Paddock Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 This is the problem with Martinez and the fans, no one wants him to swap penalty takers and everyone wants him to give some of the youngsters a chance we can not all be wrong I wonder if hes sat on Southport beach telling the tide what to do. He can do both. It's not fucking hard for him to do!! The only thing that ultimately matters is that the team wins. It breeds confidence and a winning mentality. That is what he is paid to do.. Get results. By all means play a youngster, tinker with the line up but we still have to win doing it and by taking Baines off the pens and (by the sounds of it) saying " whoever fancies it take it if we get one lads" is absolutely shocking. Piss poor management. Play a youngster, tweek a formation, try a player in an unfamiliar role but you have to have your core basics and you have to make sure that you are ruthless and clinical when you are presented opportunities like that. We won 1-0 so a lot of people are blasé about it but if we had drawn 0-0 or even worse lost 1-0 would most still be not arsed? It's half arsed management, it's disrespectful to the fans and to the opposing team almost like he's that arrogant we'll win anyway the penalty hardly matters. Well it fucking well does and West Brom is a perfect example of that. Ultimately no real damage done from the West Brom pen miss but I'm staggered at his attitude towards key moments like this in matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 The point is pad if he plays robles, besic, and garbut it does not weaken the team it gives invaluable experience for them and may save millions on next season changing penalty takers does weaken the team when is he going to plan for next season and don't anyone say we need to play our best team and finish as high as pos because playing those three would give us our highest position imo and when he dabbles with penalty takers he is jeopardising our league position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 The point is pad if he plays robles, besic, and garbut it does not weaken the team it gives invaluable experience for them and may save millions on next season changing penalty takers does weaken the team when is he going to plan for next season and don't anyone say we need to play our best team and finish as high as pos because playing those three would give us our highest position imo and when he dabbles with penalty takers he is jeopardising our league position. Crusty you need to re read my posts, I'm in total agreeance with you. Play the fringle players or younger players but keep the core dynamics of the side. Don't just tell them to hit a penslty if they feel "goid" about it. The team should be coming out with a set of instructions that they should be shit scared of not following otherwise we stop being a team snd become s group of players . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 I think it comes down to Baines aswell. He doesnt ooze confidence as a feature of his personality. He is pushed off set pieces easily and now penalties. Baines also needs to grow a pair and step up, since his miss as United im not sure he even wants them... We dont know what goes on behind the scenes but if Baines isnt stepping up, we cant get into Martinez for it. Im glad Ross stood up and wanted to take control, even more happier he didnt shy away from the ball after it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 point taken Pad its been a long day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 That has to be one of the stupidest statements I've seen written here!! Baines is the penalty taker if we were 4-0 up I could half understand it but at 0-0 and the West Brom fiasco no way should the penaltiesbe passed around. Do you think it's just a kick about in the park of a Sunday? It's a premier league game in a professional football game, you don't just fuck about trying things out for a laugh there has to be structure, there has to be discipline, there has to be continuity and there has to be respect for the fans who pay to watch. It has absolutely nothing to do with giving the kids a chance it happened at West Brom and cost us 2 points it happened again yesterday, it's an absolute disgrace that Martinez just shrugs his shoulders and says "oh well" don't worry about the penalty and it has A LOTto do with the way we've gone this season. It's sloppy, shoddy and amateur behaviour and if it carries on we'll continue to slide down the table like we have been. A football team needs a leader, it needs a manager who is feared and respected to be succesful otherwise you become a GROUP of players and not a TEAM of players Then why have so many insisted we play unproven youngsters in these final games? The exact same logic. For the record, I've made clear elsewhere that we should NOT be using games to experiment right now because millions depend on our final position. I'm simply pointing out the inconsistency of people's arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/im-glad-ross-barkley-missed-9076533 What the flying fuck is he talking about now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Sometimes I think things come out of his mouth before his brain registers what he's saying. The best yet is "I'll get you in the champions league" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/im-glad-ross-barkley-missed-9076533 What the flying fuck is he talking about now? Read it again. It makes sense. He's saying once you know we've won he'd prefer Barkley to go through the experience of missing a penno and being confident in the game, not letting it bother him I agree, the lad will be immense next year. Edited April 20, 2015 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Phenomenal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/im-glad-ross-barkley-missed-9076533 What the flying fuck is he talking about now? I'm absolutely speechless our manager could come out with stuff like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Chaps, stop reading headlines. It's the red echo. Read between the "". He is basically saying in retrospect its better for his development that he missed the penalty as he has the experience of doing so, and he didn't shrink afterwards. Basically he is saying "if you could have guaranteed 3 points I would sooner Ross missed the penalty as it would help develop him" Far too much knee jerk shit going on. Yes he can spout shite, but put the pitch forks away. Matt, Cornish Steve and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'm with Haf on this one. Martinez comes out with some right shite and when I read the headline I was seething, but after clicking on the article and reading what he said it's really not that bad. I just think he hasn't worded what he meant very well; English isn't his first language remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'm with Haf on this one. Martinez comes out with some right shite and when I read the headline I was seething, but after clicking on the article and reading what he said it's really not that bad. I just think he hasn't worded what he meant very well; English isn't his first language remember. Romey how can he be glad he missed it. If anything next time he has to take one he'll be shitting it and if we miss out on 9th or 10th on goal difference (it's really tight) then a million pounds pissed down the drain. He should never be glad any opportunity is missed like that. Successful teams are ruthless mate, there's no room to be nice or blasé about missing opportunities. All the top teams take chances like that or if they don't they're furious with themselves for missing such a good opportunity. It pisses me off the way he tries to take positives out of everything, not everything is positive. He needs to get mean and greedy, he needs to be telling the players it's NOT acceptable to miss chances like this in games , drumming it into them that when these opportunities arise they have to be clinical and ruthless and more do he should not take Baines off the pens. Do you think any player taking a pen for us from here on in is going to be overly arsed if they miss? Players have to fear their manager but respect him as well. I get the feeling ours look at him like a funny older uncle who no matter what they do will make excuses for them and tell them not to worry about it. It's this attitude Martinez has brought in that I think is mostly to blame for our slide. Look at Baines comments that Lennon shamed them into working harder in training. Why aren't they training as hard as they can anyway? Because Mr Nice Guy is probably not that arsed. We don't drill corners or set pieces either defensive or attacking and he just lets anyone take a pen if they feel like it removing probably the best pen taker in the prem of his duties. Mit's sloppy Romey and it's a slippery slope when you lose discipline and respect of players. Maybe that's why Eto'o stood up to him and Mirallas was acting up because they look at him and think "what the fuck is this fella on" Not saying that's the reason but it's a possibility. This flippant attitude towards basic but integral parts of leadership is piss poor in my opinion and the more I think about it the more convinced I am it's contributed massively to our downfall this season. Even the pre season preparations where sloppy and amateur almost like he wasn't really arsed about it just sort a couple of friendlies and we'll take it from there then bleated on about fitness levels. Pisses me right off. Gwlad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'll say it again; I don't think he worded it the way he intended. He's not glad he missed the penalty, but is glad that after the miss he responded in a positive way. Matt and Deacs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 He said Im happier that he missed it rather than score it" I get what you're saying but I don't think anything has been said wrong. I know he said it only because we won but that's what I'm saying, he shouldn't be happy that we miss an opportunity like that not ever in my eyes. It's a stupid thing to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 The way I see it is this:- Martinez is on a hiding to nothing with some fans. Missing a penalty is like getting a treble bogie in golf or knocked down in a boxing match. If you can show the strength of character to put it behind you and do well afterwards it will make a tougher competitor. Take Anthony Joshua - he is not going to develop or be in a position to face a top 10 boxer till he has been tested, till he has been put on the back foot and had to dig deep - maybe even knocked down. Does that mean Eddie Hearn wants him to take a pasting? No. He will want him to win but do so by learning, Ross will be a better player for that miss, its behind him, we got the 3 points and in doing so he was able to demonstrate strength of character not to hide. The poor lad has had to play under some ridiculously harsh fan criticism this year and he managed to have the strength to take a penno, miss it and carry on showing courage.... Some predicted relegation, that we wouldn't win enough games blah blah blah, RM's lost the dressing room, he can't adapt - that hasn't happened thankfully. 5 games unbeaten now and he is still getting flamed. The fella can't win. The fact remains, he gave us our top points finish in the Prem, a great season, a good run in Europe, he's been tested and shown resiliance that many doubted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 “Once you win and can look back at that incident, I’m happier he missed it rather than scored because as an experience it doesn’t get any better than wanting to take the responsibility, wanting to score in front of the Park End,” he said. “And then his performance from that point on was like someone who has been playing at this level for his whole career. “He is only 21 and I was extremely impressed in the manner that he took responsibility, working for the team, doing his job, showing for the ball. “The bravery of Ross Barkley is to get on the ball and always be available. I think we have got a better player after that display because of the experience of the penalty.” Here is the full transcript for anyone that needs to not read headlines. Personally I think he has it spot on, unless we want him to slam Barkley for taking the penno, slam him for missing it and having the audacity to want the ball after doing so. Roll back a few years to when after having had a great game against QPR another one against Huddersfield, Barkley had a mad 10 minutes against Blackburn and was taken off. Confidence totally shot as a result, and we didn't really see him after that as Moyes didn't trust him. Barkley plays well when a manager shows faith in him - some players need an arm round their shoulder and he is one of them. This last year he has been slated by a dinosaur of an England manager who thinks Javier Mascherano has been a better player than Ronaldo and Messi. He has been subject to groans and insults for not making forward passes when his confidence and the teams confidence was low. Martinez is doing a good job in trying to build the lads confidence up, simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 No, I think what Martinez meant (not put very well) was that he now knows not to let Barkley take penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Then why have so many insisted we play unproven youngsters in these final games? The exact same logic. For the record, I've made clear elsewhere that we should NOT be using games to experiment right now because millions depend on our final position. I'm simply pointing out the inconsistency of people's arguments. if you read my quote im not asking for unproven youngsters but I am asking for change I don't see robles besic and garbut as weakening the team I see it as pushing on for next season after this seasons performance do you really see resting Howard, Barry and Baines as a backward step ? to follow your logic we start next season where we left off, this absolute disaster. it might just save us 5 mil on a keeper or midfielder. Edited April 20, 2015 by seve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I agree with Haf on it. I think I said earlier that the biggest positive from the game was Barkley after the penny. He and Lukaku will be class next season. I also think Martinez has sacrificed some of the "pretty" football and got us to scrap and scrap well. Hafnia and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Just chatted to a lad in work who wants Martinez gone, very interesting verbally discussing as opposed to forum posting. The feeling I get is that "something just doesn't fill him with confidence that he is the right manager" - nothing specific, just meh. He said the brand of football is boring, but he also said he was bored under Moyes. Is this more of a case of many fans accepting that without "real money" we are destined for average here there and everywhere. Is martinez just another manager who will hit a glass ceiling and in general fans are just bored???!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 if you read my quote im not asking for unproven youngsters but I am asking for change I don't see robles besic and garbut as weakening the team I see it as pushing on for next season after this seasons performance do you really see resting Howard, Barry and Baines as a backward step ? to follow your logic we start next season where we left off, this absolute disaster. it might just save us 5 mil on a keeper or midfielder. If we start next season with thirteen points from the first five games I'd be delighted. Deacs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Just chatted to a lad in work who wants Martinez gone, very interesting verbally discussing as opposed to forum posting. The feeling I get is that "something just doesn't fill him with confidence that he is the right manager" - nothing specific, just meh. He said the brand of football is boring, but he also said he was bored under Moyes. Is this more of a case of many fans accepting that without "real money" we are destined for average here there and everywhere. Is martinez just another manager who will hit a glass ceiling and in general fans are just bored???!!! I was never bored under Moyes, I was usually stressed. Same with Martinez, though the possession football has always been a source of disdain for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 If we start next season with thirteen points from the first five games I'd be delighted.Sadly the season is not judged over the last 3 weeks as you well know my comments were about the season. but if your happy with this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Sadly the season is not judged over the last 3 weeks as you well know my comments were about the season. but if your happy with this season? Don't think anyone is happy with this season, but people recognise that it can be percieved as a learning season. If RM doesn't learn from his mistakes (primarily though Haf mentioned) and Improve then this season is a failure. If it's been an education and he learns from it, it's been a painful, yet positive, season. We'll see next year. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 No Europa next season "should" work in our favour. I'm expecting a minimum top 7 finish. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherpa Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 After a great first season he has now had a poor second and regardless of what any of us think or believe he will still be here next season, and barring an absolute disaster will carry on for the forseable future. I have been toing and frowing with my thoughts on him so often it has kept me awake at night!, will he take us down, is he the right manager, can he stop this stubborness and be more flexible are some of those thoughts. I do see a glimmer of light though as his approach seems to have changed slightly, we all know many of the reasons why we are in the position we find ourselves but I now truly believe that we and Martinez will benefit from the learning curve of this season. I then look at us and then look at the shite and think we won't have half the problems they will next season and fully expect us to be back in the top 6 again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 No Europa next season "should" work in our favour. I'm expecting a minimum top 7 finish. i am as well. I expect to qualify for Europe again next year, be it Europa or Champs League. The man said he would, so I'm holding him to it. Big offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Next season? 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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