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1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Playing in front of 50K fans every week. Fighting to win a league championship. 

50K fans one week beating some canon fodder (though they're making hard work of it this season) and then often less than 10K the next away game. They don't need to "fight" to win a title, they just need to turn up.

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He did well enough, first go round, in the championship, he's better than rangers/spl.  Time to really challenge him. 

Lower prem and Huddersfield I reckon, let him fight off relegation.  They're down their creative mid, in Mooy until at least the end of Jan, and short in that area regardless.  Wagner likes possession based football as well.

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41 minutes ago, StevO said:

I think the pressure in the SPL would be interesting for him. Personally I don’t think he’ll make it here, but that could be the making of him. Being expected to win every week, even with the best players, isn’t an easy situation to be in. 

Someone gets where I was coming from. 

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8 hours ago, StevO said:

I think the pressure in the SPL would be interesting for him. Personally I don’t think he’ll make it here, but that could be the making of him. Being expected to win every week, even with the best players, isn’t an easy situation to be in. 

Not exactly good preparation for potentially playing for Everton though.

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As much as I can't bare the man he could do much worse than learn from arguably one of the best midfielders the Prem has had over the last decade 

Not a great league but this season is probably the most competitive it's ever been 

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3 hours ago, DavisJD said:

Terrible move for a loan to the SPL.

If it’s not a loan to a PL side, I’d like to see him loaned in Spain where he could hone his technical ability or Germany which is proving a great place for developing young talent at the moment.

Technical ability has never been the issue with Dowell. He has bags of it!!

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22 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Someone gets where I was coming from. 

Sometimes feels to me like people expect every prospect to make it. Just won’t happen. If it did Jose Baxter and JP Kissock would be our front two right now. 

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

Sometimes feels to me like people expect every prospect to make it. Just won’t happen. If it did Jose Baxter and JP Kissock would be our front two right now. 

I completely agree.  On the same wavelength we as a club will get more from a championship side than an SPL side.  Gerard’s squad is half Liverpool loans and the like. Mike Ashley need I say more?

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9 hours ago, StevO said:

Nothing will prepare him in my opinion. Needs to prepare for a transfer to have the best football career he possibly can. 

Still a reason to target a better loan, put him in a bigger shop window and hopefully improve the return.

Still think he's got enough ability, just needs to apply it.  Lower Prem or Germany for mine.

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13 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

I completely agree.  On the same wavelength we as a club will get more from a championship side than an SPL side.  Gerard’s squad is half Liverpool loans and the like. Mike Ashley need I say more?

Oh no, my point is just let the kid go 😂

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6 hours ago, DownUnderToff said:

Still a reason to target a better loan, put him in a bigger shop window and hopefully improve the return.

Still think he's got enough ability, just needs to apply it.  Lower Prem or Germany for mine.

I’m never bothered by the price we get for a kid who hasn’t made it. Do what you can to help the kid get a good career, it’s more important than making a profit on them to me. Historically we have done what’s best for these young lads, and usually involves sell on clauses and minimal up front costs. Much more integrity in helping them than making a profit when the club is owned by a billionaire. 

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6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

haha rate him that highly eh ste?  i think we can get 2m or something from a championship side for him.

Haha extremely mate 😂

We probably could, just hope he goes to wherever is best for him. 

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6 hours ago, StevO said:

I’m never bothered by the price we get for a kid who hasn’t made it. Do what you can to help the kid get a good career, it’s more important than making a profit on them to me. Historically we have done what’s best for these young lads, and usually involves sell on clauses and minimal up front costs. Much more integrity in helping them than making a profit when the club is owned by a billionaire. 

Fair enough.  Might only be 5 - 10m (maybe more in these crazy markets), but every bit is important in the long run.  Our Billionaire owner is not just going to keep pumping in 5-10% of his net worth year on year.

See SPL as more of a career killer.  Doesn't seem like many come out and kick on, Van Dijk recently... anyone else?

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44 minutes ago, DownUnderToff said:

Fair enough.  Might only be 5 - 10m (maybe more in these crazy markets), but every bit is important in the long run.  Our Billionaire owner is not just going to keep pumping in 5-10% of his net worth year on year.

See SPL as more of a career killer.  Doesn't seem like many come out and kick on, Van Dijk recently... anyone else?

That’s my point though, clubs who he would play every week for can’t afford to pay £5-10m for a player who has no experience. If we let him go for nothing but a load of clauses and bonuses it gives the lad a better chance to have a good career. I’d rather we did that and looked after these young lads. 

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

That’s my point though, clubs who he would play every week for can’t afford to pay £5-10m for a player who has no experience. If we let him go for nothing but a load of clauses and bonuses it gives the lad a better chance to have a good career. I’d rather we did that and looked after these young lads. 

If that’s truly how it works and a sale to rangers with a sell on clause and he does well and goes to say Leeds for decent money, then I’m with you Ste.  Admittedly I don’t know the finance/contract side of the game that well and this concept in theory does sound pretty good.

 

One other factor is how Brands handles things as I’m sure he will play a part in the goings and might have methods he prefers.

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2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Championship level for me.

Hope he does well and we can bring in a decent amount for him.

His upside is too big to sell too soon.  With a left foot like that it's conceivable he could make the breakthrough and play at top 6 standard. 

He will improve... whether it will be to our desired levels I don't know but I think he is deffo prem level. Gerrard wanted him at rangers... he's too good for that level. 

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22 hours ago, hafnia said:

His upside is too big to sell too soon.  With a left foot like that it's conceivable he could make the breakthrough and play at top 6 standard. 

He will improve... whether it will be to our desired levels I don't know but I think he is deffo prem level. Gerrard wanted him at rangers... he's too good for that level. 

He looks like he has a decent shot on him, I'm seeing nothing of this upside you're talking about tbh.

Weak, slow... I see those things though.

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57 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He looks like he has a decent shot on him, I'm seeing nothing of this upside you're talking about tbh.

Weak, slow... I see those things though.

He's got decent feet, skill and yeah a crackin shot and vision.

He could be athletically lacking but he's got a year or 2 till we know for sure. 

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I watched a bit of the Norwich v Sheffield Utd game earlier and Dowell started. He played OK but just didn't really put his stamp on the performance before being subbed off.

I'm not sure he has started many games so hopefully he gets more playing time.

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8 hours ago, pete0 said:

I recall rave reviews by the Forest fans too, then they started complaining about his invisibility in games. 

He needs to show consistency over a season. 

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27 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I recall rave reviews by the Forest fans too, then they started complaining about his invisibility in games. 

He needs to show consistency over a season. 

He reminds me a lot of Sigurdssen in that sense (and more fortunately in his technical ability too). Hopefully he'll have a bit more to him after getting a few more kicks in the Championship and impose himself on the pitch for us. 

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1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I recall rave reviews by the Forest fans too, then they started complaining about his invisibility in games. 

He needs to show consistency over a season. 

True, but he is very young and Forrest was his first run in a competitive team.

Loans like this will help his consistency. 

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Dowell plays in a position where, although pace helps, vision, positioning and decision making are just as important. I wouldn't necessarily write him off because it’s a tough position to learn (number 10) and actually getting his chance when he is ‘wiser’ may actually be of benefit to him and us. The best case scenario would be that he plays a significant part in getting Sheff Utd up then gets another year with them playing consistently in the Premier League. Didn’t Osman break into our first team as a 23/24 year old? If Dowell’s good  enough, I’m sure Brands will have a plan for him.

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2 hours ago, c1982 said:

Dowell plays in a position where, although pace helps, vision, positioning and decision making are just as important. I wouldn't necessarily write him off because it’s a tough position to learn (number 10) and actually getting his chance when he is ‘wiser’ may actually be of benefit to him and us. The best case scenario would be that he plays a significant part in getting Sheff Utd up then gets another year with them playing consistently in the Premier League. Didn’t Osman break into our first team as a 23/24 year old? If Dowell’s good  enough, I’m sure Brands will have a plan for him.

Very true that Osman did. But he wasn’t competing with what appears to be an open chequebook. 

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1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah i was being a smart ass, honestly i'm just glad he's playing at this point.

Indeed.  The whole point of a loan is playing time to me. Learning to fight for your place is good but they can do that here.  Game time is a must for a loan.

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