Martinez - Direction?

[christiffa25]

I'm sure the only reason he's not been sacked is the fact bill and his merry men know a sale is imminent. Therefore bringing in a new man now, when new owners haven't picked him would be pretty pointless.

 

However, sale or no sale, I think the luckiest manager in the PL has till the end of the season before he'll have to pack his bags!! Unfortunately for us !!

[Sibdane]

I still believe in Martinez -- we're scoring goals, Howard has been dropped, and he seems to have sorted the defense out for the most part, so I believe he's capable of evolving.

 

Now he just needs to work on his subs and a noticeable plan B.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-roberto-martinez-tony-pulis-10890564

[Blue 250]

Nail-on-head with that last paragraph.

 

Nah, 'nail-on-head'.......the whole thing !

[Kant]

West Brom were always going to play like that. No problem with the starting 11 but as soon as you could see it what they were upto it needed changing. Mirallas was the key to open the defence.

I love how some people always get it right after the game.

 

WBA is one of those teams that, if you manage to break the lock, the goals flow and they get tonked easily. If you don't, it is hard as nails as the players get impatient. Of all the discussions we have had on previous games, today we did not score because of the post and because it is actually hard for any team to break down 10 man in the box.

 

Another no. 10 on the team could help, though.

[Lowensda]

Been a premier league manager for over 6 years now. Cannot be classed as a 'young manager' anymore either.

 

Hasn't learnt in all that time. His football WILL work against 'open' teams, it doesn't work against opposition at home because they don't play expansive football. But to add to that, he does nothing about it anyway.

 

Tactically. I think he's dreadful. Whether that's him being stubborn or stupid.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Lowensda

[christiffa25]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-roberto-martinez-tony-pulis-10890564

Everything that's quoted by Martinez in that article explains exactly why we are like we are under him. It also explains why things will never change.

[nogs]

I'll return to facts. We are now a soft touch at home getting beaten by relegation fodder. Losing at home to WBA and Swansea under Smith wouldn't have been acceptable, the team would have got booed then. So why people want to make excuses for Martinez now is beyond me.

 

We will finish mid table, again, and that will mean Martinez has taken the club backwards since he took over. This was the season he had to show what he can do, he has failed and needs to be shown the door.

Edited February 15, 2016 by nogs

[Hafnia]

I don't think anyone is "making excuses" for martinez. I make excuses for no one when a lack of quality/professionalism costs Everton.

 

I believe establishing the criteria between "work in progress" and "enough is enough - get gone" is what is at debate.

 

He has a lot going for him, but his faults are costing him and overshadowing any good work.

[dlblue]

I don't think anyone is "making excuses" for martinez. I make excuses for no one when a lack of quality/professionalism costs Everton.

 

I believe establishing the criteria between "work in progress" and "enough is enough - get gone" is what is at debate.

 

He has a lot going for him, but his faults are costing him and overshadowing any good work.

 

Exactly. Some fans act like Martinez is doing nothing right at all. He has changed an aging squad, brought in some great young talent and is changing the way we play Football. It was never going to be seemless.

Therefore i don't think its as clear cut as saying its time to go, there is a bigger picture to look at.

 

People stuck by Moyes for 10 years and we basically stood still with a few highlights. At least with Martinez you can see what he is trying to build and create.

 

I hate seeing Managers sacked after a short time. You cant judge a manager after 2 years when so much needed changing at the club. He frustrates the life out of me at times but iv never seen us play so much great football either. Just my opinion.

[Lowensda]

Wasn't sure if this was posted.

 

[Hafnia]

Heres a few of my insights:-

 

Kone:- far better as a footballer than he is as a goalscorer, an ideal foil for a striker who isn't putting a shift in or a winger who is tired and lost his head. If he is on the pitch then its because other players aren't doing their job - but he will get the blame. He probably shouldn't be on the pitch - the fact that he is means that something is missing with the fundamentals. Thats doesn't mean he should have been on ahead of Mirallas - thats another issue which is starting to make Martinez look childish.

 

You are likely to see Kone if Gerry is "off it" or Lukaku is strolling around and the centre halves have lit a cigar and put their slippers on. Fans will go off their rockers because he is neither a goalscorer nor a winger - but he can hold up the ball and bring others into play - when that is the reason he is on the fans need to look further than the man with white hair to vent their anger.

 

Osman:- somehow this lad has become one of the worst footballers to wear an Everton shirt - well in the eyes of many, not mine. To me, again, if he is on the pitch then the basics are not being done very well. He has a cool head, he can pick a pass, he has experience.

 

 

Martinez is on very thin ice at the moment - people are throwing anything they can at him to sink him. I am far from happy at the impression he is giving out which is that of arrogance and to a degree "DEFIANCE" - I will remain as balanced as I can with him.

 

 

I hope that when the new owners come in they bring in a chief exec who is a ruthless results driven operator who has clear goals and high working standards. Maybe that will temper this defiance that we are seeing.

[Chach]

 

Exactly. Some fans act like Martinez is doing nothing right at all. He has changed an aging squad, brought in some great young talent and is changing the way we play Football. It was never going to be seemless.

Therefore i don't think its as clear cut as saying its time to go, there is a bigger picture to look at.

 

People stuck by Moyes for 10 years and we basically stood still with a few highlights. At least with Martinez you can see what he is trying to build and create.

 

I hate seeing Managers sacked after a short time. You cant judge a manager after 2 years when so much needed changing at the club. He frustrates the life out of me at times but iv never seen us play so much great football either. Just my opinion.

 

Agreed, and to think that there was people who wanted him sacked half way through last season, 6 months after arguably our best EPL campaign ever.

[chalkpie]

 

Agreed, and to think that there was people who wanted him sacked half way through last season, 6 months after arguably our best EPL campaign ever.

 

[raises hand]

 

Still do. We can do better.

[MC11]

 

Agreed, and to think that there was people who wanted him sacked half way through last season, 6 months after arguably our best EPL campaign ever.

Last season was our worst campaign in years. It was also the worst football I've ever witnessed at Goodison in my lifetime. The writing has been on the wall ever since

[Chach]

Last season was our worst campaign in years. It was also the worst football I've ever witnessed at Goodison in my lifetime. The writing has been on the wall ever since

 

Was our best run in Europe for years too though.

Still haven't heard any options of managers we could actually get who would be a big enough improvement to warrant starting again.

[Lowensda]

 

Was our best run in Europe for years too though.

Still haven't heard any options of managers we could actually get who would be a big enough improvement to warrant starting again.

 

Lucien Favre, again, would be my choice. IF Martinez was shown the door.

[Sibdane]

He hasn't been picked up yet? Seems like he's been missing for awhile.

[MC11]

 

Lucien Favre, again, would be my choice. IF Martinez was shown the door.

Heard other mention this guy. Apparently it's his tactics that would suit us more than anything. Solid defending relying on counter attacking football.

[MC11]

 

Was our best run in Europe for years too though.

Still haven't heard any options of managers we could actually get who would be a big enough improvement to warrant starting again.

"ANYBODY LIKELY TO FRESHEN IT UP"

[dlblue]

Last season was our worst campaign in years. It was also the worst football I've ever witnessed at Goodison in my lifetime. The writing has been on the wall ever since

 

Which led to the best football iv seen us play for a long time.

Freshening up an aging squad and instilling a different type of football on them isn't going to happen over night. 9 goals and 3 clean sheets before the WBA game which we should have won but to me teams like WBA are teams we will struggle against as we like to play football and they dont. The minute we lose the shouts of 'martinez out' start, its ridiculous. His subs frustrate me at times, but i do see that in some games we need to change the shape and not just the personnel.

[MC11]

 

Which led to the best football iv seen us play for a long time.

Freshening up an aging squad and instilling a different type of football on them isn't going to happen over night. 9 goals and 3 clean sheets before the WBA game which we should have won but to me teams like WBA are teams we will struggle against as we like to play football and they dont. The minute we lose the shouts of 'martinez out' start, its ridiculous. His subs frustrate me at times, but i do see that in some games we need to change the shape and not just the personnel.

GTFOH I've been shouting for Martinez out win lose or draw. It's when we get the odd win the woodlice come out....

[markjazzbassist]

 

Was our best run in Europe for years too though.

Still haven't heard any options of managers we could actually get who would be a big enough improvement to warrant starting again.

 

dude you must not be on here much we have a whole thread devoted to that very subject. it's in the same forum too, just down a few subjects.

 

http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/27682-if-martinez-goes-who-should-get-the-nod/

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Exactly. Some fans act like Martinez is doing nothing right at all. He has changed an aging squad, brought in some great young talent and is changing the way we play Football. It was never going to be seemless.

Therefore i don't think its as clear cut as saying its time to go, there is a bigger picture to look at.

 

People stuck by Moyes for 10 years and we basically stood still with a few highlights. At least with Martinez you can see what he is trying to build and create.

 

I hate seeing Managers sacked after a short time. You cant judge a manager after 2 years when so much needed changing at the club. He frustrates the life out of me at times but iv never seen us play so much great football either. Just my opinion.

People stood by Moyes because they could see a clear progression , he took an ageing squad that were perennial relegation candidates and turned them into a regular top 7 side

As soon as it was clear we were not going to break through the proverbial glass ceiling there were plenty of knives out for him

Roberto has done the exact opposite so it's little wonder that there is unrest

I said last season I would give him until Christmas and if nothing had changed he had to go.

Well for me a lot has changed, not enough granted.

Last season was probably the most disappointing season in modern history for us and we were playing the most dull and boring football I have ever witnessed, I still don't think the crowd has recovered from that and it plays a part for why Goodison is like a mourge these days

However he has got us playing some great stuff at times this season

I just think if the players and more importantly Roberto can learn from this season then with a little tweaking we can be a very good side next season . We are not a million miles away from being one now . We just need to turn those draws into wins

So personally I would say give him until next Christmas and if he is still neglecting the defensive side of our game then fair enough we need to get rid

Edited February 15, 2016 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[MC11]

We might be playing slightly better football but for me that has a lot to do with the calibre of player we have here and not so much the manager. Just look at his way of thinking this weekend... The sub.....WTF??

 

His first season we played with two out and out wingers pushed high up the field. There was success. We then get worked out and it takes the players themselves to ask to play a different way. The performances get better but the results dont.

 

I think main problem here is that Martinez will change when forced but will always revert back to his ideology in some form. For example dropping form players for his favourites.... Waiting for one slip or injury as a reason.

[MikeO]

We might be playing slightly better football but for me that has a lot to do with the calibre of player we have here and not so much the manager.

 

So who is responsible for the calibre of player we have? That's a, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" argument.

[MC11]

 

So who is responsible for the calibre of player we have? That's a, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" argument.

I think the response to that is pretty simple. There's a difference in being able to spot a player than actually putting one into a side and getting the best out of them. That's why there's scouts and managers. Edited February 15, 2016 by MC11

[MikeO]

I think the response to that is pretty simple. There's a difference in being able to spot a player than actually putting one into a side and getting the best out of them. That's why there's scouts and managers.

 

But you just admitted we're playing better football than last year, so if Roberto spots more gems in the summer and we play better again in 16/17.....then the same for 17/18 etc what are we risking losing if we get rid now? Is the sky not the limit?

[Hafnia]

Ffs this moyes bullshit again...

 

Howard, Baines, Jagielka Distin Coleman Gibson Osman (Hibbert - 89' ) Pienaar Fellaini Mirallas (Oviedo - 90' )28 Anichebe (Jelavic - 73' )

 

 

That was moyes last everton game. 4 first choice players in their last contracts before inevitable retirement. 3 players not good enough.

 

Basically he left us in a similar shape as Dalglish left liverpool when he did a runner first time round.

 

Martinez had to sell fellaini to work in the transfer market and look at what we have now. We were in serious trouble in terms of players ages and lack of funds.

 

I'm far from happy with his tactics and subs but seriously please stop talking about moyes like he's bill shankley.

[MC11]

 

But you just admitted we're playing better football than last year, so if Roberto spots more gems in the summer and we play better again in 16/17.....then the same for 17/18 etc what are we risking losing if we get rid now? Is the sky not the limit?

We are playing better football and still not getting results. When I say better football that I mean attacking.... Defensively we are a shambles and that's why I still maintain he piggy backed off Moyes back 4 in the first season. There will be no change next season. I'm more than convinced. We need fresh ideas.