General Election/UK Politics

[markjazzbassist]

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/15/946242592/support-for-scottish-independence-is-growing-partly-due-to-u-k-s-covid-19-respon

 

i hope they will one day be free from the british empire, i hope our scottish brothers and sisters can one day have their own country

[Romey 1878]

6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/15/946242592/support-for-scottish-independence-is-growing-partly-due-to-u-k-s-covid-19-respon

 

i hope they will one day be free from the british empire, i hope our scottish brothers and sisters can one day have their own country

I think it’ll be a bit of rude awakening for them if they ever do get to vote on it again and vote for independence. But I fully support them going for it, I’m not arsed about the UK and class myself as English. 

[MikeO]

29 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/15/946242592/support-for-scottish-independence-is-growing-partly-due-to-u-k-s-covid-19-respon

 

i hope they will one day be free from the british empire, i hope our scottish brothers and sisters can one day have their own country

As they are part of Britain the "empire" (not that any such thing has existed in any form since 1997, 1984 if you don't count Hong Kong) would "belong" to them as much as England so they can't be free from themselves.

And they had a referendum about leaving the UK just six years ago and decided not to 55.3% to 44.7%, so your colourful language hinting at poor Scots unwillingly labouring under the "British" yoke doesn't really hold up. If they wanted independence they'd have it already.

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

As they are part of Britain the "empire" (not that any such thing has existed in any form since 1997, 1984 if you don't count Hong Kong) would "belong" to them as much as England so they can't be free from themselves.

And they had a referendum about leaving the UK just six years ago and decided not to 55.3% to 44.7%, so your colourful language hinting at poor Scots unwillingly labouring under the "British" yoke doesn't really hold up. If they wanted independence they'd have it already.

If the campaign was anything like brexit I’m sure it was rife with misinformation and lies.  Also regardless of my wording the poll stated the majority prefer it now due to brexit and covid. 

There was another country that was told it would amount to nothing and needed the British too, seems to be doing just fine without them (USA).  I’m sure it will take the scots a while to find their footing but they will find their way.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

As they are part of Britain the "empire" (not that any such thing has existed in any form since 1997, 1984 if you don't count Hong Kong) would "belong" to them as much as England so they can't be free from themselves.

And they had a referendum about leaving the UK just six years ago and decided not to 55.3% to 44.7%, so your colourful language hinting at poor Scots unwillingly labouring under the "British" yoke doesn't really hold up. If they wanted independence they'd have it already.

Plus aren’t they disproportionately represented in Parliament in their favour? 
 

either way they have and have had for centuries their own country. It’s called Scotland. I’d be all for them going alone if I didn’t think it’d cripple them and destroy lives. Being part of a union is a good thing for a small country....

 

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

If the campaign was anything like brexit I’m sure it was rife with misinformation and lies.  Also regardless of my wording the poll stated the majority prefer it now due to brexit and covid. 

There was another country that was told it would amount to nothing and needed the British too, seems to be doing just fine without them (USA).  I’m sure it will take the scots a while to find their footing but they will find their way.

Was this the nation that bankrupted England after years of support and then refused to pay back the money? Easy to do well if you suddenly decide to not repay your debts, although I don’t think that’d fly 300+ years later

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/15/946242592/support-for-scottish-independence-is-growing-partly-due-to-u-k-s-covid-19-respon

 

i hope they will one day be free from the british empire, i hope our scottish brothers and sisters can one day have their own country

So do I they cost us billions a year, plus we might not see as much of Sturgeon on our TVs I swear she’s a drag artist

[Palfy]

25 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

If the campaign was anything like brexit I’m sure it was rife with misinformation and lies.  Also regardless of my wording the poll stated the majority prefer it now due to brexit and covid. 

There was another country that was told it would amount to nothing and needed the British too, seems to be doing just fine without them (USA).  I’m sure it will take the scots a while to find their footing but they will find their way.

You sound like a Trump supporter now. 

[markjazzbassist]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

You sound like a Trump supporter now. 

Got my trump shirt coming in the mail, need something else to wipe my ass with 

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Got my trump shirt coming in the mail, need something else to wipe my ass with 

I’ll send you a Scottish shirt

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55322985
 

Just scum. 

[pete0]

Looking past the joke, what an absolute cunt this bloke is. How can anyone support this cunt and the rest of them. Look at that face. 

 

 

[pete0]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/16/pay-gap-britain-between-executives-and-workers-obscene-says-union?fbclid=IwAR0YjC6LBlvjWRFTAQpFyHNefo7iPaJcX9EXbRlD5YfEOLkuhJwdVp4Hygo

For me the inequality proofs treacle down economics is a load of bollocks. The government shamelessly endorses it just so they can milk workers for even more.

[pete0]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/unicef-uk-hungry-children-food-school-food-matters/?fbclid=IwAR0_mQt-XXwM3hhkPvYQ_5ald655KTd4DkGnDE6ve8qUKjuUh-wuFNPhfs0

 

[pete0]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/16/theatre-of-the-absurd-as-boris-tells-country-obey-the-rules-dont-obey-the-rules?fbclid=IwAR1PBFJ4O_HMWn6xHEHdzwO4cGQSh-yOu3CwfzF5_bSHTHbeSrM7MFBM5lQ

Any Tory willing to defend their vote? Fucking shame on the lot of you.

 

[pete0]

 

 

[MikeO]

10 hours ago, pete0 said:

 

 

Couldn't agree more, it's an absolute farce.

[pete0]

 

[Matt]

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55408444
 

aren’t the Conservatives supposed to be the financially responsible party?

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55408444
 

aren’t the Conservatives supposed to be the financially responsible party?

It's still Labour's fault, I'm sure.

[pete0]

 

 

[Romey 1878]

Not because she had them deported? There’s a surprise. 

[pete0]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/worlds-media-ask-how-it-went-so-wrong-for-plague-island-britain-covid?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR0Ar0fesrzRemwnY7fVEmjSdf2Pdo-EPdJ07PQbGrY3-EZJMYuYwwY6Dq0

Plague island. That's how we're viewed thanks to the scum leading the country.

[Bailey]

On 03/12/2020 at 14:48, Matt said:

 they did a lot of things differently and much later than Europe

Sorry this is late, but no we didn't, at least not in the stage of the epidemic.

As we have seen throughout, timing varies wildly in terms of results. Wales did a Firebreak and cases have rocketed. 

Unless you shut the virus down immediately, which we didn’t have the opportunity to do and nor did many other large European countries, then you end up in this ongoing cycle. 

The good news is that at least the Govt have put a lot of resource into vaccine research and the genome tracing that has come to light recently. These are the things that will get us out of the epidemic and now we just need to hope they can organise the distribution which I am not that confident of! 

 

[MikeO]

On 26/12/2020 at 13:32, Bailey said:

Sorry this is late, but no we didn't, at least not in the stage of the epidemic.

As we have seen throughout, timing varies wildly in terms of results. Wales did a Firebreak and cases have rocketed. 

Unless you shut the virus down immediately, which we didn’t have the opportunity to do and nor did many other large European countries, then you end up in this ongoing cycle. 

The good news is that at least the Govt have put a lot of resource into vaccine research and the genome tracing that has come to light recently. These are the things that will get us out of the epidemic and now we just need to hope they can organise the distribution which I am not that confident of! 

British Medical Journal disagrees.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1932

Too little, too late, too flawed

The UK government and its advisers were confident that they were “well prepared” when covid-19 swept East Asia. The four-pronged plan of 3 March to contain, delay, research, and mitigate was supported by all UK countries and backed, they claimed, by science.1 With over 30 000 hospital and community deaths by 12 May, where did the plan go wrong?2 What was the role of public health in the biggest public health crisis since the Spanish flu of 1918? And what now needs to be done?

What is clear is that the UK’s response so far has neither been well prepared nor remotely adequate. The weakness of the preparations was exposed in 2016 by Exercise Cygnus, a pandemic simulation, and the necessary remedial steps were not taken.3 On 30 January, the World Health Organization declared a public health emergency of international concern and governments were urged to prepare for global spread of covid-19 from East Asia.4 Detailed case studies followed showing the need for high levels of mechanical ventilation and high death rates.56 But the UK ignored these warnings.

Delay and dilution

"By 11 March, Italy had taken firm public health action and was in full lockdown, followed closely by Spain and France. The UK’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) rejected lockdown, believing that the population would not accept it. SAGE, chaired by Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific adviser, reports into the Civil Contingencies Committee (popularly known as Cobra), which coordinates the governmental response to national or regional emergencies.7

One day later, the government inexplicably announced a move from the containment phase in its strategy to the delay phase.8 Chris Whitty, England’s chief medical officer, explained it was no longer necessary to identify every new case and that all testing capacity across the UK, despite major regional variation in cases, would be “pivoted” to hospital patients. NHS 111 and Public Health England teams working on contact tracing were confused and overwhelmed. WHO’s standard containment approach of find, test, treat, and isolate, which has worked well in countries that have successfully suppressed viral spread, was abandoned; entry via ports and airports remained unrestricted.9 There was no future plan for community based case finding, testing, and contact tracing. Procurement and delivery of testing resources was ineffective, despite a readymade viral test and offers of help from university and private sector laboratories.10

On 19 March, the status of covid-19 was downgraded from level 4, the highest threat level, to level 3 by the four nations group on high consequence infectious diseases and the Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens.11 This enabled the required standard of personal protective equipment to be lowered for staff in hospitals and to nurse patients in non-infectious disease settings. Meanwhile, a reckless policy of discharging older patients from hospitals to care homes without testing allowed the virus to spread and kick start a second epidemic of community infection.12

Matters worsened when Vallance initially rejected “eye catching measures” such as stopping mass gatherings or closing schools. To widespread criticism, he floated an approach to “build up some degree of herd immunity” founded on an erroneous view that the vast majority of cases would be mild, like influenza.13 When subsequent modelling estimated that 250 000 people might die in this scenario, but that physical distancing measures could limit deaths to about 20 000, a sharp reversal of policy followed.14 By the time the UK formally announced a lockdown with a huge package of economic support measures, almost two months of potential preparation and prevention time had been squandered.15 The delay in the face of emerging evidence that the Italian lockdown reduced viral transmission by about half16 looks likely to have cost many lives.

If the government failed in its duty to protect the public, it also failed to protect staff in the NHS and social care by not delivering sufficient amounts of personal protective equipment (PPE) of the right specification, again deviating from WHO advice.17 By late April, only 12% of hospital doctors felt fully protected from the virus at work, as staff deaths in health and social care began to rise.18 The broken promises on testing were matched by those on PPE."

etc etc

 

 

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

British Medical Journal disagrees.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1932

Too little, too late, too flawed

The UK government and its advisers were confident that they were “well prepared” when covid-19 swept East Asia. The four-pronged plan of 3 March to contain, delay, research, and mitigate was supported by all UK countries and backed, they claimed, by science.1 With over 30 000 hospital and community deaths by 12 May, where did the plan go wrong?2 What was the role of public health in the biggest public health crisis since the Spanish flu of 1918? And what now needs to be done?

What is clear is that the UK’s response so far has neither been well prepared nor remotely adequate. The weakness of the preparations was exposed in 2016 by Exercise Cygnus, a pandemic simulation, and the necessary remedial steps were not taken.3 On 30 January, the World Health Organization declared a public health emergency of international concern and governments were urged to prepare for global spread of covid-19 from East Asia.4 Detailed case studies followed showing the need for high levels of mechanical ventilation and high death rates.56 But the UK ignored these warnings.

Delay and dilution

"By 11 March, Italy had taken firm public health action and was in full lockdown, followed closely by Spain and France. The UK’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) rejected lockdown, believing that the population would not accept it. SAGE, chaired by Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific adviser, reports into the Civil Contingencies Committee (popularly known as Cobra), which coordinates the governmental response to national or regional emergencies.7

One day later, the government inexplicably announced a move from the containment phase in its strategy to the delay phase.8 Chris Whitty, England’s chief medical officer, explained it was no longer necessary to identify every new case and that all testing capacity across the UK, despite major regional variation in cases, would be “pivoted” to hospital patients. NHS 111 and Public Health England teams working on contact tracing were confused and overwhelmed. WHO’s standard containment approach of find, test, treat, and isolate, which has worked well in countries that have successfully suppressed viral spread, was abandoned; entry via ports and airports remained unrestricted.9 There was no future plan for community based case finding, testing, and contact tracing. Procurement and delivery of testing resources was ineffective, despite a readymade viral test and offers of help from university and private sector laboratories.10

On 19 March, the status of covid-19 was downgraded from level 4, the highest threat level, to level 3 by the four nations group on high consequence infectious diseases and the Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens.11 This enabled the required standard of personal protective equipment to be lowered for staff in hospitals and to nurse patients in non-infectious disease settings. Meanwhile, a reckless policy of discharging older patients from hospitals to care homes without testing allowed the virus to spread and kick start a second epidemic of community infection.12

Matters worsened when Vallance initially rejected “eye catching measures” such as stopping mass gatherings or closing schools. To widespread criticism, he floated an approach to “build up some degree of herd immunity” founded on an erroneous view that the vast majority of cases would be mild, like influenza.13 When subsequent modelling estimated that 250 000 people might die in this scenario, but that physical distancing measures could limit deaths to about 20 000, a sharp reversal of policy followed.14 By the time the UK formally announced a lockdown with a huge package of economic support measures, almost two months of potential preparation and prevention time had been squandered.15 The delay in the face of emerging evidence that the Italian lockdown reduced viral transmission by about half16 looks likely to have cost many lives.

If the government failed in its duty to protect the public, it also failed to protect staff in the NHS and social care by not delivering sufficient amounts of personal protective equipment (PPE) of the right specification, again deviating from WHO advice.17 By late April, only 12% of hospital doctors felt fully protected from the virus at work, as staff deaths in health and social care began to rise.18 The broken promises on testing were matched by those on PPE."

etc etc

 

 

When you read that as one statement it frightening to think of the thousands of unnecessary deaths that happened due to government and their advisers not doing the right thing at the right time. 

[MikeO]

20 minutes ago, Palfy said:

When you read that as one statement it frightening to think of the thousands of unnecessary deaths that happened due to government and their advisers not doing the right thing at the right time. 

More than 70,000 dead, in excess of one person for every thousand of the population, so odds of 1,000 to 1. When you consider millions of people do the lottery every week and think they have a chance of winning at odds of 45,057,474 to 1 brings a bit of perspective.

[pete0]

Remember getting laughed at on here for saying we're one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Not only do we plunder our own, we're responsible for enabling over a third of global tax losses.

The State of Tax Justice 2020 finds that the UK spider’s web is responsible for 37.4 per cent of all tax losses suffered by countries around the world, costing countries over $160 billion in lost tax every year.

https://www.taxjustice.net/2020/11/20/427bn-lost-to-tax-havens-every-year-landmark-study-reveals-countries-losses-and-worst-offenders/?fbclid=IwAR3qxsOR-v78NpOjucRK9XSRVkqZ8hvTitDQIuTcoOwkk0jSbbRbKtx176c

 

[pete0]

 

[pete0]