that out Valencia was and had more to offer than Lennon, so take Lennon off and stick Mirallas on but don't take off player that was still in the game and put a young lad on and play him out of position.

Now I'm not saying we could have won the game if things where done differently but we could have hung on to the draw.

 

It's more basic than that: The game tactics called for a different bench. Where was Davies?

[Hafnia]

Don't know why you're quoting his passing stats to contradict what I said when I was talking about the ball bouncing off him and usually in to touch. He did work his bollocks off though, he was shattered by the time he was subbed.

 

He's been good for us but he wasn't last night. Simple as that.

Are you honestly saying that his touch was worse than Lukakus? Seriously Romey... the number of times the ball bounced off Rom was becoming a joke. Coleman launched at him in the second half after he lost the ball twice in 10 seconds. Was like bambi on ice.

 

Valencia looked great one minute them dodgy the next but his ball retention was better than Roms without a shadow of doubt.

 

Rom had his best game in the air that I've seen.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Hafnia

[Romey 1878]

Are you honestly saying that his touch was worse than Lukakus? Seriously Romey... the number of times the ball bounced off Rom was becoming a joke. Coleman launched at him in the second half after he lost the ball twice in 10 seconds. Was like bambi on ice.

Valencia looked great one minute them dodgy the next but his ball retention was better than Roms without a shadow of doubt.

Rom had his best game in the air that I've seen.

I'm saying it wasn't great, it was crap. Our control of the ball was woeful from the majority of our side though, so I'm not singling him out. I don't know how so many professional footballers can be so shit at a basic thing like looking after the ball. Our players look like they're having a bomb fired at them.

[JoeQuince]

 

It's more basic than that: The game tactics called for a different bench. Where was Davies?

Steve, as always, bringing some sanity!

 

No Davies (or Deuolofeu, I would add) in favor of a bench that for the most part lacked creativity and the ability to hold onto the ball. As a result, when McCarthy came off, it was either going to be Cleverley (light-weight but useful enough with the ball) or Barry (strong, but too slow to keep up with the pace of the derby). And, taking Valencia (already a square peg in a round hole) off for another striker (whose use of the ball and ability to retain possession aren't exactly his strong suits) forced to play the wing and defend was another poor decision that could've been averted. Mirallas made the most sense, considering the bench we had and what was needed. But, again, a player like Davies (who can do the dirty work and move the ball) or Deulofeu (who doesn't do much dirty work, but uses the ball well, stretches play and requires attention) would've been great options. Instead, we had two backup right backs.

[MikeO]

I just broke my tablet screen by chucking it on the floor and it's dead. Good job I wasn't holding the laptop.

 

Bit disappointed by the lack of sympathy if I'm honest, was hoping someone would've set up a "just giving" page by now so I can finance a new one. Heartless bastards, that tablet died for you :shaking fist:.

[Hafnia]

 

Bit disappointed by the lack of sympathy if I'm honest, was hoping someone would've set up a "just giving" page by now so I can finance a new one. Heartless bastards, that tablet died for you :shaking fist:.

New screen about 30 rips Mike.... I'd fit it for you.

[Shukes]

 

Bit disappointed by the lack of sympathy if I'm honest, was hoping someone would've set up a "just giving" page by now so I can finance a new one. Heartless bastards, that tablet died for you :shaking fist:.

That would just enable you to punish yourself more.

[Btay]

Keep him for what mate? Just being Johnny on the spot? A supposed £60m player needs to be able to do the basics and he can't. He worked hard last night but his quality is shite.

 

Forget his size and everything else that you see, watch him as a football player. He's a liability. Time after time the ball comes back at us when all we ask him to do is control it and lay it off. Our midfield and defence had no respite last night. He is the out ball and can't look after it.

 

A new number ten behind rom isn't going to alleviate the issue of Rom not being able to bring the number 10 into play. The better the number 10 the more likely they will be to expect sharper passing and ability to control their snappy interplay.

 

The longer we keep him the quicker his valuation will fall.

 

I seen Coleman despair at him last night. Not for the first time either. The team is not strong enough to carry a player who is effectively a poacher playing in a target man role.

 

His passing accuracy was 45% again last night. Gana was 85%.... it's unacceptable.

I merely want to see him play with an intelligent, intricate number 10 behind him. I've stated and agreed with you that an all round striker would benefit us more now and maybe get more goals out of Barkley and co but I'd actually like to see us have that type of number 10. Ross has played the most through balls for us this season along with Barry at 3 each which is piss poor.

[MikeO]

New screen about 30 rips Mike.... I'd fit it for you.

It was actually a pretty knackered old one and the screen was scratched badly anyway, I'll just get a new one. Have permission from the boss on the condition I get her a new Bluetooth speaker for hers (mind you I did leave out the part about me slinging it into a corner, as far as she knows it was an accidental drop. Mum's the word).

[Paddock]

It was actually a pretty knackered old one and the screen was scratched badly anyway, I'll just get a new one. Have permission from the boss on the condition I get her a new Bluetooth speaker for hers (mind you I did leave out the part about me slinging it into a corner, as far as she knows it was an accidental drop. Mum's the word).

Tell her you lashed it at the wall because the red satins spawned a last minute goal and you're now buying a new more expensive one and when we get beat by Hull you'll be lashing that at the wall as well and volleying her speaker through the window.

 

Are you a man or a mouse ?

[MikeO]

Tell her you lashed it at the wall because the red satins spawned a last minute goal and you're now buying a new more expensive one and when we get beat by Hull you'll be lashing that at the wall as well and volleying her speaker through the window.

 

Are you a man or a mouse

 

Pass me the cheese.