John Stones

[Matt]

Didn’t want him to go, would love him back. But no chance he’d come back after some of the shit he had from some “fans”

[Hafnia]

Don't want him near the club tbh.  He's like David Luiz without the freekicks.  

Can't get a stable defence with risk takers/ball watchers.  

For me he seems to have got very settled with what he has. If he was anything like the player he promised to be or people thought he was - he would get snapped up.  But he won't. 

[Hafnia]

23 hours ago, StevO said:

Who said he’s better than Holgate? He’s definitely not. But if Carlo could get him defending properly, those two could be very good. But Stones has a lot to learn. 

If Pep can't get him defending and doing what he wants him to do, I doubt Carlo could.  Not to say pep is better than Carlo,  the fact is, he's been under the management of one of the best in the business, played alongside Kompany and still hasn't learned. 

[Bailey]

On 05/07/2020 at 13:27, StevO said:

Who said he’s better than Holgate? He’s definitely not. But if Carlo could get him defending properly, those two could be very good. But Stones has a lot to learn. 

 

On 05/07/2020 at 15:02, Shukes said:

Ye I don’t think he is better than Holgate, I was just quoting Bailey. Should have quoted him rather than type it out haha. 

Don't get me wrong, Stones would need a bit of refocusing but I am amazed that anyone thinks that Stones isn't a better defender and footballer. 

Holgate makes silly mistakes in a defensive system. You put Stones into that system and get him out of the play out at all times mentality he could easily be one of the best defenders in the league. His 1 v 1 defending for us was still some of the best I have seen, especially at someone that was his age. 

10 hours ago, Hafnia said:

If Pep can't get him defending and doing what he wants him to do, I doubt Carlo could.  Not to say pep is better than Carlo,  the fact is, he's been under the management of one of the best in the business, played alongside Kompany and still hasn't learned. 

This is completely wrong. In Pep's system the centre backs are massively exposed. Stones in that position is playing on his two weaknesses. His will to play all the time and his pace. It was either going to make or break him in that he would learn how to overcome it or he would struggle. In fairness if he could stay fit, it would probably be him and Laporte every week. 

If he plays for Carlo in a system like he did today he would look like a Rolls Royce barely breaking sweat. 

I'd also add that there was a fairly long spell that Kompany was struggling under Pep too but that is forgotten because of how well he ended that last season.

[Hafnia]

8 minutes ago, Bailey said:

 

Don't get me wrong, Stones would need a bit of refocusing but I am amazed that anyone thinks that Stones isn't a better defender and footballer. 

Holgate makes silly mistakes in a defensive system. You put Stones into that system and get him out of the play out at all times mentality he could easily be one of the best defenders in the league. His 1 v 1 defending for us was still some of the best I have seen, especially at someone that was his age. 

This is completely wrong. In Pep's system the centre backs are massively exposed. Stones in that position is playing on his two weaknesses. His will to play all the time and his pace. It was either going to make or break him in that he would learn how to overcome it or he would struggle. In fairness if he could stay fit, it would probably be him and Laporte every week. 

If he plays for Carlo in a system like he did today he would look like a Rolls Royce barely breaking sweat. 

I'd also add that there was a fairly long spell that Kompany was struggling under Pep too but that is forgotten because of how well he ended that last season.

What's the excuse for him making ballsups in Southgates system too? The goal conceded against Holland?  It's a simple fact, the lad hasn't got it between the ears... why doesn't laporte struggle or even fermamdinho when asked to do a role there?  His mistake again at villa in the final and coy does a others....

He makes stupid mistakes.  Yeah looks great when he's striding out with the ball.....  that's about it. 

[Matt]

Fact is he’s not a CB, he’s a DCM. 

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

Fact is he’s not a CB, he’s a DCM. 

I didn't like him there at all whenever we did it. He's comfortable on the ball but I never felt he was comfortable enough to play further forward. I actually felt he was a bit awkward there tbh.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I didn't like him there at all whenever we did it. He's comfortable on the ball but I never felt he was comfortable enough to play further forward. I actually felt he was a bit awkward there tbh.

Sat in front of a back 2 who can make up for his occasional cockups, can fall back into the CB role or a back 3 when under pressure, good on the ball, good moving the ball and passing in tight situations. I said it when he was here; He just needs that extra layer behind him as a security blanket. 

[Bailey]

15 hours ago, Hafnia said:

What's the excuse for him making ballsups in Southgates system too? The goal conceded against Holland?  It's a simple fact, the lad hasn't got it between the ears... why doesn't laporte struggle or even fermamdinho when asked to do a role there?  His mistake again at villa in the final and coy does a others....

He makes stupid mistakes.  Yeah looks great when he's striding out with the ball.....  that's about it. 

His "ballsups" largely came from over playing as opposed to basic defending as it was against Holland if I remember rightly. As you are aware though, he is only with England for a few days, its not like they are drilled tactically over time.

Fernandinho does struggle as does Otamendi. Fernandinho has a great head on him but he still gets exposed.

The Villa one is a great example because he is thinking too much about playing. He just has to deal with it, but he is conflicted. If he had played under Dyche or Allardyce do you think he would have contemplated not just clearing it into row z.

5 hours ago, Matt said:

Fact is he’s not a CB, he’s a DCM. 

I would say he is best position would be as a sweeper. He definitely isn't mobile enough to play DM in my opinion.

[BedfordBlue]

Any money we have should be spent on replacing our shit midfield our centre backs are fine.I  don't expect us to spend loads because of financial fair play so midfield has to be priority 

[Hafnia]

17 hours ago, Bailey said:

His "ballsups" largely came from over playing as opposed to basic defending as it was against Holland if I remember rightly. As you are aware though, he is only with England for a few days, its not like they are drilled tactically over time.

Fernandinho does struggle as does Otamendi. Fernandinho has a great head on him but he still gets exposed.

The Villa one is a great example because he is thinking too much about playing. He just has to deal with it, but he is conflicted. If he had played under Dyche or Allardyce do you think he would have contemplated not just clearing it into row z.

I would say he is best position would be as a sweeper. He definitely isn't mobile enough to play DM in my opinion.

It's all but but but.... he's not a kid any more.

He isn't a proper defender.  When pep would sooner play otamendi it tells you everything. 

He is not going to turn into a no nonsense defender. Mentally he hasn't got it, concentration is piss poor. 

We need Everton to makevsteps forward, he offers nothing more than Mina - may be a bit better or whatever. Fact is neither are good enough. 

[c1982]

I’d prefer Ake from Bournemouth personally. Tidy with the ball but a much more aggressive defender. Yes, it looks like he’ll be relegated as part of an awful Bournemouth defence but I think Ancelotti could work wonders with him. He’s left footed too and offers versatility - both, we are lacking in.

[Romey 1878]

https://www.football365.com/news/ppe-guardiola-casts-doubt-john-stones-manchester-city-future

[Bailey]

5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

It's all but but but.... he's not a kid any more.

He isn't a proper defender.  When pep would sooner play otamendi it tells you everything. 

He is not going to turn into a no nonsense defender. Mentally he hasn't got it, concentration is piss poor. 

We need Everton to makevsteps forward, he offers nothing more than Mina - may be a bit better or whatever. Fact is neither are good enough. 

For the sake of everyone, I will say we will just have to agree to disagree.

5 hours ago, c1982 said:

I’d prefer Ake from Bournemouth personally. Tidy with the ball but a much more aggressive defender. Yes, it looks like he’ll be relegated as part of an awful Bournemouth defence but I think Ancelotti could work wonders with him. He’s left footed too and offers versatility - both, we are lacking in.

I would agree here as he would be a better fit for the team. I think he is the occasional naive moment but he has a lot on his plate at Bournemouth especially given the limitations of the players around him. Another bonus with Ake is that he is very quick.

I don't know what price they are talking about with Stones but I expect you can double it for Ake. Coming from Chelsea originally, I don't expect his wages will be cheap either.

 

[c1982]

6 minutes ago, Bailey said:

For the sake of everyone, I will say we will just have to agree to disagree.

I would agree here as he would be a better fit for the team. I think he is the occasional naive moment but he has a lot on his plate at Bournemouth especially given the limitations of the players around him. Another bonus with Ake is that he is very quick.

I don't know what price they are talking about with Stones but I expect you can double it for Ake. Coming from Chelsea originally, I don't expect his wages will be cheap either.

 

I’d imagine there would be a release clause in many of the Bournemouth player’s contracts if they went down so in Ake’s case you’d imagine a fee similar to what they signed him for. Regardless, I don’t think Bournemouth would be able to afford keeping him in the Championship on the £100k or whatever he must be on so doubt he’d cost as much as what his market value really is. If they were to stay up, I think they’d be asking too much for him to be a worthwhile signing.

[Bailey]

1 minute ago, c1982 said:

I’d imagine there would be a release clause in many of the Bournemouth player’s contracts if they went down so in Ake’s case you’d imagine a fee similar to what they signed him for. Regardless, I don’t think Bournemouth would be able to afford keeping him in the Championship on the £100k or whatever he must be on so doubt he’d cost as much as what his market value really is. If they were to stay up, I think they’d be asking too much for him to be a worthwhile signing.

Yeh very good point about the release clause, I hadn't thought about that.

I am pretty sure they were asking for about £40-50 million in the summer window and whilst it may dip with relegation and Covid-19, unless there is a release clause, I dont see him going for too much less.

[Finn balor]

We need to get out of the “let’s buy people’s cast offs” we’ve been doing it for years and are still doing it.Brands was supposed to be changing that ethos 

[Wiggytop]

5 hours ago, Finn balor said:

We need to get out of the “let’s buy people’s cast offs” we’ve been doing it for years and are still doing it.Brands was supposed to be changing that ethos 

Surely every player is a cast off if they leave a team, difference is some are worth buying other aren’t , Ake yes, Delph no.

Peter Reid was a Bolton injury prone cast off when we bought him, that turned out OK

[Bailey]

9 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

Surely every player is a cast off if they leave a team, difference is some are worth buying other aren’t , Ake yes, Delph no.

Peter Reid was a Bolton injury prone cast off when we bought him, that turned out OK

I'd argue some of our best players of recent years have been cast offs. Arteta, Pienaar, Saha, Lusaka, Kanchelskis, Howard, Digne etc

Its more of a case of buying the wrong cast offs!

[Finn balor]

18 hours ago, Wiggytop said:

Surely every player is a cast off if they leave a team, difference is some are worth buying other aren’t , Ake yes, Delph no.

Peter Reid was a Bolton injury prone cast off when we bought him, that turned out OK

No a cast off is someone who the other team don’t mind selling. I’m talking we should be identifying players that are starters for their team in whatever league 

[Shukes]

Anyone, just anyone.

[markjazzbassist]

On 08/07/2020 at 03:51, c1982 said:

I’d prefer Ake from Bournemouth personally. Tidy with the ball but a much more aggressive defender. Yes, it looks like he’ll be relegated as part of an awful Bournemouth defence but I think Ancelotti could work wonders with him. He’s left footed too and offers versatility - both, we are lacking in.

yeah i wanted him at chelsea, nice player, i think he would be great here.

[Bailey]

Ake just made a filthy block on Vardy that he had no right to get to. Injured himself in the process too.