Board/Owners Related Stuff

[Palfy]

17 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

OK. It's quite precise info.

 

18 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

OK. It's quite precise info.

All will become available very soon when Moshiri and MSP have dotted the i’s and crossed the t’s, unless of course they can’t agree on terms of the deal. 
I believe that if it does go through MSP want 2 Directors on the board. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.everton.news/in-the-shadows-there-is-another-group-looking-to-takeover-at-everton-as-777-partners-wait-goes-on/

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-takeover-777-partners-face-28971168

[RuffRob]

and today's bad news is that the entity who have spent the last 7 month trying to buy the club basically don't have enough money.

not the most of moral boosting of weeks is it?

[Matt Tiger]

1 minute ago, RuffRob said:

and today's bad news is that the entity who have spent the last 7 month trying to buy the club basically don't have enough money.

not the most of moral boosting of weeks is it?

Was a truly tough read. We’ve got ourselves in such financial dire straits that we can’t even be bought.

[Zoo 2.0]

I'm sure people have said this/have been feeling this but relegation is the least of our worries. Even if we survive this season, we're a club on life support. The current owner doesn't want to own the club and those that do can't afford it (and if they did have ownership, would probably be busy asset stripping anyway). It's hard to see where any positivity looks realistic with Everton, it's like we're fighting with all our might to take one step forward whilst an almighty wind is pushing us seventeen steps back.

[Palfy]

Now maybe people can understand why I’ve been banging on about it wasn’t the right time to build a Stadium, we were already 450 million in debt with over 90% of our turnover going on wages, yet we committed to 800 million stadium to bring our debt to somewhere around a mind boggling 1.25 billion, without the funding to do it. 
Like I said I would love a nice new shiny stadium but not a the cost of the club. 

[Newty82]

9 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

I'm sure people have said this/have been feeling this but relegation is the least of our worries. Even if we survive this season, we're a club on life support. The current owner doesn't want to own the club and those that do can't afford it (and if they did have ownership, would probably be busy asset stripping anyway). It's hard to see where any positivity looks realistic with Everton, it's like we're fighting with all our might to take one step forward whilst an almighty wind is pushing us seventeen steps back.

And what's worrying too is the lack of sellable assets on the pitch.

We've a few in the first team but nothing coming through the youth ranks. So it seems.

I think this'll be the first season in...dunno...that there's been no sign of a player stepping up.

[Newty82]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Now maybe people can understand why I’ve been banging on about it wasn’t the right time to build a Stadium, we were already 450 million in debt with over 90% of our turnover going on wages, yet we committed to 800 million stadium to bring our debt to somewhere around a mind boggling 1.25 billion, without the funding to do it. 
Like I said I would love a nice new shiny stadium but not a the cost of the club. 

Does the stadium not become an asset that offset some of the debt? No doubt the stadium value will be more than the cost to build.

[Palfy]

Just now, Newty82 said:

Does the stadium not become an asset that offset some of the debt? No doubt the stadium value will be more than the cost to build.

It would if we had time to sell it, but doesn’t that go against the whole philosophy of building a stadium owned by the club so we could increase our earnings and not deplete them by renting. 
I said before we should have filled the dock and mothballed the build and saved the club until we were financially secure enough to recommence the project. 

[Newty82]

31 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It would if we had time to sell it, but doesn’t that go against the whole philosophy of building a stadium owned by the club so we could increase our earnings and not deplete them by renting. 
I said before we should have filled the dock and mothballed the build and saved the club until we were financially secure enough to recommence the project. 

No, what I mean is...

The asset makes the debt 'safe'.

Like, I owe X amount on my mortgage. So I'm in debt.

But my house is worth twice as much as my mortgage. So, I'm OK. No panic. Keep making my payments, everyone's happy.

If I need to lend more money, I can. Because I've got this asset that I can still get cash against.

If, for some mad reason my wife went off with my boys, I'd have 2 rooms spare. Now I can rent them out and make money.

So now I have an asset worth more than my debt and it's generating me income.

Happy Days!

[RuffRob]

https://www.thelondonlions.com/news/a-statement-from-777-partners

just on the news tonight that Women London Lions basketball team have tonight become the first British bb team to every win the Euro Cup. 

plenty of dòom and gloom stories about 777 Partnership, but this appears to be a bit of a feather in there cap.

it has fuck all to do with their finances, but perhaps shows that maybe they do have something about them. 

[RuffRob]

12 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

https://www.thelondonlions.com/news/a-statement-from-777-partners

just on the news tonight that Women London Lions basketball team have tonight become the first British bb team to every win the Euro Cup. 

plenty of dòom and gloom stories about 777 Partnership, but this appears to be a bit of a feather in there cap.

it has fuck all to do with their finances, but perhaps shows that maybe they do have something about them. 

although, when the story came on in detail it said they will not be defending their title next season as 777 are pulling their funding.

Can't even fund a women's basketball team!!!

back to doom and gloom!!! 

[Palfy]

18 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

No, what I mean is...

The asset makes the debt 'safe'.

Like, I owe X amount on my mortgage. So I'm in debt.

But my house is worth twice as much as my mortgage. So, I'm OK. No panic. Keep making my payments, everyone's happy.

If I need to lend more money, I can. Because I've got this asset that I can still get cash against.

If, for some mad reason my wife went off with my boys, I'd have 2 rooms spare. Now I can rent them out and make money.

So now I have an asset worth more than my debt and it's generating me income.

Happy Days!

If you can carry on making your mortgage repayments until you are ready to sell and the value of your property is more than mortgage then yes it’s an asset. 
BMD should have been an asset to the club in more ways than just financially, but because we can’t afford the loan repayments and still haven’t borrowed all the money needed to pay for it, it’s turned out to be a millstone around our neck. 
Have you told your wife and kids of your plans for a financially secure future for yourself, when you do let me know how you get on when you get out of hospital

[Matt Tiger]

4 hours ago, Newty82 said:

No, what I mean is...

The asset makes the debt 'safe'.

Like, I owe X amount on my mortgage. So I'm in debt.

But my house is worth twice as much as my mortgage. So, I'm OK. No panic. Keep making my payments, everyone's happy.

If I need to lend more money, I can. Because I've got this asset that I can still get cash against.

If, for some mad reason my wife went off with my boys, I'd have 2 rooms spare. Now I can rent them out and make money.

So now I have an asset worth more than my debt and it's generating me income.

Happy Days!

Not really… a house can be sold to any number of people looking for a place to live. I can’t imagine the shite are looking to leave anfield anytime soon so the stadium is really only valuable to us. 

[Newty82]

5 hours ago, Matt Tiger said:

Not really… a house can be sold to any number of people looking for a place to live. I can’t imagine the shite are looking to leave anfield anytime soon so the stadium is really only valuable to us. 

I wasn't on about selling the house. I'm happy living in it and renting out the spare rooms

I'm on about my house being worth more than my debt...so I can release cash against it.

I mean, I could be completely wrong here! But is that not just business? Businesses regularly use their assets as a means to guarantee any cash they need to then go and grow and expand the business?

Now, before anyone gets this twisted. I'm not at all saying that we're all OK. Everything will be fine. My only point here is that a chunk (not all!) of the debt MIGHT be 'safe' as it's been used to build an asset that will generate more value over time. Which, again, is business, right?!

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

I wasn't on about selling the house. I'm happy living in it and renting out the spare rooms

I'm on about my house being worth more than my debt...so I can release cash against it.

I mean, I could be completely wrong here! But is that not just business? Businesses regularly use their assets as a means to guarantee any cash they need to then go and grow and expand the business?

Now, before anyone gets this twisted. I'm not at all saying that we're all OK. Everything will be fine. My only point here is that a chunk (not all!) of the debt MIGHT be 'safe' as it's been used to build an asset that will generate more value over time. Which, again, is business, right?!

That’s like saying you could go out and buy a block of 40 apartments at 150k each for 6 million and then rent them out to make a profit, but forgetting you haven’t got 6 million or you haven’t got the means to repay the loans on 6 million, but you go ahead with the purchase without securing the finances in the correct manner, and end up borrowing money from investment companies who charge extortionate rates of interest that are wiping out any potential profit you may have able to make. Now does that sound like a good investment or business model to you. 
Because Moshiri thought it was a good business model, for reasons unknown to anyone bar himself he decided to go ahead with the Stadium when the club was already 450 million in debt and rising, he decided to go ahead with the stadium with out the funding in position, he then couldn’t raise the money through more conventional means like banks at a reasonable rate of interest, instead he had to go and source the financing from profiteering private investment companies at more than double the rate of interest of the more conventional lenders, with the interest on these loans exceeding 39 million a year at the last count and that’s just interest and no capital repayments, on a Stadium that hasn’t made any return for the investment and won’t for another 18 months, and when it does the projected extra turnover for the club was stated as 35 million a year, but that figure will be completely dwarfed by the interest we pay on the loans to pay for the build, which I might add have not all been fully sourced yet. 
Now that business model is what’s happened to Everton led by Moshiri, he allowed the club to go another 85 million in debt last year with nearly half of that in just interest payments, we can sell all our big players and maybe raise 200 million if we are lucky, but the debt and the interest will keep getting bigger, the club will fall out of the PL and eventually go to wall. 
What was meant to be a monumental moment in our history has turned out to be the club’s most monumental disastrous decision. 

[StevO]

11 hours ago, Newty82 said:

Does the stadium not become an asset that offset some of the debt? No doubt the stadium value will be more than the cost to build.

Yes. Right now we have big debts but technically nothing to show for it. Once the stadium is complete we have a massive asset that generates turnover, and a debt offset against the asset. It’s not about selling it either, it’s just security. 
We’re just in a bridging phase for the remainder of the build. 
Financially the stadium won’t be a problem when it’s up and running. 

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, StevO said:

Yes. Right now we have big debts but technically nothing to show for it. Once the stadium is complete we have a massive asset that generates turnover, and a debt offset against the asset. It’s not about selling it either, it’s just security. 
We’re just in a bridging phase for the remainder of the build. 
Financially the stadium won’t be a problem when it’s up and running. 

So we sell the stadium to cut our deficit, because the income once up and running won’t make the interest payments on the loans. 

[StevO]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

So we sell the stadium to cut our deficit, because the income once up and running won’t make the interest payments on the loans. 

No it doesn’t need to be sold. 
All these loans we’ve got are to complete the stadium, but right now we don’t have an asset to secure them against. When we do everything can be restructured. 
777 have done most of the lending anyway, so if they get control of the club it’s pretty straightforward. 

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, StevO said:

No it doesn’t need to be sold. 
All these loans we’ve got are to complete the stadium, but right now we don’t have an asset to secure them against. When we do everything can be restructured. 
777 have done most of the lending anyway, so if they get control of the club it’s pretty straightforward. 

MSP and someone else who’s name as escaped me at the moment have made significant loans for the as well, with MSP loan of 158 million for the stadium solely, they have to be paid back in full by April 18th the or they can can claim 51% of Moshiri’s shares, which they don’t want to do because being sensible they don’t want to be saddled with a business that’s so much in debt, Moshiri’s deal with 777 was that they pay MSP 777 can’t raise the funds so they asked MSP to do a ground share which MSP turned down, they just want their money back like all sensible business imo when they can see no good future for their investment they just want their money back and to get out. 

[Romey 1878]

I think the deal will go through eventually and 777 will be our new owners.

It fills me with dread tbh so I'll be hoping that we can survive their time as owners as I don't think it'll be a long tenure.

[RuffRob]

the real prolem with Everton at the moment is their is just to much dust in the air around the place at the moment. 

Point deductions crap and another relegation battle (so not 100% what league we will be kicking off in next season) - massive different in the value of a Prem club to a EFL club, stadium three quarters built and another season to negosiate before we actually move in, massive loans with three different entities, limbo of who will eventually own us. 

If nothing else 777 Partners coming in should provide a period for the dust to settle. I am pretty sure given the size of the Everton purchase for them, we will be getting the attention of their very best people in working on making Everton a signifcantly better brand - and that is kind of what football is all about now. 

We can move forward at all until this happen. 

I also think saleable players will be sold well before there would be any thought of a stadium sale. The Stadium is (or is about to be) the Everton crown jewel. Players are always replacable.

 

[Matt]

9 hours ago, Matt Tiger said:

Not really… a house can be sold to any number of people looking for a place to live. I can’t imagine the shite are looking to leave anfield anytime soon so the stadium is really only valuable to us. 

Could easily be converted to an events hall.

[StevO]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

 

I also think saleable players will be sold well before there would be any thought of a stadium sale. The Stadium is (or is about to be) the Everton crown jewel. Players are always replacable.

 

Completely agree, Rob. 
Also, the stadium is costing around £760m to build (based on Moshiri’s last comments about it), it will have a similar sized debt once completed as we’ve not funded from our own money. So when it’s complete there wouldn’t really be a financial benefit to selling it. It wouldn’t really have any significant profit, and instead of repayments we would be paying rent. 
I don’t see a scenario where we sell it any time soon. 
With the land being leased from Peel, we may not even be able to sell it. 

[StevO]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

Could easily be converted to an events hall.

Already got a nice one down the road. 

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, StevO said:

Already got a nice one down the road. 

Which one? The Echo Arena? It's capacity is 10k and a bit shit really. If you're a big name act, you'll want 50k seats over 10k, it's 5 times the revenue.

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, StevO said:

Completely agree, Rob. 
Also, the stadium is costing around £760m to build (based on Moshiri’s last comments about it), it will have a similar sized debt once completed as we’ve not funded from our own money. So when it’s complete there wouldn’t really be a financial benefit to selling it. It wouldn’t really have any significant profit, and instead of repayments we would be paying rent. 
I don’t see a scenario where we sell it any time soon. 
With the land being leased from Peel, we may not even be able to sell it. 

Is it though if 777 are footing the bill and plan to turn that debt into equity?

[Newty82]

Away from the debt thing...I've said my piece on that. Don't want to bore you all!!!

My next concern is how any cash released from the asset (stadium) is used.

I fear that it is all too easy to release cash against it and award shareholders, while the place and club rots.

For example, Glazers at United.

Or, just like what various water companies did in the 90s when privatised. Instead of getting loans against the assets to improve them...they paid handsome dividends to shareholders. Now the water companies, facilities and systems are fucked!

[Palfy]

9 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Away from the debt thing...I've said my piece on that. Don't want to bore you all!!!

My next concern is how any cash released from the asset (stadium) is used.

I fear that it is all too easy to release cash against it and award shareholders, while the place and club rots.

For example, Glazers at United.

Or, just like what various water companies did in the 90s when privatised. Instead of getting loans against the assets to improve them...they paid handsome dividends to shareholders. Now the water companies, facilities and systems are fucked!

Get a water meter