Board/Owners Related Stuff

[Newty82]

37 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Get a water meter

Cumbria mate...surrounded by the bloody stuff. It's a crime that we have to pay for it when we could go up the road and help ourselves

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Could easily be converted to an events hall.

Anfield surely isn't that bad?

Looks like it's been modelled on staple punches but not so bad you'd turn it into that.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Newty82 said:

Away from the debt thing...I've said my piece on that. Don't want to bore you all!!!

My next concern is how any cash released from the asset (stadium) is used.

I fear that it is all too easy to release cash against it and award shareholders, while the place and club rots.

For example, Glazers at United.

Or, just like what various water companies did in the 90s when privatised. Instead of getting loans against the assets to improve them...they paid handsome dividends to shareholders. Now the water companies, facilities and systems are fucked!

There wont be cash to release against it, its being built with debt. If any cash is released it would have to settle the debt first, which would leave no cash left.

Once the stadium is built and handed over to the club, they can then refinance the debts. So we could put all of the debts into one place and with the security of the stadium we can get a lower interest rate. Now we have debts secured against an unfinished stadium there is higher risk and higher interest.

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Is it though if 777 are footing the bill and plan to turn that debt into equity?

If they turn the debt into equity I have no problem with that. Seems thats what the PL want them to do anyway.

[Matt]

17 minutes ago, StevO said:

If they turn the debt into equity I have no problem with that. Seems thats what the PL want them to do anyway.

Pretty sure that's what I read somewhere. The stupid interest doesn't matter as much then, otherwise 777 would be putting themselves at risk.

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Anfield surely isn't that bad?

Looks like it's been modelled on staple punches but not so bad you'd turn it into that.

Steve said a nice one. Their shed hadn't crossed my mind

 

[Palfy]

The biggest stumbling block with 777 is that they can’t raise the money, and time’s running out for the club to avoid going into receivership, and what that could mean for the future doesn’t really bear thinking about. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

The biggest stumbling block with 777 is that they can’t raise the money, and time’s running out for the club to avoid going into receivership, and what that could mean for the future doesn’t really bear thinking about. 

You need to chill out Palfy. All this stuff will get you too stressed. 

[RuffRob]

If we hadn't had 8 points deducted this season, and we where already pretty much safe (since pretty much Xmas) around mid-table (rather than in a relagation battle), you can't help but wonder if the 777 Partners would have found it significantly easier in raising the funds for purchase of Everton FC had we already had one foot in next years PL. 

Ground broken and comittment to the build made and then the overnight enforced loss of the actual Russian billionarie who we all know was behind the ownership of the club and the real money behind everything, three years of relegation battles, 18months of talk of PSR, whole season of being charged and docking of points, 30-40% raise in the cost of construction works - as well as poor management there are some massive slices of very bad luck in the timing of what is arguble the single biggest investment the club has ever made - all now currently now being done on a rudderless ship. 

I am going to hazard a guess that the stadium will possibley come in around £150 to 200M over the original budget forcast.  

[Hafnia]

say it ain't so Joe...... afraid it is kid. 
 

quite amazing how a passionate fanbase can ignore other passionate fans just cos they believe the person in charge loves the club and the people calling them into question were somehow trouble causers.

hopefully we survive our current predicament and these fans can maybe look at themselves and say "I got fooled once but it won't happen again" 

[Hafnia]

 

 

quite horrible reading the latest on how we've been run into the ground.  All about ego and greed.  Very very sad. 

[Gwlad]

File this under 'You couldn't make it up'.

[badaids]

Well.  With the various pieces of news coming out on takeovers, debt, risk, points deductions, even more future points deductions , tens of millions spent servicing useless debt, I kind of feel that we could be entering the beginning of the end of the club here.  Whether 777 take over, or administration, or worse.  Madness.

[Hafnia]

53 minutes ago, Gwlad said:

File this under 'You couldn't make it up'.

 

file it under "we were told about this a long time ago" I'm afraid.  Many laughed and didn't believe it.... but here's the Esk basically confirming it all.  Who was it who said Phillip green was Mozart? 
 

he had the best interests of the club at heart allegedly. 

[Newty82]

I remember years ago these companies being on BBC Panorama. Eye opening how they work.

At the same time, with Moshiri (Usmanov) money, why didn't they just pay RMF off? That's always been a hard to understand bit for me.

[Hafnia]

12 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

I remember years ago these companies being on BBC Panorama. Eye opening how they work.

At the same time, with Moshiri (Usmanov) money, why didn't they just pay RMF off? That's always been a hard to understand bit for me.

Looks to me like someone tied us into some sort of ironclad loan shark type arrangement.  I mean why would they unless they other friends stood to benefit from the money that exits the club. 

[Newty82]

7 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Looks to me like someone tied us into some sort of ironclad loan shark type arrangement.  I mean why would they unless they other friends stood to benefit from the money that exits the club. 

I'm sure for years our financial set up has been the reason many haven't touched us. And then along comes an accountant...

[RuffRob]

6 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

I remember years ago these companies being on BBC Panorama. Eye opening how they work.

At the same time, with Moshiri (Usmanov) money, why didn't they just pay RMF off? That's always been a hard to understand bit for me.

I was kind of thinking the very same thing. Moshiri (Usmanov) where the billionaire's who have own the club over the past 6 years or so and they have had both plenty of time and the resources to restructure RMF financing under their watch.This debt wasn't an issue 3-5 years ago when money was being wasted left right and centre on bang average players.

There have been poor decisons going back many a year, which all just seem to compound themselves. We have had plenty of back luck on the way mind you, but much of our trouble are bourne of poor decision making.

My personnal take on this - modern football clubs need to be run by modern global sport focused business people and it has been for sometime, 'romantic' local owners are simply out of their depth in the PL era, however well their intentions might be.

I think Kenwright thought he was going to get the next Abramavich (via Moshiri) for the club when he sold his shares - but that dream slowly turned in to a nightmare and culminated into a total cluster fuck once Usmanov's ability to invest was forced out of the equation and now Moshiri is scurrying off behind him and simply trying to get as much of his money back as he can. The whole thing is a financial mish mash now Moshiri simply wants out. 

 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

I'm sure for years our financial set up has been the reason many haven't touched us. And then along comes an accountant...

All those NDAs, Phillip Green tracked wyness to Majorca in his yacht when wyness mysteriously resigned.

I've said it for years - our club was used as greens bank account.  

[Newty82]

1 minute ago, Hafnia said:

All those NDAs, Phillip Green tracked wyness to Majorca in his yacht when wyness mysteriously resigned.

I've said it for years - our club was used as greens bank account.  

Yeah. I remember well all the Philip Green stuff.

I remember looking into all years ago. Years before Moshiri came along.

I used to save the clubs annual accounts on my laptop to look and compare

There was always something not right with our finances. I think that's clear as day.

What I was generally torn on was how deliberate BK was being in what was going on. I could never quite suss if it was genuine ego and control or a what's need must scenario.

For me, personally, I think the last several years started make the answer clearer as each year passed.

[Hafnia]

14 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Yeah. I remember well all the Philip Green stuff.

I remember looking into all years ago. Years before Moshiri came along.

I used to save the clubs annual accounts on my laptop to look and compare

There was always something not right with our finances. I think that's clear as day.

What I was generally torn on was how deliberate BK was being in what was going on. I could never quite suss if it was genuine ego and control or a what's need must scenario.

For me, personally, I think the last several years started make the answer clearer as each year passed.

It blew my mind that so many fans were kidded by him. I'm not a fan of luvvies as it is - Oscar acceptance speeches typify what they are about. Ricky Gervais will go down in folklore for nailing their type.

the cancellation of agms was everything people needed to know.  

[Romey 1878]

I haven't really wanted to comment on the past too much seeing as he's dead now but everything we're seeing now comes to back to Billy Bullshit and his narcissism.

It was great that he came in and bought the club from Johnson, I'm sure we were all grateful for that, but he never had the money to own a football club and if he'd done what he said he was going to do, which was to sell the club on ASAP then he would be remembered fondly for that. Instead he couldn't let go because of his own ego - biggest blue there is, my arse. So because he didn't have the money to own a football club he saddled us with more and more debt so that he could keep his trainset. More and more debt that helped make his friends rich too, conveniently.

24/7 he was looking for a new buyer apparently so why did it take so long to finally happen? Because Bill Kenwright was looking for the perfect buyer for Bill Kenwright and not the best buyer for Everton Football Club. It was scandalous that he got to stay on in a role of power and it blows my mind that there was so many fans that bought the thought that it would just be a symbolic role with no power. For me, it was obvious from the outset what was happening but I'm not going to lay blame at the feet of the fans because we're all paying for it now. No pointing fingers is necessary.

It boils my blood that he didn't put a penny into this football club (that all came out during the Kirkby inquiry), sent it into a spiral, and then sold to make himself a very rich man and his friends even richer.

Do you know what's a shame though? It didn't have to be like this, he didn't have to tell so many lies. He could have used him being an Evertonian in a better way - he could have been straighter with the fanbase because he would have got so much more leeway because of who he was. Instead he lied, lied, lied and then finally attacked the very fanbase that makes this club what it is.

He was a shit owner and a shit Evertonian. I hate him.

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I haven't really wanted to comment on the past too much seeing as he's dead now but everything we're seeing now comes to back to Billy Bullshit and his narcissism.

It was great that he came in and bought the club from Johnson, I'm sure we were all grateful for that, but he never had the money to own a football club and if he'd done what he said he was going to do, which was to sell the club on ASAP then he would be remembered fondly for that. Instead he couldn't let go because of his own ego - biggest blue there is, my arse. So because he didn't have the money to own a football club he saddled us with more and more debt so that he could keep his trainset. More and more debt that helped make his friends rich too, conveniently.

24/7 he was looking for a new buyer apparently so why did it take so long to finally happen? Because Bill Kenwright was looking for the perfect buyer for Bill Kenwright and not the best buyer for Everton Football Club. It was scandalous that he got to stay on in a role of power and it blows my mind that there was so many fans that bought the thought that it would just be a symbolic role with no power. For me, it was obvious from the outset what was happening but I'm not going to lay blame at the feet of the fans because we're all paying for it now. No pointing fingers is necessary.

It boils my blood that he didn't put a penny into this football club (that all came out during the Kirkby inquiry), sent it into a spiral, and then sold to make himself a very rich man and his friends even richer.

Do you know what's a shame though? It didn't have to be like this, he didn't have to tell so many lies. He could have used him being an Evertonian in a better way - he could have been straighter with the fanbase because he would have got so much more leeway because of who he was. Instead he lied, lied, lied and then finally attacked the very fanbase that makes this club what it is.

He was a shit owner and a shit Evertonian. I hate him.

I suppose you managed to capture a lot of what I've said over a period of 15 years in one post there.

For me I didn't hate him - I seen him as someone who we all come across in life as someone not to be trusted and dealt with accordingly.  I got more annoyed at people who defended him - our own fans, media, ex players like sharp who attacked the ones who accurately called him out. 

the pivotal moment was when his face got put on a screen and fans clapped him and he did his "over emotional slumped and humbled bullshit look" - he literally must have been thinking "I can do as I please".

He did the things that made him look good extremely well. He was great at working the room, charming people, ringing fans up for chats, and yeah I do think there was a decent person there but ultimately he was flawed in the sense that he had a huge need for admiration and control. He was a fantasist. 
 

I'm pissed off at those who in misplaced loyalty defended him and stopped a process from happening which would have seen us in safer hands.   

For all the shit I got for calling out the stuff that's come to be true - I don't see many of the people who took time to argue the toss say "I got it wrong". 

[Palfy]

You get people in life that love someone or something so much that they are prepared to do whatever it takes to keep it, even if it means killing the person or thing they love or themselves. 
I think Bill lost site of the real reason he took ownership of the club, and in not wanting to give it up he nearly killed it.

And unfortunately for the fans and great for him he fell up on manager in Moyes that did miracles on a small budget, that kept the fans relatively quiet and took the focus away from him so he could just concentrate on being Mr Everton and do all the things that he needed to gain brownie points in the community and with a lot of the younger players. 
Then Moyes left and things started to go to rat shit, so he sold up to hide the sham of the club’s finances and in doing so made sure he kept a high profile in the club as part of the deal. Then things got worse and worse as the years went on with the new owner who is absolutely fucking clueless, now I’m not saying Bill new at the outset that he hold to an idiot he would have believed he had sold to the right person who had the knowledge and money to make Everton a successful club, and he could have enjoyed is last year’s sat at the head of the directors box enjoying the journey and milking the adulation which we new he liked to do. 
So I don’t hate because at some point or stage he believed he was doing the right thing, then that changed when his decision making and judgement was all about what was best for him to keep the reins on the club and not the club. 

[StevO]

The saddest part of all of it for me is that Bill was the saviour of the evil Peter Johnson, yet leaves with no real legacy. 
Peter Johnson delivered an FA Cup win. 
Even Moshiri will deliver a stadium. 
I don’t see anything to remember Bill for other than turning Evertonians against each other. 

[Hafnia]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

You get people in life that love someone or something so much that they are prepared to do whatever it takes to keep it, even if it means killing the person or thing they love or themselves. 
I think Bill lost site of the real reason he took ownership of the club, and in not wanting to give it up he nearly killed it.

And unfortunately for the fans and great for him he fell up on manager in Moyes that did miracles on a small budget, that kept the fans relatively quiet and took the focus away from him so he could just concentrate on being Mr Everton and do all the things that he needed to gain brownie points in the community and with a lot of the younger players. 
Then Moyes left and things started to go to rat shit, so he sold up to hide the sham of the club’s finances and in doing so made sure he kept a high profile in the club as part of the deal. Then things got worse and worse as the years went on with the new owner who is absolutely fucking clueless, now I’m not saying Bill new at the outset that he hold to an idiot he would have believed he had sold to the right person who had the knowledge and money to make Everton a successful club, and he could have enjoyed is last year’s sat at the head of the directors box enjoying the journey and milking the adulation which we new he liked to do. 
So I don’t hate because at some point or stage he believed he was doing the right thing, then that changed when his decision making and judgement was all about what was best for him to keep the reins on the club and not the club. 

I don't think he thought he was doing the right thing at all Palf, we know he had people telling him he was doing the wrong thing. It was at AGMs where he was told quite clearly - his response was to cancel AGMs.

He used client journalists to shut fans down, he continued to tie our club into loan shark deals with his mates which absolutely crippled us to this day.  It was all very calculated in order for him to stay in control like a dictator.

Theres been some things written that make him out to be some sort of soft Ollie who didn't understand the world he was operating in. He did - he just wanted to run his club and it was a vehicle for his ego. 

our club is an absolute mess because of him. His final chapter was to tell the media he couldn't attend games because of fans and because DBB was out in a headlock. Then he penned a bitter letter to fans.

Many of us seen it ending like this. 

 

[Palfy]

49 minutes ago, StevO said:

The saddest part of all of it for me is that Bill was the saviour of the evil Peter Johnson, yet leaves with no real legacy. 
Peter Johnson delivered an FA Cup win. 
Even Moshiri will deliver a stadium. 
I don’t see anything to remember Bill for other than turning Evertonians against each other. 

I suppose if I think about what good he has done then I would say he did support Eitc, with regular donations and work for the benefit of those in the community that needed support, possibly if the truth be known to make himself look good but for me the reason doesn’t matter as long as those who needed the support got it.  So I’ll give him credit for that side of his work at EFC. 

[Hafnia]

54 minutes ago, StevO said:

The saddest part of all of it for me is that Bill was the saviour of the evil Peter Johnson, yet leaves with no real legacy. 
Peter Johnson delivered an FA Cup win. 
Even Moshiri will deliver a stadium. 
I don’t see anything to remember Bill for other than turning Evertonians against each other. 

Quite amazing how Peter Johnson got made to sound like the worst thing to happen to the club. 

"he sold big Dunc behind Walter Smiths back" - bill tried to sell Wayne Rooney to Chelsea and ended up with the best English player of his generation going for £25m. A steal. 

"he build the park end and should have made it better" - bill tried to take us to a Tesco stadium in Kirby. 

"He only won the fa cup" - bill won nothing

 

[Hafnia]

8 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I suppose if I think about what good he has done then I would say he did support Eitc, with regular donations and work for the benefit of those in the community that needed support, possibly if the truth be known to make himself look good but for me the reason doesn’t matter as long as those who needed the support got it.  So I’ll give him credit for that side of his work at EFC. 

I tend to think our board overstated the stuff we did in the community as a means of deflecting criticism for the appalling way they ran our club. 

The fan base and Dave Kelly do amazing things for others - food banks etc. it's a given that our club is charitable. 

[Palfy]

18 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I don't think he thought he was doing the right thing at all Palf, we know he had people telling him he was doing the wrong thing. It was at AGMs where he was told quite clearly - his response was to cancel AGMs.

He used client journalists to shut fans down, he continued to tie our club into loan shark deals with his mates which absolutely crippled us to this day.  It was all very calculated in order for him to stay in control like a dictator.

Theres been some things written that make him out to be some sort of soft Ollie who didn't understand the world he was operating in. He did - he just wanted to run his club and it was a vehicle for his ego. 

our club is an absolute mess because of him. His final chapter was to tell the media he couldn't attend games because of fans and because DBB was out in a headlock. Then he penned a bitter letter to fans.

Many of us seen it ending like this. 

 

I accept all that he did as the years rolled on my point was that I don’t believe he set out on that path from the beginning, I believe in the beginning he had all the best intentions to do right for the club, but started to change early on and turned into the man that destroyed a club for his own destiny, so please don’t misunderstand me Haf I’m not defending him for how things turned out he shit on us in the worst possible way in the end, but do I believe from day one that was his agenda I have to be honest no I don’t. 

[Hafnia]

17 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I accept all that he did as the years rolled on my point was that I don’t believe he set out on that path from the beginning, I believe in the beginning he had all the best intentions to do right for the club, but started to change early on and turned into the man that destroyed a club for his own destiny, so please don’t misunderstand me Haf I’m not defending him for how things turned out he shit on us in the worst possible way in the end, but do I believe from day one that was his agenda I have to be honest no I don’t. 

yeah I think he enjoyed being the white knight at the start.