MikeO Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Never been to ibiza..went to magaluf...remember nowt Travel is supposed to broaden the mind, not delete it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droobie Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Two pre-season games so far... Looks like the break hasn't done young Ross any good at the moment. Still looks a bit lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Two pre-season games so far... Looks like the break hasn't done young Ross any good at the moment. Still looks a bit lost. I've only watched yesterday's game but I agree. The only thing that's been positive is he moves off the ball, which is something a lot of the others still haven't figured out yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Two pre-season games so far... Looks like the break hasn't done young Ross any good at the moment. Still looks a bit lost. Thats a good sign, it shows he hasn't been playing football, there will be rust and the most important thing is his brain has been away from football for 8 weeks. He's been in and around match prepping, training, playing, injury rehab for that past 3-4 years non stop. I expect him to show rust in the same way it was expected Rom showed Rust - get 45-90 minute work outs to get match fit and the sharpness will come. He is going to benefit immensely from Cleverley IMO, TC will affect the speed at which Ross makes his decisions, 1-2 touch, pass move - at a tempo. Not looking to get into a stride at every opportunity or play the pass as a last resort. He will push on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Completely agree Haf. I think Cleverley's style of play will suit Ross and hopefully help him develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Completely agree Haf. I think Cleverley's style of play will suit Ross and hopefully help him develop. I agree, too. It's funny, TC and Ross combined would be a world class player; 2 footed, hard working, quick feet and, most importantly, quick mind. Same could be applied to Rom and Naismith. Imagine if the best attributes from those 2 could be combined in to 1 player. Thats not a possibility, unfortunately. However, Ross and Rom are young enough to develop their prospective careers to massive heights for 1 reason; they're both hungry for success. TC will get the best out of both of them, by creating chances and showing 1 touch football. I'm not trying to make him out to be a saviour here. But the lad is going to be along the lines of Carsley or Naismith or McCarthy - nothing spectacular but makes the team better and goes relatively un-noticed. For all the flair players that make a difference, there are 10 players that support that player to play free. McCarthy does it, TC will do it and in time, Ross will do both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I think you just need to look at cleverelys pass to Rom, class, you can't fluke that, it was a split second moment of quick thinking and perfect technique. If Gerrard did that pass for LA Galaxy it would be viral by now. efc1111 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I think you just need to look at cleverelys pass to Rom, class, you can't fluke that, it was a split second moment of quick thinking and perfect technique. If Gerrard did that pass for LA Galaxy it would be viral by now. It can be fluked. I caught a side heel over the on coming player, took the next player on and setup a winner. I am not for a second pretending its on the same scale, but moments of brilliance happen all the time and never again. In this point though, TC is not moments of brilliance. He will create them, for sure, and we have to hope Ross learns from it. Thats the most important thing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I actually thought Ross looked much better. He was always looking for the ball and when he received it he moved it on very quickly. Yes he still made a few wrong decisions..but again so did all our young uns. Ross has the ability to move the ball very fast, people see goals and marauding runs and think that is Ross Barkley. But one of his best attributes is that quick ball forward or a flick round the corner. That's what you need in today's game.. Speed. I didn't see him against Swindon but thought he did well against Stoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) It can be fluked. I caught a side heel over the on coming player, took the next player on and setup a winner. I am not for a second pretending its on the same scale, but moments of brilliance happen all the time and never again. In this point though, TC is not moments of brilliance. He will create them, for sure, and we have to hope Ross learns from it. Thats the most important thing here. "Vision" can not be fluked - the ability to see the ball was coming to him in that situation, the awareness to see the run and the pass required in a split second was the most impressive thing. Technique was second to the first part, that can be fluked but as said, it was secondary to a moment of outstanding vision. It was similar in many ways to Bracewells over the shoulder pass in 1984-1985 season game against Sunderland, wasn't necessarily the execution it was the awareness and speed of thought. Awareness can not be fluked. Controlling a ball can be a fluke absolutely. Edited July 16, 2015 by Hafnia Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Don't get me wrong, what TC did was brilliant and we are completely in the same mind when it comes to him. He is a natural, but not amazing. I'm not old enough to remember Bracewell, or our glory years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Don't get me wrong, what TC did was brilliant and we are completely in the same mind when it comes to him. He is a natural, but not amazing. I'm not old enough to remember Bracewell, or our glory years I'm not saying he's amazing but I'm saying that if Stevie G hits that pass for LA it would have been all over sky sports. And yep there is no disputing the awareness and speed of thought to nail it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Agreed. And I take pride in the fact we don't have that media hero. Gerrard, as much as I detest him, was a brilliant player. He could've been better, and I know I will get stick for this, but I've got huge respect for him staying at the club he loves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oztoffee Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'm going to get a lot of stick from some for this....but I can take it. There are a lot of blue glasses put on when Ross is mentioned. Honest to god, I really don't think he's that good that he deserves such praise and adulation. Yes, he's young and makes mistakes as many have pointed out on his behalf, but really in all honesty what has he done that is so awe inspiring that he is able to command such respect while achieving so little? Many say 'he's one for the future', but to be able to say that, a prime requisite is that he has to do something occasionally now! But he does not. To me he's the most frustrating player we have - bar none. The game against Stoke was just a continuation of the ineffectual matches he had all last season. It is not enough to have an 'alright' game now and again or a moment of brilliance when it's surrounded by months of dross. The lad gets caught on the ball continually match after match, losing team momentum but more often losing team possession. Don't get me wrong here, I want the lad to succeed but he is not going forward at all and keep making the same mistakes. He won't lay it off until the very last moment and quite frequently (no exaggeration) leaves it too late. He rarely passes the ball forward, mostly back because he has dithered too long on making a choice and the opposition have closed up in front of him. He's either playing way out of his comfort zone in terms of his level of talent, he's being forced into playing that midfield role that his close control can't match in terms of his slow decision making or he's playing for the wrong team, because whatever talent he may or may not possess is most certainly lost where he's playing at the moment. I don't think it's the wrong team, because he generally plays just as badly for England, although with the U21s he does better. If someone came in with a decent offer, I'd bite their hand off at the elbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I disagree. Don't worry about how he performs in a friendly, it just doesn't matter. Last season he struggled with confidence after his injury. If you saw him the season before you will know why he is so highly rated. Even at times last season, I saw him control a ball in the air, as it come down his first touch pulls it through his legs and away from his opponent. But he does it so quick, and quite frequently, that it's as if nothing happened. When really he's pulled off an amazing piece of skill and technique. He just has it. But he needs to get his confidence back, settle in one position, and we will see what he is capable of. Too many people in the game rate him highly, they can't all be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I really do not understand this "get rid if we get a half decent offer mentality" The lad missed 2 years of his development so effectively has the experience of a 19-20 year old, physically and technically he has the world at his feet. I watched the Gazza film the other night and Gazza was very raw like Ross till he "understood" the game. Both players are remarkably similar in the sense that they both have two good feet, great balance, control and the ability to run with the ball with pace and power. The lad has had to suffer the nonsense that Moyes subjected him to, its only when Martinez gave him his first full season that we seen his potential - then that dinosaur Hodgson managed to "bully" him in the press and whilst he was playing. He needs to be protected from the limelight till he is comfortable in the player that he has the talent to be. He certainly isn't gonna get there with Roy "Mascherano is the best player in the world" Hodgson or over expectant fans groaning when he passes it 10 yards. Its a symptom of the model that we have been operating in that some fans want us to sell him. Would Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea or City sell him? Not a chance. But little old Everton should cash in on the chance that he could be another Rodwell.... he ain't, his talent is just too rich for that. It may take work on his mentality but it will get through. Edited July 17, 2015 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'm going to get a lot of stick from some for this....but I can take it. There are a lot of blue glasses put on when Ross is mentioned. Honest to god, I really don't think he's that good that he deserves such praise and adulation. Yes, he's young and makes mistakes as many have pointed out on his behalf, but really in all honesty what has he done that is so awe inspiring that he is able to command such respect while achieving so little? Many say 'he's one for the future', but to be able to say that, a prime requisite is that he has to do something occasionally now! But he does not. To me he's the most frustrating player we have - bar none. The game against Stoke was just a continuation of the ineffectual matches he had all last season. It is not enough to have an 'alright' game now and again or a moment of brilliance when it's surrounded by months of dross. The lad gets caught on the ball continually match after match, losing team momentum but more often losing team possession. Don't get me wrong here, I want the lad to succeed but he is not going forward at all and keep making the same mistakes. He won't lay it off until the very last moment and quite frequently (no exaggeration) leaves it too late. He rarely passes the ball forward, mostly back because he has dithered too long on making a choice and the opposition have closed up in front of him. He's either playing way out of his comfort zone in terms of his level of talent, he's being forced into playing that midfield role that his close control can't match in terms of his slow decision making or he's playing for the wrong team, because whatever talent he may or may not possess is most certainly lost where he's playing at the moment. I don't think it's the wrong team, because he generally plays just as badly for England, although with the U21s he does better. If someone came in with a decent offer, I'd bite their hand off at the elbow. Been saying it since I joined the board If he played for Liverpool he would get laughed at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Been saying it since I joined the board If he played for Liverpool he would get laughed at. Whereas Captain Kick Off - Jordan Henderson does play for Liverpool and does get laughed at. I'll happily stick with our Ross thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oztoffee Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 . Its a symptom of the model that we have been operating in that some fans want us to sell him. Would Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea or City sell him? Not a chance. But little old Everton should cash in on the chance that he could be another Rodwell.... he ain't, his talent is just too rich for that. It may take work on his mentality but it will get through. C'mon mate, this isn't about cashing in.......it's about having a player that's pretty useful most of the time. If you think that Ross is useful most of the time, please let us all know why you think that way -NOW- not next season. He's playing this season, so please tell me how he is useful this season. Haf said earlier that Ross looked lost in the two pre-season games so far and that's a good sign that he hasn't been playing football. WTF Haf? I have the greatest respect for your knowledge, but mate...Really? He's rusty and that's a good sign? He looked lost and really out of his depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Ok where do I start... Its a symptom of the model that we have been operating in that some fans want us to sell him. Would Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea or City sell him? Not a chance. But little old Everton should cash in on the chance that he could be another Rodwell.... he ain't, his talent is just too rich for that. It may take work on his mentality but it will get through. C'mon mate, this isn't about cashing in.......it's about having a player that's pretty useful most of the time. If you think that Ross is useful most of the time, please let us all know why you think that way -NOW- not next season. He's playing this season, so please tell me how he is useful this season. Haf said earlier that Ross looked lost in the two pre-season games so far and that's a good sign that he hasn't been playing football. WTF Haf? I have the greatest respect for your knowledge, but mate...Really? He's rusty and that's a good sign? He looked lost and really out of his depth. He has to be ready now?! Ok well let's sell him for £10m buy David Silva for £50m and then when Ross becomes the player his talent suggests we will buy him back for £60m. No we can't do that can we. Look at Paul Pogba. United never played him, he left, became a very good player and now they couldn't afford him. He was often double marked last season after his breakout season the year before, this is normal. The player has to learn how to combat that. regarding rustiness, it's ok for Rom or Gerry to be rusty but not Ross? I like to see a young player rusty as fuck in July. It shows he has had a proper break, and his mind has been away from football. Once the season kicks off - its intense mentality and physically for the next 9 months. He's had nothing but shit to deal with from the end of his very good season. A world cup with hodgson the prick picking on him and knocking his confidence. Then returning with little to no break and getting injured which negated his pre season. Then at goodison the crowd getting on his back because he didn't do amazing things every time he got the ball. Just enjoy watching him develop that's all I will say. There is no English player like him and like many of the likes of Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher, redknapp, shearer, lineker I believe he is going to be one of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 We didn't have enough threatening players on the pitch at the same time last season. Hopefully they can all stay fit this season and we will see the best of ross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 I like Ross from the kick off. Always positive and has a little dart at the defence. He hasn't looked to bad pre season and I think Gerry is good for him, when they play together he always looks for him and plays some good balls out wiDe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Wasn't great when he came on. His first touch pretty much ran into defenders and gave the ball away. Then he gets five to ten yards to play with on the edge of the box, then two touches and the ball hits the back of the net. Nothing but class and power. Unfortunately with Ross at this stage of his career, we will get him losing the ball, but we also get the ball hitting the top corner, when he has the freedom that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Wasn't great when he came on. His first touch pretty much ran into defenders and gave the ball away. Then he gets five to ten yards to play with on the edge of the box, then two touches and the ball hits the back of the net. Nothing but class and power. Unfortunately with Ross at this stage of his career, we will get him losing the ball, but we also get the ball hitting the top corner, when he has the freedom that is. The trouble is that we need him to be able to produce when he isn't given that space and freedom. The opposition aren't going let him do what he wants, he has to find a way of creating that space himself. It's something we struggle to do as a team, so it's certainly not something that's levelled at Ross alone - our movement off the ball is really quite embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Can't disagree with you there Mark. I hope he learns sooner rather than later. Maybe this number ten might help the movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 The trouble is that we need him to be able to produce when he isn't given that space and freedom. The opposition aren't going let him do what he wants, he has to find a way of creating that space himself. It's something we struggle to do as a team, so it's certainly not something that's levelled at Ross alone - our movement off the ball is really quite embarrassing. We have movement off the ball? when did that happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 In terms of appearances he has made the equivalent of 2 seasons worth of appearances. He needs to be played in one position, continuously, fuck off that England set up and flourish. Yes as I've said above he will struggle till he is mentally there, but talent will get him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 In terms of appearances he has made the equivalent of 2 seasons worth of appearances. He needs to be played in one position, continuously, fuck off that England set up and flourish. Yes as I've said above he will struggle till he is mentally there, but talent will get him there. I hate it when I agree with you :shaking fist: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 We have movement off the ball? when did that happen? We're seeing the most movement off the ball currently; Chelsea being after Stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/ross-barkley-admits-plagued-self-doubt-9687388 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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