Sean Dyche

[Btay]

I said early I wouldn’t judge Dyche on the games we didn’t have a striker but since we signed Beto (DCL became available a few games later) we have played 12 - W7 D2 L3.

Improvement  

[Gwlad]

The old Everton would have had heads down after their equaliser and given up, this one battled. 

[Cornish Steve]

On 06/11/2023 at 19:46, Btay said:

I don't think many expected Eddie Howe to do such a good job with Newcastle but he has.

You mean the guy whose team just lost to Bournemouth?

[Matt]

4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

You mean the guy whose team just lost to Bournemouth?

Amazing what can happen when you're missing key players...

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Amazing what can happen when you're missing key players...

Fuck them.  We’ve played without strikers, sold kee players and not replaced them.   Can’t stand the pricks . 

[RuffRob]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Amazing what can happen when you're missing key players...

yes, I was think this very much, up until the past couple of weeks Newcastle have had the rub of the green for best part of 18 months and seem to be riding a crest of the wave on all that good fortune across all aspect of that club.

Everton seem to have had the polar opposite. 

 

[MC11]

He’s doing brilliantly in my eyes. We are now starting to look like an Everton team. Full of hard working willing to fight for the cause. 
 

Right now we couldn’t be in better hands.

[Shukes]

Holy shit the tides really are changing.

MC is back!!  

[Matt]

6 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Fuck them.  We’ve played without strikers, sold kee players and not replaced them.   Can’t stand the pricks . 

You've completely missed my point. 

[Hafnia]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

You've completely missed my point. 

I honestly didn’t. I just didn’t respond in the way you wanted. 

[Matt]

1 minute ago, Hafnia said:

I honestly didn’t. I just didn’t respond in the way you wanted. 

So you responded with something completely different just to avoid discussing a parallel? That's impressive 

 

[Hafnia]

49 minutes ago, Matt said:

So you responded with something completely different just to avoid discussing a parallel? That's impressive 

 

Sometimes key players are missing because they weren’t viewed as key despite subsequently proving their worth….. 

[Btay]

9 hours ago, MC11 said:

He’s doing brilliantly in my eyes. We are now starting to look like an Everton team. Full of hard working willing to fight for the cause. 
 

Right now we couldn’t be in better hands.

Exactly, at this rate we could have our premier league status confirms with plenty of games to go. At that stage I would like to see Dyche adapt a more progressive style but for now it’s a needs must situation.

Feel like we are looking up the table rather than below it, which is refreshing in itself.

[Matt]

7 hours ago, Btay said:

Exactly, at this rate we could have our premier league status confirms with plenty of games to go. At that stage I would like to see Dyche adapt a more progressive style but for now it’s a needs must situation.

Feel like we are looking up the table rather than below it, which is refreshing in itself.

Mostly agree but I don't want to see any change yet. Let's get a good gap before we start tinkering with a successful formula. 

[StevO]

Fuck changing the style. I like it, it’s rough and horrible and fast and direct. No one will enjoy playing against us. Siege mentality on the pitch and in the stands will do me nicely. 
 

I’ve never understood chasing a nice style of play. The only thing to go chasing is wins, and we’re getting them. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Fuck changing the style. I like it, it’s rough and horrible and fast and direct. No one will enjoy playing against us. Siege mentality on the pitch and in the stands will do me nicely. 
 

I’ve never understood chasing a nice style of play. The only thing to go chasing is wins, and we’re getting them. 

It's not like it hasn't shown it can lead to a lot of chances - if we'd put our chances away in those first few games you're looking at comfortable wins against Fulham and Wolves.

Creating chances and winning is progressive football.

[Palfy]

I’m all for getting your defence set up and solid it’s so important that you have a sound foundation to build on, it’s still early days but once he’s comfortable that his defence has completely gelled he needs to start making changes to improve the rest of our play by keeping control of the ball better. To have your defence under pressure for 70-80% of a game every week and expect them to stand up to that week in week out is unrealistic and a dangerous game imo, a couple of bad results or injuries and the confidence in the defence can soon be undone and then we are back to square one a team that can’t keep possession and a creaky defence. We need to soon look at how to keep better possession of the ball and still being forward thinking in our possession and give the defence some breathing room. Ultimately we need progress in our game to improve I for one would not be happy to see the way we are playing being long term it’s too fragile to play in that way long term, but I’m happy that short term it’s giving us an opportunity to get some consistency and hopefully then allow us to build in other areas we are still a work in progress.  

[Btay]

8 hours ago, Matt said:

Mostly agree but I don't want to see any change yet. Let's get a good gap before we start tinkering with a successful formula. 

I said to go a bit more progressive when we have our league status confirmed…

[FairWooney]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

I’m all for getting your defence set up and solid it’s so important that you have a sound foundation to build on, it’s still early days but once he’s comfortable that his defence has completely gelled he needs to start making changes to improve the rest of our play by keeping control of the ball better. To have your defence under pressure for 70-80% of a game every week and expect them to stand up to that week in week out is unrealistic and a dangerous game imo, a couple of bad results or injuries and the confidence in the defence can soon be undone and then we are back to square one a team that can’t keep possession and a creaky defence. We need to soon look at how to keep better possession of the ball and still being forward thinking in our possession and give the defence some breathing room. Ultimately we need progress in our game to improve I for one would not be happy to see the way we are playing being long term it’s too fragile to play in that way long term, but I’m happy that short term it’s giving us an opportunity to get some consistency and hopefully then allow us to build in other areas we are still a work in progress.  

I agree with this.

It's great that we have been able to get leads early on through good fast play and pressing and that we are fairly good at protecting the lead however we resort to sitting too deep and inviting too much pressure for long periods.  Keeping a tight defence and being fairly protective of a lead if one thing but our problem as you've said there is that when we do get the ball we give it away too easily.

I don't mind us having less than 50% possession ever, but when you win the ball back you need to make good use of it, whether to keep it for a bit and give your defence a breather or  to do as he often talks about and looks for quick forward progress.  We are trying to do this a lot of the time but it's not smart enough at times so they need to work on ensuring there is a good outball and players quickly supporting a quick break if that's what they want.

This is the one thing that will frustrate fans at home that produces the groans around the ground, it's not lack of possession but poor use of it when you get it.  Brighton was a prime example where we defended resolutely but  threw the ball straight back to them whenever we got it.  Their goal had a bit of luck but no matter who you have defending a goal becomes more inevitable the more time you spend defending around your own box without ever getting away.

[RuffRob]

I think it will come - as confidence and familiarity with each others game developed so will understanding and slickness - don't forget we are only 10 or so games in from the end of the transfer window. This team is fairly new really. 

To me what we are missing is maybe that composure and quality on the ball when we are in possession. Like others have said, rather than hoofing the ball up the pitch when we win the ball in our defensive third, we begin to play out under a little bit more composure and control. 

Dyche is going about it the rigth way - get the defensive part solid and then slowly add the bells and whistles once the basics and general shape become second nature. 

To me this is solid progression built on a proper foundation and I am sure our ability in posession will grow in the second part of the season and beyond. 

We are starting to look like a much more balanced squad. I would like to see Dyche and Thelwell worth together to bring more quality young back up over the next three or four windows. Generally, you have to give 17-18s year olds a good 2-3 years to mature in to players. 

I think Dyche is somebody who can work very well with a DoF and not be demanding player he wants for instant betterment. I think he is a man and manager who is not all personnal ego, and will work towards a longer term club stratergy. This is vital given where we are as a club  and where we want to be that we have to grow organically this time around.

 

 

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Btay said:

I said to go a bit more progressive when we have our league status confirmed…

So you did. This is what happens when I wake up at 4am and can't sleep

[Shukes]

23 hours ago, StevO said:

Fuck changing the style. I like it, it’s rough and horrible and fast and direct. No one will enjoy playing against us. Siege mentality on the pitch and in the stands will do me nicely. 
 

I’ve never understood chasing a nice style of play. The only thing to go chasing is wins, and we’re getting them. 

Same here. I love exciting fast action. Crosses coming in, long balls being chased down, pressure in the box. 
 

Funnily enough the fans that screamed for Garner to play centrally, which has coincided with less chances… but more goals, are now blaming the manager for poor tactics and boring football.

It was the same with Iwobi. He looked very poor out wide but we picked up more points. Then we moved him central  and he looked our best player…. But we nearly got relegated. 
 

I would rather we looked messy and disjointed, but scored a few goals and picked up points, then playing tidy football but not scoring. Keep it messy boss.

[Hafnia]

5 hours ago, Shukes said:

Same here. I love exciting fast action. Crosses coming in, long balls being chased down, pressure in the box. 
 

Funnily enough the fans that screamed for Garner to play centrally, which has coincided with less chances… but more goals, are now blaming the manager for poor tactics and boring football.

It was the same with Iwobi. He looked very poor out wide but we picked up more points. Then we moved him central  and he looked our best player…. But we nearly got relegated. 
 

I would rather we looked messy and disjointed, but scored a few goals and picked up points, then playing tidy football but not scoring. Keep it messy boss.

 

have you considered the “xg” was high when garner wasn’t  in the middle because we were playing teams that are lesser quality than the ones we’ve actually been getting results against? 
 

the issue you are totally missing is that when we are winning our team changes tactics.  We sit back, I’m not talking about possession in isolation - you can let a team have possession and stay in control the game because you dictate where you are happy for them to have the ball. 
 

that did not happen against Brighton or palace. Only when palace equalised did we do the press and intensity. 

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, Shukes said:

Same here. I love exciting fast action. Crosses coming in, long balls being chased down, pressure in the box. 
 

Funnily enough the fans that screamed for Garner to play centrally, which has coincided with less chances… but more goals, are now blaming the manager for poor tactics and boring football.

It was the same with Iwobi. He looked very poor out wide but we picked up more points. Then we moved him central  and he looked our best player…. But we nearly got relegated. 
 

I would rather we looked messy and disjointed, but scored a few goals and picked up points, then playing tidy football but not scoring. Keep it messy boss.

So keeping control of the ball isn’t as important as chasing long balls down. I never thought I would see the day when we constantly only had between 20-30% of the ball even when at home, and I definitely never thought I would ever hear Evertonian’s saying they were happy with that situation. But there you go you live and learn. 

[Matt]

Just now, Palfy said:

So keeping control of the ball isn’t as important as chasing long balls down. I never thought I would see the day when we constantly only had between 20-30% of the ball even when at home, and I definitely never thought I would ever hear Evertonian’s saying they were happy with that situation. But there you go you live and learn. 

I'm enjoying winning again, not having to worry if we'll shoot let alone score. If that means 20-30% possession, so fucking what? Weve had years of dross were we survived on faith of the fans. Years before that we were bored senseless with Silva and Martinez because being Barcelona of that era is apparently the only "good" way to play football (it's boring as shit).

Flip side is we could have 70-80% and be really annoyed that we can't break through and have no plan B... 

Personally, I'm just going to enjoy being infuriatingly smug and rewatch highlights of goals, plural, that we've scored. 

[Hafnia]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

So keeping control of the ball isn’t as important as chasing long balls down. I never thought I would see the day when we constantly only had between 20-30% of the ball even when at home, and I definitely never thought I would ever hear Evertonian’s saying they were happy with that situation. But there you go you live and learn. 

I just find it odd that if people are happy with results then there can’t be any criticism of how they are achieved.  It’s all about balance.

for all my criticism of dyche which I believe is justified - he does some things very well:-

players are fitter

they buy in to his methods 

he takes no shit and fooks players off who aren’t on board

he will get us to mid table

he does have some infuriating traits and I believe it will stop him from progressing us to top half or indeed stop him getting top 8 club job. 

but I’m more than happy and will class this season a success if we finish around 14th or higher. But it doesn’t mean it can be a rinse and repeat which is where we may realise he may need to step aside.  But the things he has done well need to be the bare minimum for any manager - if they can’t be replicated then we don’t hire. 

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

I'm enjoying winning again, not having to worry if we'll shoot let alone score. If that means 20-30% possession, so fucking what? Weve had years of dross were we survived on faith of the fans. Years before that we were bored senseless with Silva and Martinez because being Barcelona of that era is apparently the only "good" way to play football (it's boring as shit).

Flip side is we could have 70-80% and be really annoyed that we can't break through and have no plan B... 

Personally, I'm just going to enjoy being infuriatingly smug and rewatch highlights of goals, plural, that we've scored. 

Could you tell me a team in the top flight that have been successful by having no more than 20-30% of the games they played, and what honour’s if any they won playing that way because I can’t think of one usually the opposite happens and they remain in the bottom half of the table. We all enjoy winning but if you want to be successful you have to at some point stop giving the ball away cheaply. 

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Could you tell me a team in the top flight that have been successful by having no more than 20-30% of the games they played, and what honour’s if any they won playing that way because I can’t think of one usually the opposite happens and they remain in the bottom half of the table. We all enjoy winning but if you want to be successful you have to at some point stop giving the ball away cheaply. 

Couldn't care less about other teams. We also had 68% vs Luton and lost. Which do you prefer?

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

Couldn't care less about other teams. We also had 68% vs Luton and lost. Which do you prefer?

Teams lose Matt, City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea, and Arsenal all the big boys who have won the PL numerous times and won in Europe, whether you’re interested on learning from other teams or not they haven’t achieved their success on 20-30% possession of games on regular basis. To be successful no matter who you are involves not giving the ball away cheaply and we are guilty of that and even Dyche knows and understands that’s a problem and wants to change it, you can’t keep relying on your defence to keep in you in the game constantly under pressure for 70-80% of the game time, you need your midfield wide-men and strikers to keep possession in a positive way which is forward playing and not tippy tapping around at the back, which is what Dyche wants but like he said forward doesn’t mean long balls that we can’t keep control of, didn’t he even tell the players that Dele understands what he wants and requires, and it’s not long balls being chased up the field no matter how exciting that may seem to be. 

[Palfy]

44 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I just find it odd that if people are happy with results then there can’t be any criticism of how they are achieved.  It’s all about balance.

for all my criticism of dyche which I believe is justified - he does some things very well:-

players are fitter

they buy in to his methods 

he takes no shit and fooks players off who aren’t on board

he will get us to mid table

he does have some infuriating traits and I believe it will stop him from progressing us to top half or indeed stop him getting top 8 club job. 

but I’m more than happy and will class this season a success if we finish around 14th or higher. But it doesn’t mean it can be a rinse and repeat which is where we may realise he may need to step aside.  But the things he has done well need to be the bare minimum for any manager - if they can’t be replicated then we don’t hire. 

They seem happy that they’ve won a few games which I am as well, they now don’t think there’s room for improvement and that we are the finished article, where as I don’t think we are any where near the finished article and there is lots of room for improvement. If they take critique as criticism then that’s their choice, as I said in a previous post Dyche has built himself a good foundation in his defence now he needs to build on that and move the team forward, and not sit on his Laurels and think he’s cracked it.