Stadium thread: Reprise edition

[Makis]

I know the Olympics are big. So how could Liverpool cope? Since the 1984 Olympics where the thing really blew off, the hosting cities have been much bigger (Athens metropolitan area has some 3,7 million people). There will be new countries vying for the games plus old ones that haven't had them in a long time. France, Germany, Italy. Even Spain will probably host them before GB. I would also expect that Poland and maybe Turkey will eventually get the games. Then there's Japan who haven't hosted the games since 1964, South Korea will have them again before GB. Then there are the quickly developing countries like India. China will have another crack before then. USA will have the games at least every 20 years from now on. Canada might also be interested. Mexico if they can stop the violence. And so on.

 

The more I think about it the more ridiculous the idea sounds. The city should start to prepare for something that might happen over 60 years from now (64 years between London Olympics), but probably won't? Even if stadiums and arenas were built they would be outdated long before the games so they would need to be rebuilt. And until then they would be way too big for Liverpool so would just cost a fortune on taxpayer money.

[MikeO]

I know the Olympics are big. So how could Liverpool cope? Since the 1984 Olympics where the thing really blew off, the hosting cities have been much bigger (Athens metropolitan area has some 3,7 million people). There will be new countries vying for the games plus old ones that haven't had them in a long time. France, Germany, Italy. Even Spain will probably host them before GB. I would also expect that Poland and maybe Turkey will eventually get the games. Then there's Japan who haven't hosted the games since 1964, South Korea will have them again before GB. Then there are the quickly developing countries like India. China will have another crack before then. USA will have the games at least every 20 years from now on. Canada might also be interested. Mexico if they can stop the violence. And so on.

 

The more I think about it the more ridiculous the idea sounds. The city should start to prepare for something that might happen over 60 years from now (64 years between London Olympics), but probably won't? Even if stadiums and arenas were built they would be outdated long before the games so they would need to be rebuilt. And until then they would be way too big for Liverpool so would just cost a fortune on taxpayer money.

 

You forgot Helsinki .

[Makis]

Helsinki was in 1952 when the Olympics were much smaller. There were less than 5000 taking part and less than half the events. Tourism was miniscule and number of reporters much smaller. Turning point were the 1984 Olympics in LA. Up til then the games had been expensive to the host cities (for instance Montreal in 1976 made a big loss) so there was a shortage of host candidates. Yanks turned the thing into a profit-churning operation and since then this has not been a problem. On the contrary.

[Guest John Burns]

Liverpool could host the Olympics being the host city of a "North West" games. Liverpool has the in-place, and mothballed transport infrastructure. The city will have enough hotel accommodation.

 

The committee only want cities that have the prime facilities in place, or can deliver them in time, after the touch and go of Athens and now Rio. And the amateurish games given at Atlanta. It is now not a round robin affair of countries or cities. London was told to reapply as they could get the games back soon. Accommodation and mass transit transport is vital. The North West with Liverpool as the host city (Liverpool is a well known and liked city in the world) could easily deliver as the prime core elements would be there. Rail transport, the Liverpool-Manchester fast electric trains start up in few weeks and the Northern Hub will be in place by then. Hopefully Liverpool will have a direct HS2 link. Accommodation will be excellent and liners can berth at the Pier Head to give further accommodation. Two airports available. A site complex in place (to be chosen of course) with three stadia (inc Tranmere), and an Arena. Also the two Manchester stadia for events like football. The Velodrome at Manchester. Chester for the likes of archery (which was "well" attended in London) and boating. North Wales for yachting. All tickets for all events were sold in 2012.

 

It is well within Liverpool's reach and the Central Docks will be up and running by that time. It will be in the medium term, but the city needs vision and act upon it.

Edited September 25, 2014 by John Burns

[Makis]

I'm not going to argue about this any more. It's not going to happen in my lifetime.

[Guest John Burns]

I'm not going to argue about this any more. It's not going to happen in my lifetime.

I am afraid you may be right. But what a lost opportunity.

Edited September 26, 2014 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

Chelsea are negotiating to share Twickenham for a year while they add only 13,000 to Stamford Bridge. They now can't build a new stadium at Battersea. Spurs are wanting to share MK Dons for year or two for the same reasons. Twics holds 86,000, Chelsea will rarely fill it, but 60,000 will be common. It can see it will be filled only for "some" London derby games and against Liverpool and Man U. So on a normal Saturday with Chelsea playing, the residents of Twickenham will suffer less than when the England RU team play.

 

Chelsea are only putting in an extra 13,000 fans at Stamford Bridge. Like Liverpool's tart up of Anfield, a lot of cost for so little. Chelsea would be better to negotiate a permanent share with the RFU as Twickenham is hardly used. Chelsea could pay to uprate the facilities, corporate and all. The stadium could do with a retractable roof and there is space around the stadium for supports. Let's hope this comes about. Footy needs quality stadia. I doubt the snob minded rugby fans would have it. They were up in arms when it was suggested England RU and England FC share Twickers. BTW, Twickenham has a multi-platform mass-transit station nearby, which is still not good enough to shift fans fast enough.

Edited September 30, 2014 by John Burns

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/robert-elstone-reveals-latest-new-8125450

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/robert-elstone-reveals-latest-new-8125450

 

Sounds quite positive really. No mention of how it's going to be funded though, which is the big stumbling block.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2014/11/exclusive-walton-hall-park-stadium-designs-done/

[Romey 1878]

http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2014/11/exclusive-walton-hall-park-stadium-designs-done/

 

Still just crossing my fingers it's a better design than the cheap and nasty thing they came up with for Kirkby.

[paul]

 

Still just crossing my fingers it's a better design than the cheap and nasty thing they came up with for Kirkby.

 

I don't hold out much hope either.

 

I reckon it'll be crap but they'll be the pics of the outside all shiny and metallic looking and everyone will fall for it and say it's great.

[markjazzbassist]

I could care less what it looks like. As long as it has tons of corporate boxes for money making and a good atmosphere that's all that matters.

[Hafnia]

Can we get an element of professionalism on this from the club pleaseeeeee

[Makis]

Are you kidding? They still employ the same Chris Potts whose CV includes King's Dock and Destination Kirkby...

[MikeO]

Are you kidding? They still employ the same Chris Potts whose CV includes King's Dock and Destination Kirkby...

 

But he's just a planning consultant I think, not an architect, so he'll have little to do with what it looks like. And anyway, Kings Dock was brilliant at the design stage imo.

 

http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/kings-dock.jpg

[paul]

 

But he's just a planning consultant I think, not an architect, so he'll have little to do with what it looks like. And anyway, Kings Dock was brilliant at the design stage imo.

 

http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/kings-dock.jpg

 

The fact it is good on the outside just said to me that it was not designed to be able to expand!

 

However I wonder if they seriously ever had any intention of doing it like that, if they were struggling to finance it wouldn't they have knocked money off from the fancy exterior design and generally lowered the spec of the design? They couldn't if the spec was already low though could they?

[Paddock]

We still don't have a pot to piss in with regards to building this. IF this goes the way of the other two attempts at a new ground I'm going to be seriously pissed off that no lessons have been learned from the past two debacles.

[Hafnia]

We should be getting a stadium which is amongst the best in terms of accessibility - catering (pint turnover/service etc), views,

 

No excuses, enough of these have been built now - we know what good looks like.

[Cornish Steve]

pint turnover

 

Is this the metric used to gauge fan satisfaction at the ground?

[Hafnia]

 

Is this the metric used to gauge fan satisfaction at the ground?

 

I look at it as simple as this:-

 

15 minutes to get served and drink beer.... 10 minutes to get served = most of the crowd don't bother. I reckon we lose approx £60k in profits per home game just at half time alone versus the efficiencies they have in places like old trafford. £1.2m per year alone on archaic bar service.

 

You would get more fans in early on too if service and price was better in the stadium.

[pete0]

At Bolton they pre pour beer and have extra stations at half time. The fans use beer tokens which speeds the process up too. Would be easily emulated at the old lady.

[MikeO]

At Bolton they pre pour beer and have extra stations at half time. The fans use beer tokens which speeds the process up too. Would be easily emulated at the old lady.

 

Sure I've seen pre-poured beer at Goodison, that's one of the reasons that I rarely partake (never know how long it's been sitting there), along with a dislike of drinking out of plastic. Have to say though that at half-time at the Southampton game (when Matt volunteered to nip down early and get them in) I was pleasantly surprised at how decent the Chang tasted. Normally at mass catering events in my experience the beer's dreadful. Was quite good at the Millennium Stadium as well now I think about it, maybe my prejudices are outdated .

[Sibdane]

 

Sure I've seen pre-poured beer at Goodison, that's one of the reasons that I rarely partake (never know how long it's been sitting there), along with a dislike of drinking out of plastic. Have to say though that at half-time at the Southampton game (when Matt volunteered to nip down early and get them in) I was pleasantly surprised at how decent the Chang tasted. Normally at mass catering events in my experience the beer's dreadful. Was quite good at the Millennium Stadium as well now I think about it, maybe my prejudices are outdated .

I actually had a Chang beer at a Mongolian restaurant recently. I actually quite enjoyed how smooth it was. Went and bought a six pack a week later and felt the same.

 

I'm a fan.

Edited November 22, 2014 by TonkaRoost

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/walton-hall-park-campaigners-vow-8344662?

[golfyboyae]

Feel compelled to comment on new stadium proposal.Became an exiled Blue in 1972,left Deeside to join RAF,first taken to Goodison Park age 7 by Dad 1961!!Played decent stuff,involved in professional game,top class other sports.

But Blue,always.

500,000 Blues in UK iam told,can believe it.

For decades been going to Goodison Park when i could,some years most games home.Many years away.

Goodison Park is over.

Most of the best seats are in the hands of families,Blues who have had them decades!!!

Full house almost today v Stoke.

What a crap experience that would have been for 15,000!!! Most games of 32,000 plus youd struggle to get 2/3/4 seats together ect ect ect.

The 30,000,regular,solid attendees great!!Blues through through.

But if we had 60,000 seats,or 40,000 seats and a new Glady's Street with 20,000 standing places like "The Yellow Wall" Borussia Dortmond (25,000)Amazing.

Those lucky Blues who have managed to have been close enough to attend all home games,be season ticket holders (for decades,mates in a row!! Groups!!!

Great,you have your Blue World,sorted.

 

But lets get real,the future is 50,000/60,000 and we have tap into the Exiles,those Blues who would turn up at a fantastic new stadium.

(Great article about stadiums that create Noise,designed to maximise the home fans intimidating noise,for the fans experience,the hairs on ya neck raised.

Everton FC.does have a 50,000/60,000 fan base,more.

But the club itself has to recognise it,accept why so many die hard fans "DONT EVEN TRY" to get to games anymore.

The core fan base is 28,000/32,000 were ok jack,stuff those who havent got a decent chance of a decent seat with mates,family together.

 

So if the club will only wake up smell the coffee and tap into what they have.

 

But they are going to have to reach out to 20,000/40,000 Blues who would make 30/50/70% of home games.Those not even being The Derby,Utd,the so called big games.

I support the belief Everton can have 50,000 average within two three seasons and beyond.

But the club have to re engage with those 15,000/20,000 exiled,disaffected Blues who have been locked out for a couple of decades.

So come on Everton FC lets have a stadium befitting such a great club.

The best design features of Juventus,Dortmond,Bilboa.

But "Unique to Everton".

"The words in Kevin Costner's film.Field of Dreams.

"Build it and they will come".But make sure we can expand it easily to 55,000/60,000.

But ask for 20,000standing places at the back of the goal.The new Glady'sStreet.

 

Rant over.

Wonder if the CEO reads these

[Paddock]

I've had good seats for years but I don't think that at all. I want more people to go and I certainly don't think stuff all those who haven't got one either!!

 

A new ground built should mean current season ticket holders get their seats as close as they were to Goodison in thenew ground, if they don't like them firstchoice on new ones. And why shouldn't they, it's their support and hard earned cash they've ploughed into the clubs for years or in some cases decades.

 

Stupid argument to be honest. It's not their fault you couldn't go so now you can their loyalty should just be fucked off to suit you now you can.

 

Behave yourself will you. What a ridiculous statement to make.

 

I hope we move, I hope everyone can get tickets but when we do I want mine front row by half way line like they are now and have been for years and why shouldn't I!!

[Shukes]

I don't think he means it that way Paddock mate.

I think he was trying to point put that there are lots of fans who will turn up if there is space.

If you don't hold a season ticket it is difficult to get four seats together so you and your friends can go.

 

The potential is there for a new stadium and we do have the fan Base. We just need the club to realise this.

[golfyboyae]

Paddock, i meant exactly what Shukes has seen in my comments.Respect to all the 26,500 or season ticket holders (i think it might be a few more)."Thank you,"from all the exiled Blues.

Dont panick,i for one will be voting for you and everyone of the 26500 to get as good a seat,BETTER seat/seats than you have now.

But my point is we have the potential to have 50,000 season ticket holders."Fact".

The club need to wake up,realise what theve done"Not Done" for the past 25years.Even those over the Park messed up when they could have had 80,000 in with what they achieved on the pitch.

We can have 3x more great seats,meeting the expectation of the modern live match attendee.

Creating an atmospher like the Yellow Wall at Borrussia Dortmund is what we should be about doing.

Creating an experience,thats unbelievable in the new stadium.Nothing that sitting on ya arse watching "footy on the box" can compare to.

So lets not say 50,000.If they wake up 60,000.Designed to expand to 70/75000.

Ask for an end with the new safe standing design."Steep To" 20,000,10,000advance passes to the "End".10,000 pay on day.

ive been to the "Yellow Wall"(means in German "True Love".

Ya cant run around,cause agro cos of the design.Safer than seated fans standing.

 

Ok so why not ASK the fans to committ something,A Bit of debt like a morgage not cash,as good faith they'll buy season ticket.Bit like you lose ya house if ya dont pay each season if the ticket cant be sold.Or pay the debt.All you lose is ya seat,max £800.But we carry the ten year responsibility for a reducing debt after each season.

Radical,a bit like a £5000 debt if you dont cough up ya £800 a year.

Only a debt if you dont cough up.

 

NOT THE PRESENT SEASON TICKET HOLDERS THOUGH.WE KNOW THEY BE THERE.

ALSO IF THE PRESENT HOLDERS WANT LET THEM BUyAN EXTRA TICKET/SEAT FOR EACH ONE THEY HAVE NOW Alongside theirs.

DOUBLE THE HOLDERS TO 50.000 OVERNIGHT.

THE CLUB SHOULD RESERVE THE RIGHT TO SHUFFLE A BIT TO GET 2/3/4 SEATS TOGETHER AS WELL.

DO EVERYTHING AND MORE FOR THE PRESENT SEASON TICKET HOLDERS.

BUT TREAT THE PROBABLE,10,000/15000 and POTENTIAL further 10,000 over say two,three seasons even better.

Two tiers and steep with amazing noise,intimidating.60,000/65.000.

You can then allow a proper 10,000 a

[golfyboyae]

While iam at it i might as well say.One of the most important jobs if not most important for the club season ticket re allocation committe,(made up of season ticket holder reps,professional stadium operator expert,club seat manager).

When it eventually comes to it,and it will,will be allocation of season ticket seats."Oh my god how immotive,understandible.

But i see it as an amazing time.But those present holders,pairs,three,four blocks who had them decades,generations MUST BE TAKEN CARE OF.

Given the chance to increase their number to bring together their expended families who have sat apart for years.

They must be given the chance to design their own block.Exellent seats,but maybe not exactly where they have been."But close".

There will have to be compromise,trade offs,position for seats nexts to mates,extended family.The chance for more seats.

Those present holders who wish to have different positions,better positions.

 

Its going to have to be managed with consideration understanding.

But it xan and will be iam sure.

But why are we talking of only increasing capasity by 10.000.

That extra capasity will be taken immediatley with present season ticket holders taking a minimum of 5000/7000.

Those who have never bothered for decades.

5000/10,000.

We are immediately at 40,000,no capasity to develope more to 45,000/50,000

Sold out!!!!

So its easy to see 50,000 is to small.

By designing an away supporters area for 10,000,we would fill it,if we create a sprcial stadium.

"Proved"Borussia Dortmund have the largest capasity for away fans.

"The experience"facing the Yellow Wall as away fans.They come to help their side against the intimidating atmospher the total experience.

By not accomadating

Those who want to get in"The Club" are missing revenue on match days of conservatively maybe 15,000 fans=£10/12 million a season,also corporate revenue the same.

Over a ten year period say £150/£200million.

This is lost revenue based on 15000 more season tickets = to 40000,plus 10,000/15000 extra match day spectators. The revenue we have at present on 40,000 fans is considerable and could increase.

But why build a 50,000 seater it would just not meet the immediate demand.It needs to be 60,000/65,000.With modern safe standing design.

But hey ho,we got to sort out the team squad how we are playing, the manager has to adapt a little to Everton FC.

Iam not sure upstairs will give him the time if we lose the next two or three."Panick stations".Think Big!!!