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Stadium thread: Reprise edition

Louis

By Louis
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Cornish Steve
Cornish Steve

I think they need to agree a public rail system first.

Lowensda
Lowensda

So apart from forecasted figures, we're still none the fooking wiser as to what's actually happening and they've managed to create an artical and mild excitment, by recycling information we already kn

StevO
StevO

John, maybe start an online petition to the council, if you do we will all sign it.   Just give us a way to help and we will all get on board.

Guest John Burns

Guest John Burns

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The Walton Hall site has been earmarked because of the potential mass transit rail connections. After Kirkby was rejected with transport being one of the issues, sense has descended on the council and EFC. To the east of Walton Hall Park there is the used Bootle Branch Line to the docks, which can also serve LFC as the line runs between LFC and Walton Hall Park. This line is not particularly right on the doorsteps of both sites, but sort of will inefficiently work. The Walton Hall Park Site has the mothballed eastern section of the Merseyrail Outer Loop line (a line that circles the city) awaiting reuse. This site is the ideal choice for EFC if it is reused. It could really shift the fans in and out quick and in volume from all over Merseyside and beyond, with mainline train connections and airport connections if the station is every built at the airport.

 

In some political circles in Liverpool there is talk of preparing for a Commonwealth games bid. Ideally a full sports complex with EFC at one end and LFC the other and other sports facilities between, served by the mass transit rail network, Merseyrail. However if LFC continue on their ludicrous desires to stay in the current poor location (and decline the Anfield district even further) other ways have to be considered using EFC. International games tournaments like the Commonwealth and the Olympics mass transit rail is a precursor, certainly with the Olympics. The Olympic Committee will not entertain an Olympic venue unless mass transit is in place. London's extensive mass transit network struggled in 2012, however that was before Crossrail was brought online. In Liverpool the idea is to open up the full Outer Loop Merseyrail line, that circles the city, and create a linear sports complex with the rail line connecting up the facilities with Walton Hall Park being one. Once a Commonwealth games has been staged the next step will be the Olympics - in the future. Once the sites and transport are set up and reserved the hard bit is done. EFC can greatly benefit and be a big part in the sports aspirations of the city.

 

Liverpool was instrumental in the establishment of the modern Olympics having two international Olympic tournaments in the 1860s, one at Mount Vernon. Liverpool's long term sporting aspirations must be to hold the Olympics.

Edited by John Burns
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Lowensda Newbie

Lowensda

Posted
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Credit EvertonViral -

 

Apparant plans for the original WHP build -

 

http://evertonviral.com/everton-fc-walton-hall-park/

 

Liverpool City Council and Everton Football Club have announced their desire to progress a transformational regeneration opportunity for North Liverpool based at Walton Hall Park

 

awhp.png

Speaking publicly this week on the proposed plan to relocate the club to nearby Walton Hall Park, Everton chairman Bill Kenwright has claimed a new stadium in the park for Everton Football Club ‘ticks all the boxes.’

“On my journey to our home games, as I pass Walton Hall Park, I inevitably think that I am only a minute away from our beloved Goodison,” said Kenwright.

“For several years now I’ve also thought, if only it was available for our new stadium, it ticks all the boxes.”

While many an Evertonian will take Bill Kenwright’s public quotes with more than a pinch of salt, the claims of the Blues chairman concerning his long standing interest in Walton Hall Park as a possible site for a brand new home for Everton Football Club more than ring true.

In fact, back in the spring of 2003 Bill Kenwright accepted an invitation from local business man John Seddon to pay a visit to Walton Hall Park and view the prospective site of a proposed new home for Everton FC.

The site visit followed a meeting between the two men at a Liverpool city centre hotel in March 2003.

Unfortunately for Seddon, Kenwright and Everton, any hope of progressing a plan which John Seddon had initially proposed to Liverpool City Council back in 2000, came to an abrupt halt as Kenwright signed an exclusivity agreement with supermarket giants Tesco for the ill fated ‘Destination Kirkby’ project.

Undeterred, Seddon pushed on with his plan for Walton Hall Park and in 2007, after securing firm interest in a stadium project from a rival supermarket giant, Mr Seddon and Sainsbury’s held several meetings with the then leader of Liverpool City Council Warren Bradley.

Speaking to the Liverpool Echo in 2008, Mr Seddon said:

“Sainsbury’s were one of the people interested in the whole concept of Walton Hall park and took a serious interest, as Tesco have in Kirkby.”

Mr Seddon also revealed Sainsbury’s had gone as far as publishing a prospective brochure on the Walton Hall Park plan and had acquired the services of Sheffield architect Hadfield Cawkwell Davidson, Manchester development consultants NHR and chartered surveyors and Manchester planning specialists Turley Associates to work on the stadium scheme.

awhp2.png

Despite the progress made in 2008 by Seddon, Sainsbury’s and their partners, with Everton neck-deep in the now called-in Kirkby debacle and Cllr Warren Bradley’s refusal to entertain the prospect of building on park land, Sainsbury’s eventually withdrew their interest in Walton Hall Park.

“Mr Seddon came to see me about the possibility of Sainsbury’s building on Walton Hall Park,” explained Cllr Bradley in 2008.

“I am against any proposal to build on parks but we could talk about the Longmoor Lane industrial estate just at the back.

“Sainsbury’s came to the table but obviously Everton have to be there as well. But if Kirkby is refused Everton will come back to the table and, presumably, Sainsbury’s. I assume a bidding war will start then with Tesco, and if Everton came to us and said we want to discuss something the council would be happy to facilitate that.”

Meanwhile a Sainsbury’s spokesperson said: “We are not progressing these plans at this time, but if there are opportunities that are viable for a new store we would always consider them.”

Fast forward six years and it is clear Liverpool City Council, its planning department and its leader, Mayor Joe Anderson, have put in place the mechanisms for a regeneration programme for Walton Hall Park with a new stadium for Everton Football Club as the catalyst.

And while the club itself is remaining coy, claiming the plans are in a ‘very, very early, embryonic stage,’ Mayor Anderson was this week more forthcoming on his vision for both the Walton Hall Park area and the role to be played by Everton FC:

“I am really pleased that we have identified this exciting opportunity for North Liverpool. We know that this is an area of the city that requires substantial investment and this project could bring this in a unique form,” said Anderson.

“Everton’s investment into this area would be the catalyst for a development which could make a real difference. We know from other regeneration schemes that opportunities like this can lead to significant economic and social benefits. This scheme would generate significant new job opportunities and also address important social needs such as health and education.

efcroddy-560x225.jpg

Goodison Park by Roddy Munro

“We also see this as an opportunity to create an outdoor space with first-class leisure and recreational facilities that will really appeal to the local community. This is a starting point for something which could be a real game changer for this part of the city.”

Despite Everton FC’s reticence to be more forthcoming with any concrete detail, the Liverpool Echoreported both the club and the Council have been in discussions about the proposed Walton Hall Park development for more than three years.

While Everton FC chief executive Robert Elstone was particularly vague, claiming: “We are delighted to be the conduit for the council’s commitment to enhancing the outlook of the residents of North Liverpool.”

The suspicion has to be the proposed Walton Hall Park redevelopment and the prospect of a new home for Everton Football Club is further down the line than the current ‘partners’ are as yet willing to disclose.

Meanwhile, as Mayor Joe Anderson claimed a planning application could be submitted ‘within the year,’ both supporters of the club and North Liverpool residents await more detail of the scheme with baited breath.

Edited by tenaciousj
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MikeO Grand Master

MikeO

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Posted

Is anyone else feeling a bit torn about this - wanting to go to make the club a bigger force but tied to Goodison like a family member who has been there through good, bad and hard times?

Very much so, it'll be very painful to move from the old lady no matter how much sense it makes.

 

Imagine watching Goodison demolished; will be heartbreaking.

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Matt Grand Master

Matt

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You really do not get it. After all this time as well. :(

I get it perfectly - you're only here on the wind up because you don't have an answer to any question thats put to you.

 

The idea of having it in the city centre is an excellent idea. Based on the sketch in the link, and going back to your only real point that you've constantly repeated; James Street is a 20 mins walk, Central 5 mins, Lime Street local and Intercity (opening up the transport possibilities to the rest of the country, great for home and away fans alike) are across the road, Queens square bus station round the corner, plenty of paid parking.

 

Then theres the additional tourist attraction in the city centre, the masses of local business that would boom because of the additional visitors....

 

The only negative I can foresee is that it would be a real pain in the ass getting it set up.

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Guest John Burns

Guest John Burns

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I get it perfectly - you're only here on the wind up because you don't have an answer to any question thats put to you.

 

The idea of having it in the city centre is an excellent idea. Based on the sketch in the link, and going back to your only real point that you've constantly repeated; James Street is a 20 mins walk, Central 5 mins, Lime Street local and Intercity (opening up the transport possibilities to the rest of the country, great for home and away fans alike) are across the road, Queens square bus station round the corner, plenty of paid parking.

 

Then theres the additional tourist attraction in the city centre, the masses of local business that would boom because of the additional visitors....

 

The only negative I can foresee is that it would be a real pain in the ass getting it set up.

You must be on the wind up. If you want to kill the city centre and lower its status then stick a big high concrete and steel lump of a stadium, looking like a nuclear power station, amongst the shops, bars and restaurants that will be used about 50 days of the year at most. Also, retail sales will be killed on those days, except for programmes and scarfs. People will avoid the centre on matchdays. On non-matchdays stadia are soulless. EFC and LFC have killed the districts of Anfield and parts of Walton over 100 years. The centre will be killed within months. The retailers will fight tooth and nail to stop such madness. Putting a stadium on St.John's market may actually be good by default not design, as the shops and entertainment would migrate to the waterfront docks giving Liverpool a greater water aspect, leaving that part of town dead.

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Guest John Burns

Guest John Burns

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Dont think its that bad, just incredibly impractical. Don't want it though :D

 

I still really wanted something similar to what was proposed to Barca several years ago:

 

http://www.cnplus.co.uk/news/images-barcelona-fc-stadium-at-sea-plans/5205577.article#.VBhG0FBJPIY

 

Obviously into the Mersey instead. Idea I had was to link up with the group who want a hydro electric plant in the mouth of the river (because its one of the most powerful tides in the world apparently), but it was always going to be a pipe dream (might've mentioned it once or twice!) :)

Building a barrage from New Brighton to Bootle has many advantages in power generation, keep the Mersey estuary at permanent high water enabling ships to be berthed in and out of the docks, leisure craft is easily accommodated, a rail link to the Wirral, etc. Having a stadium on it means it can only be accessed from two ends. OK I am sure the Mersey ferries could shift a substantial number of fans. A large station under the stadium is essential and fans can mainly get there by Merseyrail direct into the stands. But the big problem is that the location is subject to very high winds, so it must have a retractable roof. Access from the land along the barrage wall would need to be protected from the harsh weather. Overall I like it but not as easy as it might first appear.

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Guest John Burns

Guest John Burns

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I see the Lard Mayor is firmly interested in Walton Hall Park and the Council are backing EFC. Joe needs to realise that the eastern section of the Merseyrail Outer Loop, which skirts the eastern part of the park, needs opening. I don't think he does, EFC are aware that is why they chose the site after the issues of transport after Kirkby. He needs to prepare the city for the Commonwealth Games and an Olympics in the future. Mass transport is essential for such tournaments - your will not get the Olympics without it, so bye, bye Manchester. I am sure Joe will not think of these things, worrying about the grey Radio Merseyside vote not the future of the city.

Edited by John Burns
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Matt Grand Master

Matt

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You must be on the wind up. If you want to kill the city centre and lower its status then stick a big, high concrete and steel lump of a stadium, looking like a nuclear power station, amongst the shops, bars and restaurants that will be used about 50 days of the year at most. Also, retail sales will be killed on those days. On non-matchdays stadia are soulless. EFC and LFC have killed the districts of Anfield and parts of Walton over 100 years. The centre will be killed within months. The retailers will fight tooth and nail to stop such madness. Putting a stadium on St.John's market may actually be good by default not design, as the shops and entertainment would migrate to the waterfront docks giving Liverpool a water aspect, leaving that part of town dead.

I'm not at all on the wind up. I'm also not saying I prefer a site in the city centre, but I do think its an excellent proposal i.e. theory.

 

I recognize the concerns of replacing St Johns, but to say it would kill city centre?! Thats just ludicrous. The current areas around Goodison and Anfield cannot be compared. They are not in the city centre, they are not massive retail estates nor massive tourist attractions. The city centre is already sustainable and thriving, Goodison and Anfield were established so long ago that there was no sustainability plan, that would not be allowed now. On non-match days the stadium can be souless, unless you invest in a museum, shops, stadium tours, corporate events, concerts etc, something that is a must no matter the location.

 

I wouldn't blame the retailers fighting for their lively hood either. I'd probably end up supporting them.

 

Since we have no idea what design is being proposed, whos to say the stadium would look like a power station? It could be anything from an eyesore to a masterpiece (though going on the Kirkby sketches, I understand the concern there)

 

Anyway, I'll state again, it is an excellent proposal.

 

Building a barrage from New Brighton to Bootle has many advantages. Having a stadium on it means it can only be accessed from two ends. A large station under the stadium is essential and fans can mainly get there by Merseyrail direct into the stands. But the big problem is that the location is subject to very high winds. Access from the land along the barrage wall would need to be protected from the harsh weather.

The weather wasn't my biggest concern to be honest, it was more the docks being blocked. Anyway, its a pipe dream I had.

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Guest John Burns

Guest John Burns

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I'm not at all on the wind up. I'm also not saying I prefer a site in the city centre, but I do think its an excellent proposal i.e. theory.

 

I recognize the concerns of replacing St Johns, but to say it would kill city centre?! Thats just ludicrous.

 

 

A stadium will be huge. A stadium cannot be partially sunk into the ground as the tributaries of the old Lyver Pool (the Liverpool 1 centre is on it) run under the site. After high rains and high tides basements around Paradise St fill up - over 300 years ago boats berthed in Paradise St, the land was reclaimed. Liverpool needs to keep its human feel about it. I do not see a stadium in the centre being a tourist attraction, more a tourist put off. All aspects have to be carefully looked at - with lengthy legal battles from retailers, this idea is a non-starter. The influential English Heritage will hit then roof over this.

 

The weather wasn't my biggest concern to be honest, it was more the docks being blocked. Anyway, its a pipe dream I had.

The docks would be accessed via a number of large locks strung across the barrage. Access would be 24/7 as the lock are in the permanently deep channels not dependent on the tides, so ships do not have to wait at the Mersey bar for 12 hour waits for the tide making the port far more attractive with fast turn arounds. The port should expand increasing employment for sure. Post Panamax ships can be on the sea side of the barrage. All the dock gates can be left open 24/7 as the Mersey will be at high water permanently and ships berthed anywhere in the river. Ships can freely move from dock to dock 24/7 to load and unload.

 

The rail access across the barrage would need to be in a tunnel under the ship locks, built in into the barrage wall. I like it. I think it would work. The problem is the time to design, approve and construct and get the stadium/barrage up and running. The city of Liverpool needs an adventurous high profile idea like this, fulfilling many needs and functions.

Edited by John Burns
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Guest John Burns

Guest John Burns

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February 2014, Terry Leahy, Tesco's former CEO speaks to the Liverpool Echo. He says investors aren't interested because the club is seen as the "number two club in the city".

Man City were less than No.2 in Manchester. They had a shiny new stadium which attracted investors. EFC in an expandable stadium with top mass-transit transport connections to the stadium will get lots of interest. If big money takes over EFC and the club do well in the CL the stadium will expand to suit the fanbase.

Edited by John Burns
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