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4 hours ago, Makis said:

How many 20-year old CMs are there in the Premier League that are much better than Davies? How many have there been in the last five years?

Not sure why people throw age around with footballers he's 20 not 16 also there have been loads of players over the years.... but it all comes down to your personal opinion of how good you think he is, very subjective 

Personally ability wise I don't see much difference in him to the likes of Gosling and Rodwell 

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Experience is very important for players, especially so for central midfielders. That's why. Also, players at that age are usually not at peak fitness yet. So a 20-year old player can be expected to improve. He's not the finished product yet.

Rodwell was talented but his attitude has stank ever since. He could have been a regular England player, instead he was happy to pick a fat wage packet from Sunderland and not play. Davies by all accounts is absolutely opposite. Extremely eager to learn, trains hard, loves to play. And he seems to have that knack of making others around him better.

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16 minutes ago, Makis said:

Experience is very important for players, especially so for central midfielders. That's why. Also, players at that age are usually not at peak fitness yet. So a 20-year old player can be expected to improve. He's not the finished product yet.

Rodwell was talented but his attitude has stank ever since. He could have been a regular England player, instead he was happy to pick a fat wage packet from Sunderland and not play. Davies by all accounts is absolutely opposite. Extremely eager to learn, trains hard, loves to play. And he seems to have that knack of making others around him better.

That sounds like Rodwell before he was sold without wanting to go with the British media bigging him up as the next big thing. He wasn’t ready for that move and it destroyed him  

Anyway, I completely agree with you about Davies.

I wonder how good Barry was at 20 and I don’t mean based on news reports and subsequent career. I mean who watched him week in week out. 

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3 hours ago, Matt said:

I wonder how good Barry was at 20 and I don’t mean based on news reports and subsequent career. I mean who watched him week in week out. 

He was a centre back in those days so difficult to compare.

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17 hours ago, Makis said:

Experience is very important for players, especially so for central midfielders. That's why. Also, players at that age are usually not at peak fitness yet. So a 20-year old player can be expected to improve. He's not the finished product yet.

Rodwell was talented but his attitude has stank ever since. He could have been a regular England player, instead he was happy to pick a fat wage packet from Sunderland and not play. Davies by all accounts is absolutely opposite. Extremely eager to learn, trains hard, loves to play. And he seems to have that knack of making others around him better.

I've said previously experience will help any player that's a given but you can only get so far on hard work and experience you need the natural ability to hone and I just don't see it in him 

He's not shite don't get me wrong he could be a squad player for years to come but I can't ever see him being able to cut it at the level we should be aiming for as a first team player

Can't blame Rodwell for wanting his money when he asked to leave also had problems with injuries, Sunderland are and where a shambles who gladly threw the money at him and others to begin with, a club that got what they deserved imo

Anyway it's going off topic but I hope he proves me wrong down the line as I'll gladly eat humble pie when any player wearing the shirt does so 

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On 30/01/2019 at 19:41, pete0 said:

If that was true we'd be a top 7 side and Villa probably wouldn't have got relegated. He's not even a DM, Gomes, Schneiderlin, and Barry all sat more. If anything he's in the role of the CM and possibly the worst one in the league at that. 

You come up with some belting comments Pete but you just sound fucking stupid now. All the facts and expert opinion fly in the face of the drivel you are spouting yet you still come out with bollocks like this

There are plenty of people who don’t rate Gana, such as Palfy, but none come out with this kind of rubbish

Everyone is in agreement that he is limited when on the ball but you can’t even acknowledge that he is great at winning possession , be it by intercepting or tackling. How the flying fuck can he have the stats he does and play in the role he does and not be considered a DM?

 

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I hope Tom isn’t dropped to the bench on Saturday for Gana to return not because of any views of Gana positive or negative, but because of how he played against Huddersfield, and also because of Gana’s desire to leave. 

It would surely be a massive kick in the teeth for the lad which he doesn’t deserve after his performance, and even more so be dropped for someone who wanted out that would be hard to take on the chin. 

And if Silva doesn’t play this right he could cause a split in the dressing room with players feeling Davies has been quite frankly shit on, and the manager has bottled a tough decision in favour of the senior man. 

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I hope Tom isn’t dropped to the bench on Saturday for Gana to return not because of any views of Gana positive or negative, but because of how he played against Huddersfield, and also because of Gana’s desire to leave. 

It would surely be a massive kick in the teeth for the lad which he doesn’t deserve after his performance, and even more so be dropped for someone who wanted out that would be hard to take on the chin. 

And if Silva doesn’t play this right he could cause a split in the dressing room with players feeling Davies has been quite frankly shit on, and the manager has bottled a tough decision in favour of the senior man. 

 

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

would have never thought you would say that palfy, completely out of the blue for you

I don’t necessarily disagree in this case. Gana probably needs a game or two out to sort his head and Davies deserves another start.

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Just now, MikeO said:

"Rest" Gomes and try Gana and Davies together?

Gomes has been a passenger for a while now.

Thought of that option, too. Gomes was pretty useless in the Huddersfield match minus the first 10 minutes or so of the second half. Still think the weekend might be too soon for Gana, but I’m in agreement with you that I don’t think the saga will affect his mentality much for the rest of the season past a week or two.

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                          Gana

          Davies                    Bernard

Lookman                             Richarlison

                         Tosun

 

Bernard floating through the middle behind Tosun and Davies sitting deeper, did well enough last time to warrant another start plus Gomes and Sigurdsson haven't been upto scratch lately so a rest may be needed 

                 

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44 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said:

                          Gana

          Davies                    Bernard

Lookman                             Richarlison

                         Tosun

 

Bernard floating through the middle behind Tosun and Davies sitting deeper, did well enough last time to warrant another start plus Gomes and Sigurdsson haven't been upto scratch lately so a rest may be needed 

                 

I do like the Bernard idea as a replacement for Gylfi I really think he could cause teams a lot of problems in that area. 

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

"Rest" Gomes and try Gana and Davies together?

Gomes has been a passenger for a while now.

Worth looking at we need to try to find something that works on paper our midfield should be good but in reality it’s not working, so keep trying different combinations till something clicks. 

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3 hours ago, MikeO said:

"Rest" Gomes and try Gana and Davies together?

Gomes has been a passenger for a while now.

No no no, please. Nothing good will come out of that. Ganas energitic moves, forward and backwards and to the sides has never been any good to his dm/m partner in our club. If anything, let Gana play that position alone.

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10 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

You come up with some belting comments Pete but you just sound fucking stupid now. All the facts and expert opinion fly in the face of the drivel you are spouting yet you still come out with bollocks like this

There are plenty of people who don’t rate Gana, such as Palfy, but none come out with this kind of rubbish

Everyone is in agreement that he is limited when on the ball but you can’t even acknowledge that he is great at winning possession , be it by intercepting or tackling. How the flying fuck can he have the stats he does and play in the role he does and not be considered a DM?

 

Name a couple of teams that play two DMs because as far as I'm aware now do. The others all play further back than Gana so are they not the DM? 

4 hours ago, MikeO said:

"Rest" Gomes and try Gana and Davies together?

Gomes has been a passenger for a while now.

Please god no. Gana makes £40m players struggle nevermind a kid learning the trade. 

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Really hope Davies puts in another good, tidy performance. Started thinking he was a bit boring as some mentioned here, average at most things and not spectacular at anything. To his credit he showed some good range of passing and was pushing forward at the right times offering support and runs into the box. Good defensive stats as well.

 

Regardless hes coming up against 2 midfielders who I see him as a similar player in the likes of Neves and Moutinho and I hope Davies and Gomes win the midfield.

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On 01/02/2019 at 15:15, MikeO said:

"Rest" Gomes and try Gana and Davies together?

Gomes has been a passenger for a while now.

Told you he should be dropped:unsure:.

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I don't think he did to badly tbh a fair few wayward passes but he wasn't any worse than the majority out there today 

The one thing he doesn't suit is being in that midfield with Gomes he's needs to either sit deeper or be paired with Bernard with Gana behind them to see how he fairs

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Thought he played ok, in a team devoid of confidence. He tried to get us going forward and made some good probing passes.

Not the finished article, but did ok in the circumstances.

I am beginning to think Siggy is the weak link in terms of his speed of passing and play.

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5 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Thought he played ok, in a team devoid of confidence. He tried to get us going forward and made some good probing passes.

Not the finished article, but did ok in the circumstances.

I am beginning to think Siggy is the weak link in terms of his speed of passing and play.

He’s also the only one capable of playing a good through ball, though. Not a single other passer we have consistently threads the ball through defenders.

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29 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

He’s also the only one capable of playing a good through ball, though. Not a single other passer we have consistently threads the ball through defenders.

That's why its such a conundrum. Play in a shape that more suits the other players and what has been his most preferred shape or drop his most creative player.

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2 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

He’s also the only one capable of playing a good through ball, though. Not a single other passer we have consistently threads the ball through defenders.

Lookman, Richarlison, Bernard can all create chances and play killer balls.

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9 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

He’s also the only one capable of playing a good through ball, though. Not a single other passer we have consistently threads the ball through defenders.

Siggy too

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3 hours ago, Btay said:

I don’t think Richarlison creates a lot personally.

Oh he does. He creates a lot of fucking frustration.

Davies was ok yesterday. He's not good enough to be playing central midfield in the PL right now (and never will be imo) but he is far from a problem of yesterday. The much bigger problems from that game are the tit on the left and Sigurdsson who plays god knows where and offers nothing. Zero. Nada. Fuck all. I want the pair of them dropped. Richarlison because he's a moaning, lazy piece of crap that doesn't have a clue how to beat his man. And Sigurdsson because he doesn't get involved really and his set pieces are an absolute waste of time. So what is he there for? We won't miss him,

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Mark said ....

Sigurdsson who plays god knows where and offers nothing. Zero. Nada. Fuck all. I want the pair of them dropped. Richarlison because he's a moaning, lazy piece of crap that doesn't have a clue how to beat his man. And Sigurdsson because he doesn't get involved really and his set pieces are an absolute waste of time. So what is he there for? We won't miss him,

 

Won't miss the 20 goals they've scored between them. ?😀

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

Mark said ....

Sigurdsson who plays god knows where and offers nothing. Zero. Nada. Fuck all. I want the pair of them dropped. Richarlison because he's a moaning, lazy piece of crap that doesn't have a clue how to beat his man. And Sigurdsson because he doesn't get involved really and his set pieces are an absolute waste of time. So what is he there for? We won't miss him,

 

Won't miss the 20 goals they've scored between them. ?😀

Sorry Bill, I’ve missed where they’ve been sparkling for us when we’ve lost, what is it?, 6 out of the last 9 or something like that. 

What I haven’t missed it Sigurdsson hiding from the ball and then when he has it does fuck all of any note with it. I haven’t missed Richarlison walking (yes walking) around the pitch with a sense of entitlement and generally with the air of couldn’t give a shit. That’s the best part of £100m stinking the place out. 

Sigurdsson upsets the whole balance of the team and we’d be better off not building a team around him. We never should have brought him in. Richarlison just needs a kick up the arse from his “dad”.

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I agree with you on how they play mark, but we would be in a lot more trouble without their 20 goals. Playing shit but still scoring goals can be forgiven.  ala Lukaku. 😊

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10 minutes ago, Bill said:

I agree with you on how they play mark, but we would be in a lot more trouble without their 20 goals. Playing shit but still scoring goals can be forgiven.  ala Lukaku. 😊

For all his goals and assists Sigurdssen has only got us 4 points. Hard to justify him starting considering he's anonymous if he doesn't make the score sheet and even when he does it had little affect to the outcome of the game. 

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44 minutes ago, pete0 said:

For all his goals and assists Sigurdssen has only got us 4 points. Hard to justify him starting considering he's anonymous if he doesn't make the score sheet and even when he does it had little affect to the outcome of the game. 

Not this again... if he’s scoring and assisting he’s doing his job, others are not. 

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49 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not this again... if he’s scoring and assisting he’s doing his job, others are not. 

He's barely touching the ball and helping the team otherwise. He's a motd player, we need ones to turn up for the full 90.

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10 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He's barely touching the ball and helping the team otherwise. He's a motd player, we need ones to turn up for the full 90.

He’s the only one doing any closing down up top, the only one capable of splitting the defence with a pass, our best set piece taker...

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2 hours ago, Bill said:

I agree with you on how they play mark, but we would be in a lot more trouble without their 20 goals. Playing shit but still scoring goals can be forgiven.  ala Lukaku. 😊

I’d swap those goals for a more balanced and committed side in an instant. I’d wager that would bring about more points as well. 

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8 minutes ago, Matt said:

He’s the only one doing any closing down up top, the only one capable of splitting the defence with a pass, our best set piece taker...

He's not fast enough, effective enough at closing down. He's a yard behind the play more often than not and easily marked out of the game when we have the ball. 

Prefer Digne on the set pieces. Sigurdssen has largely been disappointing in that department considering it's his main attribute. 

Through ball wise it was quoted that Barry creates more from open play than him. 

Using yesterday's game all I remember is one decent delivery from a set piece and one pass through to Walcott. Two passes in 90 minutes hardly justifies him a starting spot. 

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2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He's not fast enough, effective enough at closing down. He's a yard behind the play more often than not and easily marked out of the game when we have the ball. 

Prefer Digne on the set pieces. Sigurdssen has largely been disappointing in that department considering it's his main attribute. 

Through ball wise it was quoted that Barry creates more from open play than him. 

Using yesterday's game all I remember is one decent delivery from a set piece and one pass through to Walcott. Two passes in 90 minutes hardly justifies him a starting spot. 

I’ll give you Digne, the rest I don’t know where to start with disagreeing 

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11 hours ago, Btay said:

I don’t think Richarlison creates a lot personally.

He is more of a finisher than creator thats for sure. He creates more for himself than others.

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Not this again... if he’s scoring and assisting he’s doing his job, others are not. 

Plus he cant help it if people arent scoring the chances he creates. Siggy is comfortably our most creative player and most influential player but he is being played alongside the striker rather than as a midfielder and he just doesnt get on the ball anywhere near enough.

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17 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Plus he cant help it if people arent scoring the chances he creates. Siggy is comfortably our most creative player and most influential player but he is being played alongside the striker rather than as a midfielder and he just doesnt get on the ball anywhere near enough

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created

Assume this must include set pieces but he's taken as many as Digne this year yet Digne has created significantly more (although I have no idea what they class as a big chance). 

That said I don't feel like we've created much, I don't remember us missing many sitters in general be it Sigurdssen or Digne creating. 

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I agree with Romey and PeteO here. It’s ok creating when your on the ball. But football is a team game, not an individual game, and Siggy is an excellent individual.... I’m just just not sure if he fits into the team.

It would be interesting to see how we would do, without him.

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5 hours ago, pete0 said:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created

Assume this must include set pieces but he's taken as many as Digne this year yet Digne has created significantly more (although I have no idea what they class as a big chance). 

That said I don't feel like we've created much, I don't remember us missing many sitters in general be it Sigurdssen or Digne creating. 

I am amazed that I have to do something like this but just watch this for a couple of minutes and tell me that he isnt a huge part of a lot of the good attacking moves we make.

As I have said, he needs to do more and get on the ball more and I dont like his position as almost a second striker, and I am also not keen on the fact that he only comes short and doesn't run behind but the bottom line is that if you could get Siggy 20 more touches a game we would create more chances. That is why it is a complicated decision for Silva.

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13 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I am amazed that I have to do something like this but just watch this for a couple of minutes and tell me that he isnt a huge part of a lot of the good attacking moves we make.

As I have said, he needs to do more and get on the ball more and I dont like his position as almost a second striker, and I am also not keen on the fact that he only comes short and doesn't run behind but the bottom line is that if you could get Siggy 20 more touches a game we would create more chances. That is why it is a complicated decision for Silva.

That's the problem the tactics don't allow for him to get on the ball that much. He's too slow. On the other hand we don't set up to make the most use it is him as you'd need to set the whole team around him. 

No one is saying he's not capable. Just that he's not involved enough and that we might create more as a team with a player better suited to those around him. 

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13 hours ago, pete0 said:

He's not fast enough, effective enough at closing down.

Closing down requires the whole team to do their job. No-one is quicker than the ball so if no-one else does closing down one player will always look inefficient.

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22 hours ago, pete0 said:

That's the problem the tactics don't allow for him to get on the ball that much. He's too slow. On the other hand we don't set up to make the most use it is him as you'd need to set the whole team around him. 

No one is saying he's not capable. Just that he's not involved enough and that we might create more as a team with a player better suited to those around him. 

I completely agree with that.

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